Has anyone noticed this shift in reported claims?

EULITTLB

Active Member
In fact, it's made of more traditional steel, though unlike many boutique bike vendors out there, Sondor is making all the components himself. That, he explained to me, was the key to the sub-$500 price: by producing everything, rather than piecing together off-the-shelf parts, he can keep the costs down.

The current example, which sits in a modular hub at the center of the rear wheel, is a 380 WH direct-drive motor: with the swappable Li-Ion battery, it's good for around 30 miles Sondors says.

At the other end of the journey, the hydraulic brakes brought the whole 45 pound bike to a halt without complaint,

Chris Davies - http://www.slashgear.com/storm-ebike-electrifies-the-fat-wheel-hands-on-02367030/
 

JoePah

Well-Known Member
In fact, it's made of more traditional steel, though unlike many boutique bike vendors out there, Sondor is making all the components himself. That, he explained to me, was the key to the sub-$500 price: by producing everything, rather than piecing together off-the-shelf parts, he can keep the costs down.

The current example, which sits in a modular hub at the center of the rear wheel, is a 380 WH direct-drive motor: with the swappable Li-Ion battery, it's good for around 30 miles Sondors says.

At the other end of the journey, the hydraulic brakes brought the whole 45 pound bike to a halt without complaint,

Chris Davies - http://www.slashgear.com/storm-ebike-electrifies-the-fat-wheel-hands-on-02367030/

Yeah that doesn't look like good information as far as the production bike is concerned.. Who know what bike Chris Davies tested?

Look at the large Sondor thread...
None of those specs you quoted are valid any longer.
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Joe, this was at the beginning of Feb 15 after a year apparently of working on it. The bike was "brought to market" with the spec above, at the price point we are discussing things are tight beyond belief - Court too needs to take note that my skepticism is well-founded and pretty well-researched! We have gone from a bike that is an affordable bike because Sondors claims he is a manufacturing genius and produces all the parts required, with a 380w dd motor and hydraulic brakes etc, quoted performance specs to this - a bike that weighs 59 lbs, with a 350w geared motor, with cables brakes with far less performance than advertised (yet the indiegogo campaign still has misleading and inaccurate figures stated). My belief that he doesn't know wtf he is doing and is lying through his teeth is strong, making it up as he goes along with a team of what, 2 people plus an ad agency? To supply this sort of demand, to deal with shipping queries, doa issues etc? There are no designs or drawings whatsoever, there is only one bike and no doubt there will be endless delays and excuses - if contributors are lucky and they actually receive something, anything. The demo day was pretty poor, 1 minute ride with pedestrians all over the place, when asked to take the bike on the sand it was a no-no. Tears before bedtime for sure.
 
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JoePah

Well-Known Member
Joe, this was at the beginning of Feb 15 after a year apparently of working on it. The bike was "brought to market" with the spec above, at the price point we are discussing things are tight beyond belief - Court too needs to take note that my skepticism is well-founded and pretty well-researched! We have gone from a bike that is an affordable bike because Sondors claims he is a manufacturing genius and produces all the parts required, with a 380w dd motor and hydraulic brakes etc, quoted performance specs to this - a bike that weighs 59 lbs, with a 350w geared motor, with cables brakes with far less performance than advertised (yet the indiegogo campaign still has misleading and inaccurate figures stated). My belief that he doesn't know wtf he is doing and is lying through his teeth is strong, making it up as he goes along with a team of what, 2 people plus an ad agency? To supply this sort of demand, to deal with shipping queries, doa issues etc? There are no designs or drawings whatsoever, there is only one bike and no doubt there will be endless delays and excuses - if contributors are lucky and they actually receive something, anything. The demo day was pretty poor, 1 minute ride with pedestrians all over the place, when asked to take the bike on the sand it was a no-no. Tears before bedtime for sure.

I question what chris Davies heard and saw vs what he wrote. The bike in his article looks exactly like the demo bike. It clearly doesn't have hydraulic brakes. And if he bothered looking at that motor he would have seen its a geared motor.

Storm showed up with the bike for people to see and ride. That's pretty remarkable during crowd funding campaign. Overall people seemed satisfied. The nature of these projects is always one of change. Those who are impatient or expect perfection shouldn't be a contributor. And offering insurance is a nice touch by indiegogo.

