Got 106 miles on Eco from 2020 Vado 4

Zekeer

Active Member
Region
USA
I tuned my bike's eco mode for 10%-100% . Got 106 miles and still have 7% battery life left . I also used Sport and Turbo for 5 of the 106 miles . Surprisingly 10% still supplied enough juice to make rolling country roads pretty easy . Averaging 16 MPH . Also climbed a step hill every ride . Ride lengths were 10-15 mile after work rides .
It was enough juice to supply some extra power . But not so much that I didn't have a good workout at times . I tried 15% which just made things to easy for me . At least at this point .
Let me also mention I was able to reach speeds of 25 mph and could have averaged higher then the 15mph I stated . But didn't want to be to far ahead of the group I ride with . What I noticed most is that 10% gets you up to speed just like those who had theirs set for 35-50 % . It just takes more effort to reach. But once you get there as easy to maintain . At least for me it was .
 
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Alpha Ice

Member
Region
USA
Are you saying your peak was 100% and your support was 10%? That's really good battery life, especially for a 2020 that was probably around 500 wH? While I've had my 2022 much higher, I have been tweaking different levels of support, and admittedly....I'm still trying to find the perfect balance between working hard and riding the bike. While I don't have an issue with my cadence, I do have an issue with not relaxing and enjoying the ride, and I end up making it too much of a workout (faster speed, higher gear etc). I'm hoping my wife being a bit slower biker will allow me to slow my role and speed a bit. I'd love to get that kind of range. I was close, but then I hit some wide open roads on my commute and was facing a 20mph head wind that killed my battery in sport mode (50%).
 

Sefutau2020

Active Member
Region
USA
Very nice. I may try the 10/100% setting in ECO. I usually get 85 to 90 miles out of ECO at the standard 35/35% setting. I am using 40/100 in Sport, which yields roughly 45 miles. Thanks for the insight.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Mazovia, Poland
It is natural the battery consumption to be as low with as low assistance. Translated to SL motor terms, that was 20/100% assistance that allows the "super lightweight" ride at traditional bicycle speeds.
However, I need a significantly higher assistance level, so my 168 km (104.4 mi) trip required average 41.4/41.4% support and used as much as 1061 Wh of the battery charge. Besides, the 40/40% setting allows me riding my full power Vado (1.2s motor) with traditional gravel cyclists for long distance and at pretty high speed.
 

Zekeer

Active Member
Region
USA
Are you saying your peak was 100% and your support was 10%? That's really good battery life, especially for a 2020 that was probably around 500 wH? While I've had my 2022 much higher, I have been tweaking different levels of support, and admittedly....I'm still trying to find the perfect balance between working hard and riding the bike. While I don't have an issue with my cadence, I do have an issue with not relaxing and enjoying the ride, and I end up making it too much of a workout (faster speed, higher gear etc). I'm hoping my wife being a bit slower biker will allow me to slow my role and speed a bit. I'd love to get that kind of range. I was close, but then I hit some wide open roads on my commute and was facing a 20mph head wind that killed my battery in sport mode (50%).
I think the battery is either 504 W or 540 W. Answering that question without looking it up. First I should mention I've ridden regular bikes before this and still do . Averaging 25 miles and up to 50 miles . So when I first got my E-bike it was going to be just for fast runs . Seems like 2 years of Covid and everyone that I am friends with who hadn't ridden for 40 plus years . All of a sudden got e-bikes . My wife is in better shape then me . She's a Gym rat . I'm not . Been there did that for 25 years .

