Flat Tires Perspectives: an invitation

Chris Nolte

Well-Known Member
I also recommend the Tannus tire liners. They are new to the market but they are really making waves. They’re lightweight and perform really well.

I would also recommend sticking with a tire with some protection. The stock Rock Razors are specially made for R&M and they have puncture protection but if you’re riding on the street there is no reason to not go with the SupermotoX. Technically you could run them tubeless, but if you want the ultimate protection I would use them with the Tannus liners. We have many people riding them in NY with no liners and haven’t had issues, but the liners are a nice addition.
 

shadowfax

New Member
First off, Chris, thanx so much for the reply.

NEXT: a couple of pieces that might be of use to others....

So I've learned a lot about sealant: its very alive and there are many ways to play with it.

I had another flat recently (glass as usual puncturing a small hole in the rear tire). After the flat (and about 10 miles from home base), it took me awhile to get the sealant to plug the hole and carry 20lbs of pressure. At first it would only work at about 10lbs. My technique is to fill the tire up to 30psi and then put the hole at the lowest point downward allowing gravity and air pressure to work to my benefit. Once I've got some leakage, I rotate the "hole" out of the sealant pool and allow a couple minutes for it to dry. On this particular flat, it took four rounds until I could get the tire to hold 20psi (which--IMO--seemed like the minimum inflation for going downhill at 25mph).

Once home, it ended up losing all pressure and the tire was flat the next morning in my garage. I played with it (as above) but now had my compressor so I could experiment easily with 50psi iterations in terms of clearing the hole of old sealant (via high air pressure) and then getting a more "Stable Fill" followed by a 20 minute dry time. I was able to get a "fix" that has held 35psi and allowed me two 25 miles with some confidence. As a result of having to go 4 rounds on the ride, I realized I wanted to upgrade my (on the road) foot pump.


The new improved pump:

While internet searching for a new foot pump I found one with much improved PSI numbers over the one i have been previously using. My old one (which I have used successfully for a number of motorcycle riding years worked well, but was starting to be unstable at the base--the ground base wire was bent and not fitting perfectly anymore, and while easy to use, took a lot of pumps to get the last 10psi. It WAS kinda slick however, in that it had its own little bag and fit perfectly below the saddle and against the seat tube. (also, cost less than $20). URL below is for the new one. Once I found it, I wanted one, but the many places I looked were not in position for shipping to USA. Finally, I found it at KTM Powersports, when of course the Orange color all of a sudden made more sense...



Obviously costs more, and is quite a bit bigger (which surprised me when I opened the box), and means it no longer fits under my saddle. HOWEVER, its way better, for example, it has two modes (High Volume OR High Pressure). It kicks ASS in terms of getting to 20PSI. Then, as soon as you feel pressure resistance, you flip up the mini orange tab from the ground and it easily takes PSI to where ever you want. I can now duplicate compressor conditions on the road if I want--in terms of playing with the sealant.

Off the Wall Flat Tire Preventions:

Many years ago when I was a student and rode a bike 8 miles to and fro... I was plagued with flats for awhile. One of the things I tried (successfully) was "Tire Wipers".


I put one of these on my front tire but can't really report anything conclusive other than my recent flat was on the back.... statistically irrelevant. Once I take off my rear tire to start my Tannus experiment (thanks again Chris for the shove), I intend to mount the rear tire wiper off of the inside of the rear fender. I'm not terribly optimistic about these because the fitment to my large 2.35 tires could be much better. Years ago, the tire wiper fit to my thinner road bike tires visually (and mechanically) looked much better.

Finally (I am taking Chris's advice above), I've got a Tannus liner, and should get a SuperMoto tire in the next day or so. While I hate to go back to a Tube (because the original goal was to simply make it back to home base--which I now believe Sealant does admirably--but once back, I still need to face a loss of Trust in a sealant repair and do the labor to remove/reinstall the tire and do a tire patch plus add new sealant. Thus, I move forward (or back) to a Tube to get out of the Labor Component (my belt drive adds considerable time to the turnaround).

Based upon all of my flats being tiny pieces of glass that aren't even still in the tire rubber when I go looking, Tannus protection (15mm) Plus (the SuperMotos's) Greeenguard 3mm should be overkill for what's been plaguing me thus far.... If you don't hear from me for awhile it means "no-flats"!
 

shadowfax

New Member
I also recommend the Tannus tire liners. They are new to the market but they are really making waves. They’re lightweight and perform really well.

I would also recommend sticking with a tire with some protection. The stock Rock Razors are specially made for R&M and they have puncture protection but if you’re riding on the street there is no reason to not go with the SupermotoX. Technically you could run them tubeless, but if you want the ultimate protection I would use them with the Tannus liners. We have many people riding them in NY with no liners and haven’t had issues, but the liners are a nice addition.


