Haibike, Yamha and Bosch

Jörn

New Member
So Haibike announced new bikes with Yamaha instead of Bosh as their electric motor system. Are they going to discontinue making bikes with Bosch motor or are they going to be exclusive with Yamaha? Anyone who has more detailed info on whats happening?
 

Chris Nolte

Well-Known Member
Jörn - Haibike will continue with both lines, however it will be at least another year before any of the Yamaha stuff comes stateside. Although I imagine you might not be in the US. The Yamaha is simply a lower cost option for those that don't want to spend for the Bosch. I haven't gotten a chance to ride them yet, but I will next month and be sure to give an update. They will start shipping within the next year to select European countries though.
 

Jörn

New Member
Thanks for the answer. So Bosch is still for their high end bikes and now they have a more affordable option, thats nice. Why I wondered was that I read about the new Bosch system for 2015 with gps and that some bikes gonna have a Nexus hub with automatic shifting. It first sounded like Haibike had switched from Bosch to Yamaha and in same time I read the other news abou the new Bosch.
 

Brambor

Well-Known Member
Although Yamaha might be less expensive option I wonder if it is really a worse choice or whether you get more for the dollar?
 

Jörn

New Member
Yes, the specs was nice. And the display unit was a little bit smaller. I like the Bosch display but its a little big, and next one even bigger =)
 

Brambor

Well-Known Member
From the article it looks like equal if not better system than Bosh. It responds to pedal immediately vs a few cranks on the Bosh system and it seems to provide more torque.
 

4REEE

New Member
@Brambor: I like the part of the article that says that the Yamaha battery is inserted from the side allowing better integration into smaller frames. That's great for riders like my wife and I who are short.

Hope Bosch will start doing this. I test rode a Haibike FS RX and the smallest frame was still a bit too large, especially for my wife.
 

Chris Nolte

Well-Known Member
How tall are you and your wife 4REEE? Maybe you should get a hard tail with a suspension seatpost.

Chris
 

4REEE

New Member
@Chris: I'm 5' 5" and my wife is 5' nothing. There was no stand over clearance for me (my inseam is 28" with shoes on).
 

Chris Nolte

Well-Known Member
@Chris: I'm 5' 5" and my wife is 5' nothing. There was no stand over clearance for me (my inseam is 28" with shoes on).
This is not an uncommon request. There are Bosch powered hard tail bikes that will fit, like the Felt Sporte or perhaps the Ninee or the Haibike RX 29 if you want more of a mountain bike style. I've setup some eMTB's with dropper seatposts to accommodate shorter riders, it's not totally the intended use for a dropper seatpost, but I've found it to work pretty well.
 

John L.

Member
This Yamaha system looks really cool. Love that it will accommodate double chainrings for hill climbing.
 

Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
I'm not sure what delay, a few cranks of the pedals, they are referring to on the Bosch, mine gets going right away and I sometimes feel it bite when I'm resting my foot on a pedal at a stop, holding breaks as usual. 3.5 hours of hillclimbing in sport & turbo equivalents seems overstated, did they include breaks to take selfies? If not that is crazy range for what is probably a 400 watt hour battery. I suspect that blog was hyped up on EPO, but if not congratulations to Yamaha and future owners of the sduro product line. -S
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
FYI - That drive is currently restricted to 15mph, and conforms to EN 15194. As such, it's not an S-pedelec. To the best of my knowledge, Yamaha does not (as of this writing) produce a drive unit that exceeds 15mph (25km/h) anywhere in the world. This is a voluntary marketing choice by Yamaha, rather than an administrative limit imposed by the EU. Even if you buy the bike in Germany or Switzerland (which both have more tolerant laws for S-Pedelecs than most EU countries), it will still be restricted to 15mph. If you import directly from Germany, you will have to tune the drive (i.e. derestrict it), which may void the warranty and make the bike illegal, depending on your local legislation.
Working with Curry tech is The proper way to obtain an SDuro, then. Curry might be able to get a speed dongle, or some software to update the firmware.

the 2014 Yamaha did not have a USB port. I did not notice one on the 2015 motor, either.

I also contacted Giant in the US. They had no interest in helping me. I emailed Giant Germany, but have not heard back. I suppose I also have to accept the 15 mph restriction with Giant, too.

I would rather wait a year, until they offer what I want. The tech will only improve. Time is on my side.
 
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Chris Nolte

Well-Known Member
I've ridden the Yamaha drive and it's a far cry from being superior to the Bosch system. I would be careful about making speculations about some of this stuff based on what you read on the web because there will often be misinformation. Haibike's Sduro might be offered in the US next spring, but the details are still being worked out. It's possible that we won't see them for two years, as Yamaha will need to redevelop the motor for the US market.

