Given the difficulties finding spare parts, why would a US buyer buy anything other than Bosch?

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
What does it matter when they start? Did they specifically tell you that they will do it for free in the beginning ?

After you purchased a bike from them they didn't charge you for your current bike.

You just said that it is ok to charge for software updates because it is their time now saying that they can swap the motor for free which is far more labor intensive than connecting a usb cable for a software update.
actually yes my mechanic told me he would contact bosch and see what they could do before I bought anything. the motor was done on warranty so bosch paid them to do the work.
 

Johnny

Well-Known Member
actually yes my mechanic told me he would contact bosch and see what they could do before I bought anything.
This is not say anything about the shop promising to cover labor costs they just told you that they will see what can be done. What is your point?

And you purchased a new bike from them before they heard back from bosch according to your other thread.

And if you are claiming that Bosch now pays for labor for warranty regardless of which lbs the bike is purchased from then please post the official statement or your invoice after the repair here. This way people like me can actually refer to it to get the same support for their own bikes too.
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
This is not say anything about the shop promising to cover labor costs. What is your point?

And you purchased a new bike from them before they heard back from bosch according to your other thread.
if bosch would not fix it and we did not know if they would I would have had to pay for any labor. but since bosch covered it under a warranty replacement they get paid for the work. neither of us thought bosch would replace it.
 

Johnny

Well-Known Member
if bosch would not fix it and we did not know if they would I would have had to pay for any labor. but since bosch covered it under a warranty replacement they get paid for the work. neither of us thought bosch would replace it.

I am not asking for your thoughts here, where exactly is written that Bosch covers for warranty work even from an LBS that you have not purchased the bike from. Or do you have an invoice that shows that labor is compensated by Bosch?

I actually talked to several LBS selling Bosch and they told me specifically that Bosch does not cover any labor for warranty work and they were doing it for free for the bikes that they sold but not for the others.

Now if you have certain knowledge that this has changed and Bosch now covers the labor then share it. If not I really don't care whether some lbs did you a favor because you purchased another bike from them that is not the point.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I replaced the 44 tooth front chain ring on my Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon 3 with a 48 tooth narrow wide chain ring without permission or altering anything in the motor settings. The bike has a gen 4 Performance Speed motor. I have been riding the bike for more than one year with 3,200 miles on it without a hitch. I got the reduced cadence I was looking for in the 11 tooth cog, spinning at 72rpm at 25 mph.

I have had the firmware updated without issue. I did check with Bosch first and was told that I might have to have the settings changed to accommodate the larger chain ring but I might not. In fact, it needed no tweaking and worked great right from the start. I also went from a 11-42 OEM Shimano Cassette to a 11-46 tooth to recapture the lost lower end, even though the spec from Shimano on the GRX derailleur was not supposed to go bigger than 42 teeth. An adjustment to the B screw and it has worked just fine for over 3,000 miles.

Thus, despite the published limitations of both Bosch and Shimano, I did what I wanted to expand the drive train on my bike without any complications, objections, error codes or issues.
20211020_094037.jpg
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
I am not asking for your thoughts here, where exactly is written that Bosch covers for warranty work even from an LBS that you have not purchased the bike from. Or do you have an invoice that shows that labor is compensated by Bosch?

I actually talked to several LBS selling Bosch and they told me specifically that Bosch does not cover any labor for warranty work and they were doing it for free for the bikes that they sold but not for the others.

Now if you have certain knowledge that this has changed and Bosch now covers the labor then share it. If not I really don't care whether some lbs did you a favor because you purchased another bike from them that is not the point.
well thats all your getting. no price was discussed and if they did it or free then thats that and thats a good shop. bulls rep got me all hooked up to take it to the shop I bought it from but it was already done before they got it done.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
True, except that we do have a choice of navi (with built in display) in cars, don't we? Built it, apple carplay and android auto with google maps. That's far better than we have with bikes. Not like years past where we needed a separate cell phone mount in our car for decent navigation. And with ebikes, who has room for a separate display on their handlebar anyway?

that's sorta the point though. why have a separate display? eBikes (and all bikes!) should use open, industry standard protocols. ANT+ and Bluetooth, giving users a choice of cycling computer or phone, or neither, or both.

on the right, my eBike. iphone 12 mini i purchased used for this purpose. when i sell it after 2 years of use it will barely have depreciated, perhaps $150 or so. not even $10 a month. it weighs 135 grams. much less than a clunky nyon or similar. beautiful OLED display. does anything i need it to on a bike, or during a ride, in an emergency, to pay for food, take a picture, etc. on the left is the same phone and the same app on my analog bike. exactly the same experience. seamless garmin radar integration - that's the green bar up the left side, with icons of cars at the appropriate distance. power. heart rate. navigation. cadence. the graphics are perfectly legible in the bright california sun, as shown. the one on the right is a terrible picture, of course!

1227-phones.jpg


bike manufacturers need to realize they CANNOT do things better than apple or wahoo or garmin can, and embrace industry standard protocols to communicate with and control the bike. do you really think even bosch, brose, yamaha could afford to spend 1/100 the r+d that apple does on a mobile device or even a meaningful fraction of what garmin does?

my other eBike, a vanmoof, exclusively uses a phone for control. it unlocks when you walk near it, has the usual battery, speed, mode control, etc. you can even shift it by tapping on the phone if you want, which is stupid, of course. they don't integrate with bike computers, but people don't use bike computers on dutch city bikes. three different bikes, one controller/display.
 