The only time I used sport or Turbo was when I stopped for a minute to play around with tweaking things and the group would get a mile or better ahead of me . My Bike came setup at 35%-35% in eco mode . I think the LBS must have messed with it . As they had an indoor 100 yard track you could test bikes on without taking them out on the road . What I have found so far : All tests are in eco mode . That 5% works as well for me on bike paths where it's smooth concrete as 10% does for me on gravel packed black top country roads works . This 100 miles is all country road . I started out with 10% -35%. I tried it in 10% jumps up to 100% . So the 10-100. I honestly could not notice any difference . I climbed some steep hills . One in particular that I can climb with my Generic Dual Sport . I was huffing and puffing just as hard using the vado as I do the duel sport . The difference was the gear I was able to use in the E-bike was 3 . On the Regular bike it was my tallest gear . This is a hill that you get no running start to speak of.
Warmer weather is leaving us fast where I live . So not sure if I will even get another full battery run to check it out further .
I know I'm pretty pleased . Before doing this I wasn't really getting much of a workout . I like climbing and being forced to breath hard . I wasn't getting that at 35% -Nor at 15% either . Unless I rode by myself and stayed above 23 in Eco all the time .

One last thing . I'm going on a 20 mile run tonight . So I need to charge my battery up. So before I did With 7% left . I road 5 miles in Turbo as fast as I could pedal. That venture ate up 1% per mile . My Turbo is set at 35- 100%. So I am guessing it's the first number that matters most to battery life .
 

Zekeer

Active Member
Region
USA
Very nice. I may try the 10/100% setting in ECO. I usually get 85 to 90 miles out of ECO at the standard 35/35% setting. I am using 40/100 in Sport, which yields roughly 45 miles. Thanks for the insight.
Is that with the 500 W battery or the 700 W . I have gotten around almost 70 with the 35-35 setup . But that was a 2 day ride with a group that were really slow . We average 9.9 Miles per hr . Stopping to rest every 10 miles . I'm thinking about getting an extra battery . More so because it sounds like Specialized may discontinue older batteries . Not sure if that's true. I've just read it in forums here and there . I'm honestly not overly concerned . Most of the people I am riding with are huffing away with 35% Support . I don't see with my social group ever going past 50 miles . Maybe Stephan knows
 

Alpha Ice

Member
Region
USA
There is some great info on Specialized' site about what the peak and support mean. My understanding was that the support level would be the lowest level it would provide, and then the peak would be how much it would kick out. So I set mine up like gears, Eco was 20/35, Sport was 40/65, and then turbo was 70/100. I haven't set any up with the full 100, but I'll have to double check my stock settings. Mine is the 740 wH battery in the 2020 4.0, but that was easy to get 100 miles of range I felt like if I drove reasonable speeds. Of course I was averaging about 18 mph, but I did have my top end of peak cut off, so it did require some decent pedaling and cadence. I'm in MN like some others, so I too will be limited in my seasonal riding.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Mazovia, Poland
The Max Motor Power (the second parameter) is critical for the battery range. It is an artificial limit (a cap, ceiling) on the power the motor can produce. The Assist (the first parameter) is how much pedalling is amplified by the system.

If you Zeeker can input 150 W on the average with your legs (you can check your actual leg power on the Mastermind), and let us assume Vado 4.0 has the max amplification of 3.6x (I have not checked that figure!) the motor would be helping you with: 0.1 (10%) * 3.6 (max amplification) * 150 (your leg power) = 54 W of power. Just a third of what you have input yourself! "It's 1/3 x You!" :)

Now, let us assume your motor has the Peak Power of 520 W (just guessing). With such small Assist, it does not matter whether your Max Motor Power is 10% (52 W max) or 100% (520 W max) because the low assistance of 10% you set makes it impossible to get more motor power anyway!

Now, let us assume you have set the Assist to 50% and the Max Motor Power to 100%. Input 150 W of legs power:
Requested Motor Power = 0.5 * 3.6 * 150 = 270 W. With the Max Motor Power there is no limit (it is 520 W). The motor will gladly provide 270 W (mechanical) you have requested.

Now, set the Max Motor Power to 40%. The motor power will be capped at 520 * 0.4 = 208 W. In the scenario before, the motor would provide as much as 270 W. In the second scenario, the motor will help you with continuous 208 Watts. Decrease the Max Motor Power to 10%. The cap is 52 Watts and the motor will not provide you anything more than that.
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In the very first scenario, you instructed the motor to amplify your legs very slightly but left the total motor power in the reserve. If you started pedalling very hard, the motor would appreciate your effort and come with tremendous assistance.

