Help finding FS/G510/Gates bike..

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Well, I've come to the point in research and trying several models of bikes that I absolutely have to have a FS IGH MTB with Gates drive..

Unfortunately, I realize that the only two e-bikes that have this (that I found here) are the Riese & Muller and Nicolai bikes of Germany. I guess they have the only proprietary belt tensioner systems on a mid-drive frame right now?

I also was completely underwhelmed with the 80Nm of torque on the Bosch and Yamaha mid-drives. No way am I paying $4k+ for that weakness. I'd rather buy a basic e-bike and save up until I can afford what I want..

However, it seems like I may have to build the rest on my own. Does anyone have any leads on a powerful controller, motor, battery system on a FS frame with Gates? I could modify the rest of the system. Not sure I could build my own belt tensioner but I'm up for the challenge..
This and...

You’re the worst kind of bike snob and proud of it.

Not everyone has to or want to ride what you ride. That doesn’t make them or their rides inferior.
...this.
 

EBRQuest

Member
This and...


...this.

Being a person who has respect for what kind of astronomical work goes into a superior product doesn't make that person a snob. Just like anyone who has a preference for something or appreciation. Snobbery is attaching your identity to such thing, or lifestyle, and judging others as lesser because they can't afford or have or understand it. It's a crutch for a character deficiency..

I doubt Riese & Muller are snobs. They are obsessed engineers, as evidenced by their design. Unfortunately, I'm sure many of their customers are. It sucks that cool people can't have access to good things. Bothers me all the time. The world is very unfair..
 

onlineaddy

Well-Known Member
Being a person who has respect for what kind of astronomical work goes into a superior product doesn't make that person a snob. Just like anyone who has a preference for something or appreciation. Snobbery is attaching your identity to such thing, or lifestyle, and judging others as lesser because they can't afford or have or understand it. It's a crutch for a character deficiency..
This ^
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
I meant the OP was asking for a very expensive solution (which doesn't exist) , and he got answers. Not only from me.

There is a meme called "While in the western world (something happens) ... (something opposite) happens in Soviet Russia". Let me try.

"In Europe, a cyclist rides e-bike. In Soviet Russia, e-bike rides a cyclist". Only it is not Soviet Russia 😃

I only can mention onlineaddy offended me first by weird words about penis envy. I'm afraid it is quite opposite, the envy.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Yes, I'm sure Freud would have a term for your condition. You whine about ebikes with throttles and/or more power than you have in Europe, claiming they are not ebikes. You wax poetic about how MTB is a precisely defined type of a bike and how other parts of the world "understand cycling better". But you are happy to throw a derestrictor on your eMTB. Actions speak louder than words. Face it, you are envious of what you cannot have.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
If I wanted e-motorbike, I would have already got it. Yet, unlike you @TomD, I don't want be ridden by bike. I'm a cyclist and I'm riding e-bikes.
P.S. Traditional MTB have no restrictor at all.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
You have a bike with an electric motor. The rest amounts to rationalizing your superiority because it meets some arbitrary criteria whether it be power, throttle or something else (but conveniently not speed limit) such that you can smugly claim to be a cyclist.
 

EBRQuest

Member
The passion for this stuff stirs up real feelings! Better that than the boring fakeness of most of business I guess. Man, I just got back from tearing it up on my little e-scooter. So fucking sweet, empty streets and the stars were out. I used to be a hardcore cyclist and put disrespect on any kid who came into my shop wanting an e-device. Nope! Not now! These things are the s*it. You can get as much of a workout as you want or just chill and commute. It's the future.

I was in a dump mood after dealing with government paperwork all day. Now I feel like a kid again! Anyway, wanted to lighten the mood around here. Lightens me up when I get a good ride in.. I'm thinking about that Exess bike again. I just want the most speed possible..

The problem is, I can't get one bike that does everything. I really can't. Speed kills..

..boredom! Haha..

