Grace One.15 will not be available in USA for 2015

Mike leroy

Active Member
I was told by the USA Grace distributor that the Grace One.15 has not gone into production. Will not be available for sale in the USA this year. Europe availability might happen this year. The motor is manufactured by Hero Electric of India. The Ultra motor specs do not appear on the web site. The motor would probably overheat on hills in the 10 to 20% grade range, was most difficult to accept. Should overheating issues still exist in 2015? Come on!

I have tried to find a good 1000 to 2000 watt eBike solution. So frustrating. I guess it will take time. The eBike companies that build bikes above 1000W to compete with Honda or other moped companies might take huge losses. The eBike companies simply do not have the volume compared to the Hondas of the world. The 1000+ watt moped style eBikes are not price competitive with a Honda Ruckus (50cc/3kW), PCX150 (100+ mpg/10kW) or Forza (300cc, 68 mpg, ABS brakes). What a shame!

Started a comparison with Honda PCX150 here.


The new benchmark.
The Grace ONE.15, with stunning technology and perfect design, moves up a level to a new dimension of riding pleasure: purism in perfection. Powered by a performance that sets new standards for an E-bike and gets the adrenaline pumping.


The Grace One.15 is scheduled for Sept. 2015. Check out these specs:
gearbox: Pinion P1.9 (crank only, no cassette needed)
Weight ca. 31 kg
Battery 15,6 Ah / 718 Wh (Range Extender: 23,4 Ah / 1076 Wh)
Torque 55 Nm
Support Levels 3 Modi Eco, City, Sport
Controller Electrical System by Eltronic AG
Fork Grace Rigid Fork, Rock Shox Domain RC
Shifting system Pinion P1.9
Engine 2000 W Ultra Motor
Drive Gates Carbon Drive
Braking system Magura MT 4
Tires Schwalbe Crazy Bob 26″
Front light Grace developed Light System/front light LUMOTEC IQ Cyo E
Back light LED Backlight
Options carrier set
Range max. 60 km* (Range extender: 90 km*)
Recommended sales price 4.999 €

Under California, not federal, law a 1 kW motor is a legal "motorized bicycle" -- not a motorcycle or moped. In California, A 1kW eBike does not require DMV registration, insurance or a license.
 
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Mike leroy

Active Member
I would check with Motostrano. At this course of dollar vs euro you might save a lot of money by buying now
How do you compare the quality of Grace/A2B Motor and Falco? I notice quite a bit of Falco problems being discussed.

  1. What are the major strengths and weaknesses?
  2. Is A2B/Ultra Motor significantly better?
  3. Why do the companies not publish reports like this clear Sabavoton motor graph? Is embarrassing info being withheld?



My main issue with One.15 is 2kW. The extra one kW strikes me as laziness. grace is using the 2kW Ultra motor. I cannot seem to find a spec sheet for this motor using Google. Please provide the URL, if you come across it.
  1. Is more than 1kW necessary?
  2. Could a highly efficient 1kW approximate 2kW power?
  3. At what wattage does heat loss reach a point of diminishing returns?
  4. Or is the 2kW necessary to reach the RPM range for high speeds?
  5. Is A2B an efficient motor and reliable motor?
  6. Why did Grace choose A2B?

I like the Pinion P1.9 gearbox better than cassettes. I suspect Pinion may also be overkill for the wrong reasons. The distance between dropouts is too small for large hub motors. Therefore, to minimize space the gears are moved forward to the crank.

  1. what is your opinion about the a gearbox vs cassette design?
  2. Is it truly beneficial and worth the cost, or simply a desperate option?

The third issue is the battery position. I notice a 15Ah battery, which is big. Plenty of space inside the frame triangle.
  1. Why expose the battery to the tire, rather than protect the battery inside the frame?
 
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J.R.

Well-Known Member
Hi Mike. Hearing and reading about Grace, all reports are that Grace is one of the finest ebikes available. The One would be classed as a small motorcycle or moped given it is almost 3 HP. That brings in DOT standards and insurance to legally ride on the road. At current spec it will not be approved by DOT and is there an insurance class? ATV?

If and when it's released for sale, it will likely take a year or so more for it to make it to the US as most Euro bikes have. If it can be sold in the US will you be able to ride it anywhere other than private property?

