Full suspension with Belt drive - why ?

MaTar9000

Member
I just stumbled upon the review of a new bike on the EBR front page, seems like they have a belt drive with a rear suspension on their new model:

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byunbee

Well-Known Member

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
So I don't really understand the strong feelings some here seem to have around wanting a full suspension bike, at least for a commuter. Mountain bike I can understand, but I can't see taking something this heavy out to do any real mountain biking unless it's being used as an extremely low range dirt bike, and there are already great electric dirt bikes available for the same price or less.
Nevertheless I am guessing something like suspension on this would work, depending on if those who want such consider it to have enough travel.

I am pretty sure with that design there would be no stretch of the belt so it should work with one. I don't know if such a design is patented, if so pushkar might have to license or buy fames from them. Might cost to much but could be a path forward.

A beautifully integrated soft tail design with a Titanium frame... what's not to like? Just add a nice mid-drive and perfection will be achieved. ;)

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FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
so is that allowing frame to flex?

Yes... ;)

This insatiable quest is the origin and continued evolution of the Mountaineer YBB. The legendary Moots YBB micro suspension soft-tail design has 1-1/4” of pivotless rear travel to take the edge off small hits and not over complicate your life. With ample 29’’ tire clearance, 120mm travel fork, and a modern yet balanced geometry, the Mountaineer YBB continues to keep us hunting for new trails and the perfect new lines on our old favorites.
 

MaTar9000

Member
Yes... ;)

This insatiable quest is the origin and continued evolution of the Mountaineer YBB. The legendary Moots YBB micro suspension soft-tail design has 1-1/4” of pivotless rear travel to take the edge off small hits and not over complicate your life. With ample 29’’ tire clearance, 120mm travel fork, and a modern yet balanced geometry, the Mountaineer YBB continues to keep us hunting for new trails and the perfect new lines on our old favorites.

Is there a thread on the difference in performance and comfort between a softail like that and a full suspension?
 

byunbee

Well-Known Member
One of the best bikes I ever owned was a soft tail, at the end of the last millenium I owned a Carbon Scott Endorphin and it was a real do it all bike it would the whole rear end as made to flex a few inches. IT was a nice to ride as it was ugly to look at. :)
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It doesn't look THAT bad. There are many uglier bikes currently on the market. 😉
 

TomW

Member
Mine was a slightly different colour scheme, and I had more American Flags slapped over it which would be nice and patriotic if I did not live in the UK :) But to be honest I would not want to ride something covered in the Union Jack either :)

I meant It was garish and hard not to see, more than it is ugly.
Unfortunatly some scumbag stole it.
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
I have thought about this modification for a couple of years now. It was always something way down my list of priorities. That list has almost been crossed off in it entirety. - https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADgC6oyPM2gyrCq27 I do like the idea of not replacing a chain every 800 miles. Dicking around cleaning it after every ride. Washing it, lubricating it... let alone swapping them out. Maybe it's time to get serious'er.
 

Reece123

New Member
I had a belt drive on the intergrale kalkhoff and it came off a couple of times, that wasn’t the only thing wrong with this bike, like everything didn't work, I Iike the idea of the belt drive though, after going back to a cassette chain I miss it
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
I had a belt drive on the intergrale kalkhoff and it came off a couple of times, that wasn’t the only thing wrong with this bike, like everything didn't work, I Iike the idea of the belt drive though, after going back to a cassette chain I miss it
I bet it is hard to go back. I know I wouldn't go back to open gears after owning a Rohloff Speed-hub.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I bet it is hard to go back. I know I wouldn't go back to open gears after owning a Rohloff Speed-hub.

I have done just that. I had a Rohloff with belt drive and loved it. But I have gone back to a derailleur and chain.

The Rohloff developed an oil leak that threatened make a mess on my basement floor and render my rear brake useless (brake rotors and pads that get oil on them don't work any more). If I could have gotten if fixed promptly I would still be riding it but Cycle Monkey in Richmond California, the Rohloff Authorized service and parts shop for the USA turned out to be a caress, sloppy, company that let my hub sit on the shelf for two months waiting for someone to fix order the parts and fix it, with little or no communication until my dealer starting rattling cages at the bike's manufacturer. The bike company did not really take things seriously either at first, being so removed from the problem. I finally got the bike back but was so disenchanted by the neglectful Rohloff service, I sold it.

Rohloff make a great, perhaps legendary piece of bike kit. Unfortunately they chose a lousy company, with piss poor communication, and no regard for their customers, to take care of their service needs in the USA. I will not go through the process of having a new $9,000 ebike sit idle and unrideable for months again.

My new Trek Allant+9.9s has a 12 speed gear system, with a 10-51 tooth rear cassette for a 510% gear range and an upgraded wireless electronic derailleur. It is quick and responsive, immensely fun to ride. Parts are readily available and any shop can work on it. Granted, it is not as clean as the Rohloff and belt and not as free from routine maintenance, but the long down time was just not worth those benefits to me.
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
I have done just that. I had a Rohloff with belt drive and loved it. But I have gone back to a derailleur and chain.