The issue I found with the Yamaha system is it's just not as refined as the Bosch system. It's not as smart. The perspective from Haibike is the Sduro is a VW GTI where the Bosch is a Porsche. Keep in mind any improvements at this point will be rather small. The next thing we'll see is the Nyon coming to the US and larger batteries (500Wh Bosch Battery). We might also see some marginal difference in the torque output, but that remains to be seen.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
I've ridden the Yamaha drive and it's a far cry from being superior to the Bosch system. I would be careful about making speculations about some of this stuff based on what you read on the web because there will often be misinformation. Haibike's Sduro might be offered in the US next spring, but the details are still being worked out. It's possible that we won't see them for two years, as Yamaha will need to redevelop the motor for the US market.

The issue I found with the Yamaha system is it's just not as refined as the Bosch system. It's not as smart. The perspective from Haibike is the Sduro is a VW GTI where the Bosch is a Porsche. Keep in mind any improvements at this point will be rather small. The next thing we'll see is the Nyon coming to the US and larger batteries (500Wh Bosch Battery). We might also see some marginal difference in the torque output, but that remains to be seen.
Chris,
Which model years are you referring to, 2014?

My main interest is the 2015 Motor Rotation sensor that integrates with the I2 Sine Wave controller. From a strictly technical standpoint, Sine Wave is far superior to traditional(i.e., square wave) motor controllers.

I want to be fair and accurate, because I would only cheat myself. How would you frame the comparison to be fair and accurate, like Consumer Reports?
 
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J.R.

Well-Known Member
I would rather wait a year, until they offer what I want. The tech will only improve. Time is on my side.
You can do this forever! There will always be a next big thing on the horizon and speculation written on the net for something great next year. You will always be waiting, not riding and time will run out. The technology available now was a dream just a couple years ago, take advantage and enjoy. Time isn't on yours or anyone's side.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
You can do this forever! There will always be a next big thing on the horizon and speculation written on the net for something great next year. You will always be waiting, not riding and time will run out. The technology available now was a dream just a couple years ago, take advantage and enjoy. Time isn't on yours or anyone's side.
I am an outsider to the bicycle community. My street is a 10% grade. All the roads in my neighborhood are 10-20% grades. My only viable option is running. I run up the 10% grade at 9mph, faster than the few cyclists who attempt it. Only a few serious cyclists pedal up it. The hill is only fun to descend, which seems to be about 50mph. The downhill speed scares me.

I want an eBike for transportation. I run two miles to the store and carry 10-35 pounds of groceries back. For example, I ran to the store twice last week.

An eBike could greatly help me. The best case for my store route (18% grade) is to run uphill with the bike in walk-assist mode -- run-assist mode. My friend who lives on the 18% grade can only pedal about 3mph.

What grade are the hills in your neighborhood?
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
@Mike leroy you can theorize ebikes forever but you won't ever know until you dive in. Few things in life are a sure thing! Trust me you will not be able to evaluate your needs by where I ride.

I started thinking about ebikes in the fall of 2013, just thinking! Half the time I would see an ebike while on my bike I thought e-bikers were "cheating", in retrospect I have no idea what they would have been cheating at. But I warmed to the idea and started reading, not contributing, reading. Specs, stories and advise. I watched Court's and Pet's videos and a couple other reviewers too.

I got to this community around late spring of 2014 and somewhat followed people here. People I thought had experiences I thought were valuable. Members like @Brambor @Shea N Encinitas @EddieJ @PowerMe @86 and still kicking @George S. @Court . And a few others here that are very honest, analytical and have experiences I can identify with. Follow these members, they will share their experiences. PowerMe doesn't even own an ebike but she is intelligent the way she goes about her research. Mind you I still was not a member here, just a reader.

I purchased an ebike early Fall, 2014 for the upcoming cold weather commuting season. That's when I joined this community and started to contribute and ask questions. I didn't get my ultimate dream ebike, I didn't know what that was anyway. I knew I could research ebikes forever and never get the perfect one. I've worked in commercial design, engineering and manufacturing for more than 30 years so I know there will always be something better. I figured I would get my feet wet and get a good yet moderately priced ebike and ride it for a year.

I continue to research and shop but I ride while doing it. For good or bad I'm hooked on ebikes now. I will continue to ride my road and mountain bikes but my X3 is there when I want a 35 mile blast with a couple thousand feet of climb. I'll have a better ebike this time next year (hopefully) because e-biking is a lot of fun, doing it, not reading it. Life is no good without some fun! :D