Currently the euro to dollar is at historic lows but that's not expected to last. In a year this could be a 7,000.00 to 10,000.00 USD bike. Why not check out what is available today at @motostrano this Saturday at their demo day. You just may be surprised at the big grin one of his bikes can put on your face.:)

Peace
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
Hi Mike. Hearing and reading about Grace, all reports are that Grace is one of the finest ebikes available. The One would be classed as a small motorcycle or moped given it is almost 3 HP. That brings in DOT standards and insurance to legally ride on the road. At current spec it will not be approved by DOT and is there an insurance class? ATV?

If and when it's released for sale, it will likely take a year or so more for it to make it to the US as most Euro bikes have. If it can be sold in the US will you be able to ride it anywhere other than private property?

Currently the euro to dollar is at historic lows but that's not expected to last. In a year this could be a 7,000.00 to 10,000.00 USD bike. Why not check out what is available today at @motostrano this Saturday at their demo day. You just may be surprised at the big grin one of his bikes can put on your face.:)

Peace
Because a friend has already exchanged his eBike for a Honda PCX150. I would get a $2000 Honda Ruckus or $4000 PCX, if a Grace One.15 or equivalent is unavailable. I own a Honda car and have been very pleased with it.

My friend told me he got his money worth from his eBike. However, the Honda PCX is more practical and a better financial value. The eBike worked well for very short trips, I.e., 2 miles or less. The Honda PCX works much better above 10% grade hills or 5-10 mile trips. He rarely travels over 45mph, although the PCX is highway legal. I live close to a freeway.

He gets over 100mpg. I could make a year's worth of grocery trips -- 400 miles -- on one tank of gas! I like that. I would charge a 2kW eBike once a month in my hills.

I could easily outrun cars on my road with the PCX. My street lacks a bike lane. How can an eabike go uphill at 35mph in the share lane. I will get run off the road.

The PCX can carry as much groceries as I want. An eBike rack weight limit is around 30 pounds. The PCX suspension is more comfortable on the speed bumps.

The PCX far better brakes, 220mm, 3 piston, ABS-like computer controlled. Much better when the road is wet and emergencies

All the DOT reasons you give, argue strongly in Honda PCX favor. You are persuading me to go with the Honda. I am very tempted to stop by the Honda dealer to try the $2000 Ruckus.

 
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Brambor

Well-Known Member
Hi Mike. I am late to respond but seems that the discussion took slightly different direction if you are actually considering a motorcycle.

but IMHO - comparing Grace to Falco is just not fair. I think Rakesh is good guy a has been responsive on this forum but so far the reviews and feedback I have seen here are that there are a lot of minute quirks to work out with Falco. Adding to that is the challenge to install it on a proper bicycle and dial it all in. Then ride it - so many variables to affect the final outcome.

With Grace you get tested performance, especially in the sensing of the ride. You can call it the smoothness of the ride while bicycling. This is very important and could mean the difference between annoying misery and bliss. A bike that reads your cadence and effort properly and communicates it to the motor is worth the extra expense. It is not just how many KW each motor has. In addition the computerized battery management and especially the intergration of the frame with the battery to make sure nothing rattles, nothing gets damaged by water etc etc... are all very important and accordingly reflected in the final price. And then there is actually warranty and support.

This is all relevant if you want to ride a bicycle i.e. pedal to propel yourself. If your priority is to just push a throttle then I would just get the motorcycle. It has better shock absorption, seat and overall better ride.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
Hi Mike. I am late to respond but seems that the discussion took slightly different direction if you are actually considering a motorcycle.

but IMHO - comparing Grace to Falco is just not fair. I think Rakesh is good guy a has been responsive on this forum but so far the reviews and feedback I have seen here are that there are a lot of minute quirks to work out with Falco. Adding to that is the challenge to install it on a proper bicycle and dial it all in. Then ride it - so many variables to affect the final outcome.

With Grace you get tested performance, especially in the sensing of the ride. You can call it the smoothness of the ride while bicycling. This is very important and could mean the difference between annoying misery and bliss. A bike that reads your cadence and effort properly and communicates is to the motor is worth the extra expense. It is not just how many KW each motor has. In addition the computerized battery management and especially the intergration of the frame with the battery to make sure nothing rattles, nothing gets damaged by water etc etc... are all very important and accordingly reflected in the final price. And then there is actually warranty and support.