By the way, I did write Exess this afternoon, so I need to check my e-mail and see if they send bikes to Boston. Maybe all the Germans who live here will warm their tendency to make an exception.. lol.. anyway, I will report..

I was also thinking about one last thing. You know what is one of the most sublime parts of this to me? I love gliding along, doing little stunts, whatever. It's the silence. How quiet the motors are. That's one thing they forget to mention about direct drives! They are so quiet. I'll miss going to a 3000W mid-drive partially because I know it will rattle and whine more than a silky quiet direct, right on the hub. These little scooters are underrated: you get to glide along in absolute silence with good acceleration because of the tiny wheel diameter. You can literally sneak up on a cop with these things (don't recommend it)..
 
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banshee28

New Member
Yea lots of good stuff here ... 🍿
Like they say different strokes for different folks.... However I do see why many don't really use or need a throttle for certain MTB riding, so that was good to understand, as I really dont have much MTB exp.
I would like one still just to have esp. if I dont want to pedal on longer open trails and such!
Yea my scooter with the hub motor is nearly silent too! I can sneak up on people walking and still be going 20Mph and they would never hear me as I go flying by. Not that I do that, as I am mostly on the streets and they should be on the sidewalk :D
 

EBRQuest

Member
@EBRQuest Why not a Travalanche since you’re in the U.S.? It is essentially the Exess bike.

I'm still putting feelers out and figuring out what to do, but yeah, I may do that..

Throttle option is king. That and the power output are the reasons I started looking at Bafang and CYC motors. Otherwise, I'd have a lot more to look at..
 

EBRQuest

Member
Had a new experience last night renting a bike if this helps others. So, the only IGH that are known to be able to handle the torque of the G510 are Rohloff and Kindernay.. and Enviolo (but the spec sheet won't tell you that). Other hubs have failed in various tests. However, given the sensitivity of SA and Shimano hubs to shifting under load (and design of the load dogs in some hubs), I want to say this is probably due mostly to user error (I say that as a mech). I mean that, if there's an error in load application, or a spike in load, yes these drives are more prone to fail. If you're careful, you can still get thousands of miles out of them.

Anyway, I rode this Enviolo. Previously hated the hub for two reasons: (1) you can feel the loss of efficiency (87%?), and (2) the grip shift design (which is ALL they have) sucks! The reason why it sucks is well, grip shifts number one. It fucks up your position on the bar while you shift, reducing your power output. The more specific thing though, is that there is always play in the system. You have to be very careful shifting in one direction (which is not easy when you're cranking on a bike) to get to the gear ratio you need. The range is so compressed on the shifter, that you easily switch past your desired ratio. It's like trying to pick up rice with chop sticks while you're cranking at full power.

So yeah, these are the actual reasons why Enviolo won't ever be on race bikes. That and the weight, no way.. lol..

However, the thing can take torque. Way more torque than any other IGH technically, because you are only limited by the heat capacity of the internal transmission fluid. I don't know what this limit is, but it's significantly higher than what is listed on the Fallbrook website. The other thing is they are adding this system called 'Automatiq' to the hub now, which uses a servo connected by bluetooth to control the gearing ratio. If this system works precisely, that solves the above problems. So, with Enviolo I would say that 'Automatiq' is technically a base level solution to their engineering failures, and not an 'add-on' in any regard. Can't say that publicly though! People crack me up..

Anyway, I'm thinking about modding an existing G510 bike now with building a wheel around this system and installing Gates with a belt snubber. Rear triangle can be modified and it would be a fun project. This opens up the range for a ton more bikes to be considered, and allows me to build that ultimate commuter at a fraction of the cost, with more features than the R&M. Gotta get that throttle.. lol..

So, I'd add that in my experience Enviolo is pretty theoretically awesome with a motor drive and the auto servo installed. Changes the way this system feels on a bike. Unsprung mass is an issue, so yeah, these things will never be on racing bikes, but as this system evolves and is applied in this manner, the public approval will greatly increase for it. Just my $0.02..
 
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