However, if you limited the Max Motor Power, the motor would stay at the capped power and would not help you more disregarding how hard you were pedalling.
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A gravel group ride planned for last Sunday was cancelled. I rode the same route and it was 130 km (80 mi) on Saturday. Necessary to mention gravel group rides are very fast, especially when the group is switching to the pavement.
 
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Alpha Ice

Member
Region
USA
I'm curious how hard he would have to pedal to access that 100% of peak power. This is the explanation I got from a site that specifically talked about the MC app. It makes sense to me in the way they have described it, but I wouldn't expect him to only be at 10% power level if you're pedaling in the efficiency range of the motor to be getting such high mileage with it. aka, at some point I would expect him to exceed 10%, and dip into 25/50% peak power and therefore lowering his mileage.

Peak Power is self explanatory – you’re basically selecting what percentage of the motor’s power you want access to. At 100%, you’ll be able to get 100% of the motor’s power output. At 50%, you’ll restrict the motor’s power output by half. But why would you tune it to lower than 100%? Well you may find the peak power output from the motor to be too powerful when riding on off-road singletrack, or you may simply want to improve efficiency. If you limit the motor’s maximum output, it’ll simply draw less from the battery, getting you more range.

Support is a little more complex. The simplest way to think of support is that it basically defines how hard you have to pedal in order to access the maximum power output from the motor. A higher support level will make it easier for you to get all the assistance from the motor, improving acceleration. A lower support level means you’ll have to pedal harder in order to reach the motor’s peak power output, resulting in softer and more progressive acceleration.

Do forgive me if I'm missing something, but I would have expected if you're pedaling in the sweet spot (cadence is 70-80) at some point you're going to hit the full support and wattage. FWIW, I hit 580w peak motor output Sunday on my way home, in turbo with the wind in my face. Obviously I have some more playing to do around the info you presented earlier Stefan, but maybe I don't need to have the artificial limits as I thought I did? If he's at 10/100 and getting excellent range. Maybe I need to be thinking more of it like the watts I'm generating....or maybe I need to focus more on my speed/watts, and not trying to always go 18mph (therefore generating larger watts and consuming more power unless I have the peak power turned down).
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Mazovia, Poland
Mine is the 740 wH battery in the 2020 4.0
Impossible. The latest 5.0 has the new 710 Wh battery. A typo?

I hit 580w peak motor output Sunday on my way home,
It's the electrical power. Multiply by 0.8 to get approximate mechanical power.

The reason to cap the Max Motor Power is to save the battery charge in the case the rider has strong legs. Otherwise, the motor would be responding with excessive power.
 

Marcela

Well-Known Member
I tuned my bike's eco mode for 10%-100% . Got 106 miles and still have 7% battery life left . I also used Sport and Turbo for 5 of the 106 miles . Surprisingly 10% still supplied enough juice to make rolling country roads pretty easy . Averaging 16 MPH . Also climbed a step hill every ride . Ride lengths were 10-15 mile after work rides .
It was enough juice to supply some extra power . But not so much that I didn't have a good workout at times . I tried 15% which just made things to easy for me . At least at this point .
Let me also mention I was able to reach speeds of 25 mph and could have averaged higher then the 15mph I stated . But didn't want to be to far ahead of the group I ride with . What I noticed most is that 10% gets you up to speed just like those who had theirs set for 35-50 % . It just takes more effort to reach. But once you get there as easy to maintain . At least for me it was .
That's pretty good. I'm down to 25/100 on eco mode and find I can move along in the mid to high teens pretty easy on level ground with the 5 series and 36t chainring.
 

Zekeer

Active Member
Region
USA
That's pretty good. I'm down to 25/100 on eco mode and find I can move along in the mid to high teens pretty easy on level ground with the 5 series and 36t chainring.
That's pretty good for a Girl ;) ;) JK ... I'm forcing myself because I went thru the first covid ,broken ribs , and then the Flu in just 7 mths time . It may be watts for electrical power . But cadence is thru the lungs . My wife can't out run me speed wise all else the same . At speed and maintaining it, she wins because her lungs are stronger . I can get to 28 MPH faster then her but she can stay there a few seconds longer .
 