This is all relevant if you want to ride a bicycle i.e. pedal to propel yourself. If your priority is to just push a throttle then I would just get the motorcycle. It has better shock absorption, seat and overall better ride.
You are right on target. I see the PCX as a scooter. I see the One.15 as a moped. The distinctions overlap.

I prefer to pedal for the exercise. However, I have to pay a premium for the luxury. I also face serious limitations with the eBike in the hills and longer trips, I.e., 5+ miles. The Honda will also travel much further. I only wish the Honda were electric. An electric Honda scooter is very compelling!
 

Brambor

Well-Known Member
beware - I have two Vespa Scooters. While they have suspension they are still quite bumpy and dangerous on roads with potholes and frost heaves especially because they will go 40 to 50mph.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
beware - I have two Vespa Scooters. While they have suspension they are still quite bumpy and dangerous on roads with potholes and frost heaves especially because they will go 40 to 50mph.
I just got off the phone with the U.S. Grace distributor. The One.15 will not be available in the US this year. the Ultra motor is made by Hero Electric of India. I asked him about the heat characteristics. He felt the motor might have heat issues in the hills in my area.

The Honda PCX is a better choice for me in California, when considering "mopeds" or "scooters" above the 1000 Watt legal limit.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
I just got off the phone with the U.S. Grace distributor. The One.15 will not be available in the US this year. the Ultra motor is made by Hero Electric of India. I asked him about the heat characteristics. He felt the motor might have heat issues in the hills in my area.

The Honda PCX is a better choice for me in California, when considering "mopeds" or "scooters" above the 1000 Watt legal limit.
Brambor,

The real question is whether I can find a 1000 watt eBike under $4000. I think that will be difficult because most motors tend to be 750 watts to meet the federal limit.

The Honda PCX will probably be my solution, because I need at least 1000 watts.
 

Brambor

Well-Known Member
I love mopeds. They are a lot of fun. I have two. My kids ride them to school and work. Sometimes I take the moped to work or to pick up milk and breat at a local store
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Brambor,

The real question is whether I can find a 1000 watt eBike under $4000. I think that will be difficult because most motors tend to be 750 watts to meet the federal limit.

The Honda PCX will probably be my solution, because I need at least 1000 watts.
Mike, won't the Honda require a motorcycle license and insurance? Having taught motorcycle rider safety courses I'm fairly certain you will need to take one in CA. to get your license. Just an FWI for you to factor in while trying to decide what to get. Good luck!
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
in Maine anything above 50cc you need special motorcycle license.
Yes. I am OK with that, if it is the best solution.
I prefer a 1000 watt eBike, but I am ready to accept the legal requirements.

The calculations tell me to continue running to the store for groceries. If you apply economic theory, the payoff for $4,000 vehicle is 20 years of running/walking to the store! I might be best off by continuing to run/hike food back!
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
yeah. pretty much need to ride 4 days per week for over 2 years to amortize that.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U9Ww47Rrg7Xv2qLg6tnX6bYxp-2JHvktoUe5HqoSYKM/edit?usp=sharing

I made this spreadsheet when gas prices were higher than today.
I really hate burning gas. I only go to the store once or perhaps twice per week. I get too much exercise. People tell me I need to gain weight. Whenever I run, I start losing weight fast. And the worst part is people tell me that there is no fat on my body! I can lose 20 pounds. I have no idea where that loss comes from.

My sister is a nurse and tells me losing weight is unhealthy for me.

But when I run, I feel on top of the world! So, burning gasoline is probably in my best interests. I still hate the smell, noise and environmental damage.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
yeah. pretty much need to ride 4 days per week for over 2 years to amortize that.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U9Ww47Rrg7Xv2qLg6tnX6bYxp-2JHvktoUe5HqoSYKM/edit?usp=sharing

I made this spreadsheet when gas prices were higher than today.
I have tried to find a good solution. So frustrating. I guess it will take time. The eBike companies that compete with Honda or other moped companies might take huge losses. The eBike companies simply do not have the volume compared to the Hondas of the worls.