The Rohloff developed an oil leak that threatened make a mess on my basement floor and render my rear brake useless (brake rotors and pads that get oil on them don't work any more). If I could have gotten if fixed promptly I would still be riding it but Cycle Monkey in Richmond California, the Rohloff Authorized service and parts shop for the USA turned out to be a caress, sloppy, company that let my hub sit on the shelf for two months waiting for someone to fix order the parts and fix it, with little or no communication until my dealer starting rattling cages at the bike's manufacturer. The bike company did not really take things seriously either at first, being so removed from the problem. I finally got the bike back but was so disenchanted by the neglectful Rohloff service, I sold it.

Rohloff make a great, perhaps legendary piece of bike kit. Unfortunately they chose a lousy company, with piss poor communication, and no regard for their customers, to take care of their service needs in the USA. I will not go through the process of having a new $9,000 ebike sit idle and unrideable for months again.

My new Trek Allant+9.9s has a 12 speed gear system, with a 10-51 tooth rear cassette for a 510% gear range and an upgraded wireless electronic derailleur. It is quick and responsive, immensely fun to ride. Parts are readily available and any shop can work on it. Granted, it is not as clean as the Rohloff and belt and not as free from routine maintenance, but the long down time was just not worth those benefits to me.
Yeah, technology can be a bitch sometimes, and ya have to maintain it rigorously. That being said I will never lose the Speed-hub... especially with a mid-drive putting over a full horse-power into the drive-train. Having a continuously straight chain-line is pretty crucial when I am climbing with multiple hundreds of pounds often.

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I was a little dismayed to see oil leaking from mine (Speed-hub) in 2017 when I took my bike to Oregon to experience the eclipse, more than a little dismayed.

Eclipse 2017

When I got back I found that it's normal for them to leak when the bike is laid down which I did in the back of a pick-up. I should have strapped her it standing like I would a motorcycle. (Wow, that sounded dirty.) Speed-hubs aren't sealed units, they are open to atmospheric pressure. All this seems like a pain-in-the-ass to anyone that can just throw their bike down like I did when I was a kid. But a heavily loaded ebike and trailer isn't something you lay down anyway... not if you're lucky. That's one of the reasons the center-stand is so essential to how I ride. Speed-hubs can also be overfilled. I went about 3 weeks last year dealing with BaFang controller issues and know what it's like being "down". The only reason I would ever own two bikes again, to have one as a back-up. If... (knock on wood) my Speed-hub ever requires repairs I will get another and send the original back to Rohloff themselves to do the work. "My" bike mech is good and can strip, clean, inspect, and re-fill a Speed-hub but even he doesn't rebuild them.

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The same goes when/if (more when I think) the BBSHD needs a major service or rebuild, buy a new one, mount it, and service the original.
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
Rohloff make a great, perhaps legendary piece of bike kit. Unfortunately they chose a lousy company, with piss poor communication, and no regard for their customers, to take care of their service needs in the USA.
My horror stories are with Tout Terrain and Peter White Cycles. A company that doesn't care about anything but local customers... if then, and their POS representative on the east coast. Whenever I think back and get pissed I just go for a ride.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Yeah, technology can be a bitch sometimes, and ya have to maintain it rigorously. That being said I will never lose the Speed-hub... especially with a mid-drive putting over a full horse-power into the drive-train. Having a continuously straight chain-line is pretty crucial when I am climbing with multiple hundreds of pounds often.

View attachment 59370

I was a little dismayed to see oil leaking from mine (Speed-hub) in 2017 when I took my bike to Oregon to experience the eclipse, more than a little dismayed.

Eclipse 2017

When I got back I found that it's normal for them to leak when the bike is laid down which I did in the back of a pick-up. I should have strapped her it standing like I would a motorcycle. (Wow, that sounded dirty.) Speed-hubs aren't sealed units, they are open to atmospheric pressure. All this seems like a pain-in-the-ass to anyone that can just throw their bike down like I did when I was a kid. But a heavily loaded ebike and trailer isn't something you lay down anyway... not if you're lucky. That's one of the reasons the center-stand is so essential to how I ride. Speed-hubs can also be overfilled. I went about 3 weeks last year dealing with BaFang controller issues and know what it's like being "down". The only reason I would ever own two bikes again, to have one as a back-up. If... (knock on wood) my Speed-hub ever requires repairs I will get another and send the original back to Rohloff themselves to do the work. "My" bike mech is good and can strip, clean, inspect, and re-fill a Speed-hub but even he doesn't rebuild them.

View attachment 59363 View attachment 59364 View attachment 59365 View attachment 59366 View attachment 59367 View attachment 59368 View attachment 59369

The same goes when/if (more when I think) the BBSHD needs a major service or rebuild, buy a new one, mount it, and service the original.

Thanks for sharing your story with the Speed Hub ... where is that impressive bike service located?
 

Nova Haibike

Well-Known Member
Speaking personally only and from a commuter and touring standpoint, while I would want a belt, I would not want suspension. I would rather have the lightness, simplicity and durability of a "rigid" frame...in titanium or for a lower budget, steel. Comfort to me can be through larger tires, and a longer wheelbase, especially longer chain stays. In other words, more passive suspension built into the bike.