Alpha Ice

Member
Region
USA
Stefan, I found another post that you and some others had commented on that provided more insight. I don't mean to steal the thread, but I do appreciate everyone's insights. I do need to focus only on my watts only (cadence + gear) will get me there. I will have to pedal at my proper cadence, but keep my speed lower than I had expected, which is probably fine for 80% of my travels.
 

Zekeer

Active Member
Region
USA
Stefan, I found another post that you and some others had commented on that provided more insight. I don't mean to steal the thread, but I do appreciate everyone's insights. I do need to focus only on my watts only (cadence + gear) will get me there. I will have to pedal at my proper cadence, but keep my speed lower than I had expected, which is probably fine for 80% of my travels.
Don't say you don't mean to do something and then do it : LOL
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Mazovia, Poland
I will have to pedal at my proper cadence, but keep my speed lower than I had expected, which is probably fine for 80% of my travels.
Let my (merry) comment be: What have not you people bought Vado SL? :) Zeeker would pedal it at 20/100% with the main battery + Range Extender good for him for 106 miles, and Alpha could ride it slower, only maintaining his Watts (cadence * torque) by riding in the proper gear :)

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My longest Vado 5.0 ride. Average speed of 24 km/h. 1274 kcal burnt.

1663162451599.png

My longest Vado SL ride. Big part of the distance was ridden with SL 20/50%. Average speed of 19.2 km/h. 1446 kcal burnt.
 
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Zekeer

Active Member
Region
USA
Let my (merry) comment be: What have not you people bought Vado SL? :) Zeeker would pedal it at 20/100% with the main battery + Range Extender good for him for 106 miles, and Alpha could ride it slower, only maintaining his Watts (cadence * torque) by riding in the proper gear :)

View attachment 135170
My longest Vado 5.0 ride. Average speed of 24 km/h. 1274 kcal burnt.

View attachment 135169
My longest Vado SL ride. Big part of the distance was ridden with SL 20/50%. Average speed of 19.2 km/h. 1446 kcal burnt.
Stephan , what are you using to gather this info . Is there software that tells you what grade of hills you climbed as well ?
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Mazovia, Poland
I connect my Specialized e-bikes to either Wahoo ELEMNT Roam or Bolt v2 (the former is more capable, and the latter is more modern). My Vado or Vado SL are seen by the bike GPS computer as a single sensor called E-Bike (each of the e-bikes is reported as a separate Sensor). Wahoo is fed with e-bike specific information as you ride. Post-ride, Wahoo allows you to concurrently upload all ride data to many sports trackers such as Strava or RideWithGPS. And yes, RideWithGPS gives you full information on the hills you have climbed.

1663179215003.png

RideWithGPS Elevation/Grade/Speed chart. Clicking anywhere in the zoomable chart will show the respective hill on the ride map.

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RideWithGPS ride summary. Clicking at the max/min grade will show you the respective hill on the ride map.

1663179362851.png

RideWithGPS stats.


1663179456933.png

RideWithGPS climbs and descents.
 
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Zekeer

Active Member
Region
USA
I connect my Specialized e-bikes to either Wahoo ELEMNT Roam or Bolt v2 (the former is more capable, and the latter is more modern). My Vado or Vado SL are seen by the bike GPS computer as a single sensor called E-Bike (each of the e-bikes is reported as a separate Sensor). Wahoo is fed with e-bike specific information as you ride. Post-ride, Wahoo allows you to concurrently upload all ride data to many sports trackers such as Strava or RideWithGPS. And yes, RideWithGPS gives you full information on the hills you have climbed.

View attachment 135189
RideWithGPS Elevation/Grade/Speed chart. Clicking anywhere in the zoomable chart will show the respective hill on the ride map.

View attachment 135190
RideWithGPS ride summary. Clicking at the max/min grade will show you the respective hill on the ride map.

View attachment 135191
RideWithGPS stats.


View attachment 135193
RideWithGPS climbs and descents.
Wow : Thanks . I think ;)