So, I've given up on Sealant. Really happy that sealant got me home almost every time, but the combination of the G-One Speed/and sealant was not a good match for how much glass and thorns I was picking up. I've now gone 200 miles with no flats on my latest setup which follows Chris's advice above (with a small variation). I put the super motos on front and rear with the rear set up with the tannus armor while the front tire is matched with Mr Tuffy liners. Both liner systems took some time to figure out: how much air to use in tubes and what plastic tools were good for getting everything aligned. I'd rate the Tannus armor as excellent. Plenty of protection and light weight, though I will admit the ride is different now that I've added tubes and liners to a tire that is twice the weight of the G-ones. Performance is close enough especially given a sense of security that it would take some serious debris to now punch a hole in my tires...
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
So, I've given up on Sealant. Really happy that sealant got me home almost every time, but the combination of the G-One Speed/and sealant was not a good match for how much glass and thorns I was picking up. I've now gone 200 miles with no flats on my latest setup which follows Chris's advice above (with a small variation). I put the super motos on front and rear with the rear set up with the tannus armor while the front tire is matched with Mr Tuffy liners. Both liner systems took some time to figure out: how much air to use in tubes and what plastic tools were good for getting everything aligned. I'd rate the Tannus armor as excellent. Plenty of protection and light weight, though I will admit the ride is different now that I've added tubes and liners to a tire that is twice the weight of the G-ones. Performance is close enough especially given a sense of security that it would take some serious debris to now punch a hole in my tires...
Someone also mentioned elsewhere these:
But i have not tried them as the only puncture i have had with Super Moto-X's & Marathon Plus MTB's with plain tubes and no liners is a 3.5cm screw.
 

PaD

Well-Known Member
EVERYBODY ...Two words = TANNUS ARMOUR
Does this lining add a lot of weight to the tire/wheel? Did you experience any difference in how the bike handles?
I went from Specialized Trigger Sport,622-47, to Schwalbe Marathon Plus on my Vado and the bike lost a bit of its agility and rolling resistance increase a little.
 

David Berry

Well-Known Member
Region
Australia
City
Ipswich, QLD
Did you experience any difference in how the bike handles?
PaD …
On my Homage I run Schwalbe Marathon Plus MTBs (57–584) with 40 mm Flataway Kevlar liners glued to their insides. Between them and the Schwalbe tubes filled with Stan's sealant are the wouldn't-be-without Tannus Armours.

Tyres are pumped to 3 bars pressure which is quite hard, and the resulting ride is harsh on the body when bashing across puncture-inducing rocky terrain — 'path' is too kind a word to use for some sections of the rail trail — but gentle on the mind which is not preoccupied with impending flats.
… David
 
Last edited:

PaD

Well-Known Member
PaD …
— but gentle on the mind which is not preoccupied with impending flats.
… David
That’s a state of mind I prefer when going for a longer ride.
Feel safer already with the Marathon Plus but may look for something else ( a little better grip when off tarmac perhaps) to combine with Tannus for extended rides.
 

steve mercier

Well-Known Member
That’s a state of mind I prefer when going for a longer ride.
Feel safer already with the Marathon Plus but may look for something else ( a little better grip when off tarmac perhaps) to combine with Tannus for extended rides.
PaD You can safely run with a lower pressure with the Tannus inserts if you choose. I like the feel of them and a few grams extra weight matters little on an Ebike. You might like Smart Sam Plus tires with their medium knobs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PaD
D

Deleted member 4210

Guest
Why not bring a spare tube along and a simple C02 canister with filling adaptor ? You can temporarily use a tube on a tubeless to get yourself back home, and in an environment where you have your tools, a stand, etc to make it much easier to solve the original flat. Trying to make repairs in the field is not fun and can be time consuming. I can get a tire off,new tube in, and fill it in mere minutes. carry some good tire levers too. Hand air pumps are not fun to use either, and bulkier than a couple co2 refills.
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting going for a ride on the roads here today & tomorrow with the Smart Sam around corners, it's going to be 44 & 45 Celsius (111 & 113 for American Imperial folks) :)
How does tubeless sealant go in those kind of temperatures?
 

steve mercier

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting going for a ride on the roads here today & tomorrow with the Smart Sam around corners, it's going to be 44 & 45 Celsius (111 & 113 for American Imperial folks) :)
How does tubeless sealant go in those kind of temperatures?
At those temps you might want to go swimming instead.
 