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mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
... it needed no tweaking and worked great right from the start. I also went from a 11-42 OEM Shimano Cassette to a 11-46 tooth to recapture the lost lower end, even though the spec from Shimano on the GRX derailleur was not supposed to go bigger than 42 teeth. An adjustment to the B screw and it has worked just fine for over 3,000 miles.

Thus, despite the published limitations of both Bosch and Shimano, I did what I wanted to expand the drive train on my bike without any complications, objections, error codes or issues...

this makes complete sense when you consider that 1) the motor has no idea what gear the bike is in with a mechanical drivetrain, and i'd be quite surprised if they made that integration even with an electronic shifting drivetrain like di2, and 2) the load on the motor varies wildly by factors other than what gear it's in - hills, weight, wind, speed, which would make a system that was so sensitive to load that it had to be reprogrammed for a 10 or 20% variation virtually useless.

the stupidity here is not that the system requires the motor/firmware to know anything about the chainring, it's that bosch claims it does, when clearly it doesn't and can't, at least within reason. they probably just don't want people doing dumb s*it like a 55t time trial ring with a 9t small cog and then try and grind up a hill at full power, stalling the motor, their legs, and falling off and dying. 😅
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
the stupidity here is not that the system requires the motor/firmware to know anything about the chainring, it's that bosch claims it does, when clearly it doesn't and can't, at least within reason.
Didn't @Marci jo experience error codes when she replaced the chainring on her Bosch Trek?
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Y. O.
I replaced the 44 tooth front chain ring on my Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon 3 with a 48 tooth narrow wide chain ring without permission or altering anything in the motor settings. The bike has a gen 4 Performance Speed motor. I have been riding the bike for more than one year with 3,200 miles on it without a hitch. I got the reduced cadence I was looking for in the 11 tooth cog, spinning at 72rpm at 25 mph.

I have had the firmware updated without issue. I did check with Bosch first and was told that I might have to have the settings changed to accommodate the larger chain ring but I might not. In fact, it needed no tweaking and worked great right from the start. I also went from a 11-42 OEM Shimano Cassette to a 11-46 tooth to recapture the lost lower end, even though the spec from Shimano on the GRX derailleur was not supposed to go bigger than 42 teeth. An adjustment to the B screw and it has worked just fine for over 3,000 miles.

Thus, despite the published limitations of both Bosch and Shimano, I did what I wanted to expand the drive train on my bike without any complications, objections, error codes or issues.
View attachment 118867
So they've added fear tactics on top of the unnecessary proprietary engineering to stop people from customizing the bikes they own.
Got it! 🙃

.... and with a totally different sentiment, nice to come across one of your post again.
 
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Marci jo

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
City
Central Mn
Didn't @Marci jo experience error codes when she replaced the chainring on her Bosch Trek?

Stefan,
Based on the opinions of the Bosch members here and the mechanic at my lbs, I did not change the chainring on my Trek. It’s still 38 teeth. I still may try it. Right now my class one Trek ebike is the one I use for group rides, sometimes as many as 20 riders tightly grouped together. My groups are slower pace, stop frequently, and talk all the time. And they know the all best places to eat!
My Trek is 45 lbs (20.kg), making easy to haul to the various locations. And has 50 nm of torque, so unlike a hub drive, the acceleration is as gentle as I choose. No smashing into riders ahead of me.
Based on Alaskan’s post I still may go ahead with perhaps a 42 or 44 tooth chainring. In the event the motor does shut off, the bike rides like a non-power hybrid bike, doable but no so much fun.
 
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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Stefan, I did not change the chainring on my Trek. It’s still 38 teeth. I still may try it. Right now my class one Trek ebike is the one I use for group rides, sometimes as many as 20 riders tightly grouped together. My groups are slower pace, stop frequently, and talk all the time. And they know the all best places to eat!
My Trek is 45 lbs (20.kg), making easy to haul to the various locations. And has 50 nm of torque, so unlike a hub drive, the acceleration is as gentle as I choose. No smashing into riders ahead of me.
Based on Alaskan’s post I still may go ahead with perhaps a 42 or 44 tooth chainring. In the event the motor does shut off, the bike rides like a non-power hybrid bike, doable but no so much fun.
I'm very interested in the outcome of your test!
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The fact that someone would consider themselves constrained even in the least by a change in drivetrain hardware by the manufacturer, who - correctly or not - implies that bad things will happen if they make any configuration changes to the bicycle that the consumer has paid for and owns - is plenty of reason all by itself to stay miles away from that manufacturer.

You move from a flat plain to the hills and your bike can't be changed to reflect your different circumstances? Ridiculous. Oh and lets rub your nose in your lack of right to repair by setting a new standard for over-market prices for anything we do allow you to buy.

I realize that some folks simply have other things to do than bike mechanics... and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Plenty of things I can't do and don't want to, as well. But boy am I ever glad I am not playing in this sandbox.
 

ChezCheese:)

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Kitsap Co, WA
An ebike is more than its motor. In my case, it was the whole package - - and the quiet & torque of the Brose motor which led to my choice.

As for warranties, BH had the best in the business when I bought my bike, but then they pulled out of the US market, so that was a bummer. A change in policy by a corporation can happen at any time. However, when did I ever own any bike that had a warranty? Never. A bike is something you expect to fix most everything yourself, and if you can't, then you pay a bike mechanic to do it for you.