For $500 it's a bargain ecruiser that looks great
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Hi Joe - perhaps Chris Davies was just making things up then and should not be a Journo if he cannot distinguish cabled brakes from hydraulic ones etc. That info must have come from somewhere! Did he just make up that Sondors claimed to making the bike and its parts in-house? Serious question, wouldn't you be a bit peeved if you had pledged on the basis on the claims/specs that were stated that it appears are subject to change at any time, including colours? Weight up 33%? The thing is we are being sold the bike as a $1300 SRP bike but then trying to justify whether it can be built for $500? The price is going to rise as it is doing, currently the price is just short of $900 inclusive of shipping, goodness knows if that includes a battery or whether separate shipping for the battery is included - does this show a commitment to an affordable bike? Personally I think not. I am the first to support anyone who wants to upset the applecart so-to-speak in business terms, however not when there is a high risk of people being less than satisfied/indifferent or losing their money. The insurance is pants - the price:insurance charge ratio shows how high risk this is - and they claim their team has verified manufacturing capability etc!!!
 
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EULITTLB

Active Member
20150131085822-Storm-eBike_intro-01_zps2b653cc7.JPG Here it is in black and white - what can have possibly changed since launch for the weight to increase, the power of the motor to drop, the range to now be 50 miles with pedal assist (nearer 30 miles maybe, in fact 20 miles if you pedal as well, some think 15 miles...) and the claim for the battery to fully charge in 90 minutes, nope they are still peddling that one! Thanks to @biknut for this graphic and others.

20150131085822-Storm-eBike_intro-01_zps2b653cc7.JPG
 
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wa5

Well-Known Member
Just had a look at Storms posts on facebook, it seems that everytime anybody asks a question that might have the slightest negative connotation, the "true believers" come straight back with "Shill " and "Troll".

Perhaps this isn't something Bikenut is doing of his own free will.... Perhaps it is just a standard part of the indoctrination that may go on at the Storm owners (hah.. no body owns one yet lol) facebook page?

Any Deprogrammers live around Bikenuts place?

interesting the parallels between Storm and Elio..
http://www.eliomotors.com/
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
I'm not a "contributor", But the Storm is the reason I'm here, I joined this forum to find out as much about the bike as I could, with a view to purchasing one. (I've owned an E bike in the past as well as a couple of petrol powered ones)

From my observations and queries, both here and a few other places. I came to the conclusion that (in my opinion), crowdfunding is to risky to put my money into it.

So, I am not an "owner", but to be fair, nobody else here is either.

Why am I here talking about something I don't own? Same reason I talk about Daytonas, Superbirds, Valiants, Galaxies, GT Falcons, Boeing 747s, B17s, Canada, America, Twin Cam (4age) Corollas, Queen, Billy Joel, Science Fiction, Zombies and God only knows what else.. Because they interest me, and I enjoy talking about these things/ people / places with like minded enthusiasts.

Just because I am interested in something, that doesn't make me a one eyed supporter of that thing. Just because I like Queen, it doesn't mean I'm interested in saving the Badgers or stereo optical photography (two things that Brian May ... Queens Guitarist enjoys talking about... ).. Same with the Stondors, Its a good looking bike that at $500 appears to be good value.. but I see enough red flags to make me nervous, apparently a few others do to.. and we talk about that here.

I think, between my (and others) more cynical view and that of somebody who is totally behind the product like Bikenut. We balance each other out. hopefully anybody who reads through all that we have written here, can make a more informed decision before throwing their money away / making the best investment of their lives :) .

As I've said previously, if the Sondors was available on Ebay with pay pal protection, I'd own one.
 
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PowerMe

Well-Known Member
Thank you. I'm trying to determine who has skin in the game, so to speak. I do not. This bike is not my thing and even if it was it would be too large for me.
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
on the Storm Facebook page, it says. "the worlds most affordable E bike. Priced under $500 for a limited time."

Would that statement be legally binding? IE they state that for $500 (now more) you get the "worlds cheapest E bike".. That sounds like a statement to me.. No mention of contributions. what they have stated is that for X amount of money .. you get a bike.. sounds pretty cut and dried.. wonder if that would be enough to bring 2.0 and go go into any group action should this project crash and burn..
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Personally I think so - I am sure I was reading somewhere on the T's an C's on Indiegogo that funding for an idea of concept is totally different for that for outright purchases. But here is the rub, before you click to make your contribution.......... (Sorry Brambor for repeating this with my emphasis)

By clicking 'Continue', you acknowledge that you understand that you are contributing to a work-in-progress and not making a direct purchase. Perks are managed by the campaigners and cannot be guaranteed by Indiegogo. Your click also acknowledges that you agree to the Indiegogo Terms of Use.
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
I suspect a good lawyer would tear those t & cs apart in a minute flat. .. especially if there was a big juicy class action involved
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
I agree, but what Sondors et al are banking on is coming up with something that doesn't meet the specs as advertised and when dealing with the fallout, hoping that people can't be bothered to join together and fight this, life is too short etc. Who knows, lets wait until they answer my questions, reasonably put, and hopefully this is part of the pressure which will force them to deliver something, anything.