PaD

Well-Known Member
Why not bring a spare tube along and a simple C02 canister with filling adaptor ? You can temporarily use a tube on a tubeless to get yourself back home, and in an environment where you have your tools, a stand, etc to make it much easier to solve the original flat. Trying to make repairs in the field is not fun and can be time consuming. I can get a tire off,new tube in, and fill it in mere minutes. carry some good tire levers too. Hand air pumps are not fun to use either, and bulkier than a couple co2 refills.
I’ve always carried a tube and tools and still do. I now have a decent little ”floorpump”, the Topeak Turbo Morph.
Never had any problems with turning my regular bike ( Gary fisher utopia) upside down to get wheels off easy. Now with an ebike with the display on the handlebars and extra weight it’s not so easy to turn the bike upside down.
Even if I upgrade my puncture protection I will bring tubes and tools.
 

shadowfax

New Member
I actually carry a tube and have my killer KTM foot pump and expect some day to fix a flat on my front tire (suspect its 10-15 minutes with my cool Aluminum spoons. However, I am not into dealing with the rear tire. I've got the electric gear changing setup with the Rohloff Hub.... and I'm happy to play around out of the sun in my garage and get the wheel alignment (and belt tension correct). This isn't going to be pleasant in heat next to a road in the dirt... BTDT (been there done that)! I'm feeling VERY secure with my tube armor (especially the Tannus). The Cost: definitely more weight and loss of "Feel", but my turning speeds and security in turns hasn't really changed. I'm riding on Super Moto's at 40lbs rear and 36lbs front and the feel is different but excellent. IMO
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
I actually carry a tube and have my killer KTM foot pump and expect some day to fix a flat on my front tire (suspect its 10-15 minutes with my cool Aluminum spoons. However, I am not into dealing with the rear tire. I've got the electric gear changing setup with the Rohloff Hub.... and I'm happy to play around out of the sun in my garage and get the wheel alignment (and belt tension correct). This isn't going to be pleasant in heat next to a road in the dirt... BTDT (been there done that)! I'm feeling VERY secure with my tube armor (especially the Tannus). The Cost: definitely more weight and loss of "Feel", but my turning speeds and security in turns hasn't really changed. I'm riding on Super Moto's at 40lbs rear and 36lbs front and the feel is different but excellent. IMO
Belt tension does not change when taking the rear off/on with my Manual Rohloff SuperCharger, should be the same for E14.
 

shadowfax

New Member
Wow! I'm gonna go take a LOOK right now at my Rear Assembly..... Hoping you're right!

I took a look: I could imagine popping the Quick Release and tugging the wheel down and out of its slot, but hard to imagine jamming it back in with the normal tension on the belt. The E14 instructions for REAR Tire removal clearly show that they want the two bolts which secure tension (on each side of the wheel) loosened in order to slide the sprocket slightly (reducing belt tension) and then pop the release to drop wheel. This also entails unscrewing the set-screws slightly in order to not beat up the set-screw threads while loosening the bolt which makes contact with the set screw.

when putting the rear wheel back on, the instructions again clearly show the reverse process: wheel on first (quick release) then sliding sprocket rearward with trail and error adjustment for correct re-tensioning...

Are we looking at different assembly's? (besides the plastic compartment which houses the electronics, and requires connecting and disconnecting a wire plug--which also maintains position with the use of a zip-tie.)
 
Last edited:

webcurl

Well-Known Member
Are we looking at different assembly's? (besides the plastic compartment which houses the electronics, and requires connecting and disconnecting a wire plug--which also maintains position with the use of a zip-tie.)
I don't think so, you have to be very careful of the E14 cable.
Got a photo that's perpendicular to the ground/belt line? My axle moves slightly forward when removing (lessening belt tension).
Try it, it's easier than with a chain, only need to worry about cable/gear mech and quick release!
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I swap out the tires on my Homage Rohloff with e14 regularly. No issue at all, The cable to the E14 mech is a 2 pin, waterproof plug & socket. about two inches out from the mech. Separate that first. Loosen the rear skewer, holding the tire up. Drop it just below the droppouts and let it move closer to the crank. Pull the belt off. Done. The only extra thing to do when putting it back on is to line up the mech so that it goes up the left side dropout. Remember to plug the E14 harness back in when everything else is back in place. Belt tension is done with a hex screw that moves the dropouts relative to the chain stays. No need to fuss with that in removing/replacing the wheel. No need for gloves or hand cleaner either ;)
 

E-Wheels

Well-Known Member
PaD …
On my Homage I run Schwalbe Marathon Plus MTBs (57–584) with 40 mm Flataway Kevlar liners glued to their insides. Between them and the Schwalbe tubes filled with Stan's sealant are the wouldn't-be-without Tannus Armours.

Tyres are pumped to 3 bars pressure which is quite hard, and the resulting ride is harsh on the body when bashing across puncture-inducing rocky terrain — 'path' is too kind a word to use for some sections of the rail trail — but gentle on the mind which is not preoccupied with impending flats.
… David
Hi David,
Have you noticed any variance in your average speed or battery range as a result of using the Tannus Armours