HELP PLEASE - New KT 36/48SVPR 20A controller and KT LCD8H for my Ecotric 20" fat tire folder

BMcD

New Member
So I'm setting up my new controller wiring connectors to match my ecotric 36V 500w motor, PAS, brakes and throttle. I get to the 6 pin motor connector and the ecotric has #1 Red +5V #2 Wht Speed sensor #3 Blk Gnd #4 Yel SA #5 Blu SB #6 Grn SC and big Motor phase wires Yel=A Blu=B Grn=C . KT Diagram has #1 Red +5V #2 Wht Speed sensor #3 Blk Gnd #4 Blu SA #5 Grn SB #6 Yel SC and big Motor phase wires Blu=A Grn=B Yel=C So I'm not sure what to do - Match color or function? What will happen if out of phase? Thanks-BMcD
 
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harryS

Well-Known Member
-Three heavy wires on the KT with bullet plugs. Three heavy wires came out of the Ecotric with bullet plugs. Those are the phases.
-Six thin wires on the six pin 1x6 Ecotric connector. Six thin wires for the KT, although it uses a 2x3 connector. These are the motor sensor wires.

Knowing the functions, then match by color. I've put that same controller into my Ecotric 20" fat tire bike.

KT and my Ecotric used the same color scheme for the motor wiring. I've used maybe five different brands of controllers, and everyone seems to do the motor wires the same way. Maybe I'm lucky, as there are reports of oddball companies making up their own color code.

The throttle and PAS sensor will need a look at the controller diagram. I believe you will find that KT and Ecotric flipped the plug genders on these two, which makes for more work. And KT uses 3 pin commector for the brakes instead of the 2 pin connect. I'm always replacing those with two pin.

You'll have to set up the LCD8H P and C parameters too. I don't know the LCD8 offhand. I use the LCD3. Probably the same.
 

BMcD

New Member
Thanks Harry S, I'm still confused as ecotrics wire diagram is different from KT diagram for the motor and hall sensor phase/color assignments - I'll try to attach them so you can take a look.
 

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AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I had this issue when installing my new MAC motor on my KT equipped bike. You're pretty much on your own getting the sequence correct. The color coding on either side is NOT universal, so the color of the wires are of no help when trying to match one side to the other.

I dug in and found the firing order for the MAC motor and for the KT controller. I matched #1 on both sides, then 2 and 3. I matched this color sequence using it again on the sensor wires. Worked like a charm. Got it right on the first try.

If you happen to get it backwards, no big deal. You can usually reverse any 2 of the 3 wires to correct. Don't forget to do phase AND sensor though.

Firing order may be shown as ABC (as shown in the KT diagram above) or they may be listed as 1, 2, and 3. Looking at your diagrams, it looks like the blue controller wire should go to the yellow motor wire. The green controller wire to the motor's "U" wire (whatever color that is), and the yellow controller wire to the green motor wire. Do the same thing to the sensor wires, and hopefully you'll be good to go. If not, you only have 8 more possibilities.

When testing, use the tiniest bit of throttle to see what happens. If it's right and the wheel starts turning you're good to go. If not, it may buzz or move with some type of jerky motion, or it may not do anything at all. If it's not right, don't give it more power. You don't want to smoke those sensors!

Last, regarding that white speed sensor wire. I'm not at all familiar with you motor, but if it's a gear drive, you may find that the speedo will work normally when under power, and drop to 0 when coasting. That's going to take an external speed sensor to fix. They're cheap, and amount to a magnet attached to a spoke and a sensor to pick up that signal. The KT controller wiring diagram you have supplied shows that this controller is not set up for an external speed control input. If I were in your situation, I would splice into the sensor wires, and use the red, black and white wires to connect the external speed sensor (it will be 3 wires as well). -Al
 
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harryS

Well-Known Member
It looks like this in reality. And the Ecotric diagram is wrong. There's no white wire going into the 1x6 connector, because that controller does not support a speed sensor. However, there will be a white wire in the motor cable.

Wiring_1.jpg


When you see it, it would make no sense to take the thin wires from 1x6 connector and mix them with the thicker phase wires just because they gave the same label assigned in a wiring diagram.

The Ecotric uses the 9 pin motor connector, and pretty much all the guys that use this connector use the standard wiring colors.

Radmotors, as far as I know, uses a nine pin connector, but they flipped it around so that the larger diamtere female side is on the motor, so it won't go thru the 12mm axle nut, THey may have even changed colors.

SInce I like to use connectors, this is a prototype of what could be used to go from the KT plug to the existing Ecotric plug. The KT controller has the white wire for the speed sensor built in, as does the cable on the Ecotric motor. I didn't do my actual swap this way, I had a spare white connector that I spliced to the Ecotric harness, but having an adapter would make it easy to go back. Similar adapters could be made for throttle/PAS.

Wiring-2.jpg


Gotta go turn over the bird in the oven. Have a happy holiday!
 
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BMcD

New Member
I had this issue when installing my new MAC motor on my KT equipped bike. You're pretty much on your own getting the sequence correct. The color coding on either side is NOT universal, so the color of the wires are of no help when trying to match one side to the other.

I dug in and found the firing order for the MAC motor and for the KT controller. I matched #1 on both sides, then 2 and 3. I matched this color sequence using it again on the sensor wires. Worked like a charm. Got it right on the first try.

If you happen to get it backwards, no big deal. You can usually reverse any 2 of the 3 wires to correct. Don't forget to do phase AND sensor though.

Firing order may be shown as ABC (as shown in the KT diagram above) or they may be listed as 1, 2, and 3. Looking at your diagrams, it looks like the blue controller wire should go to the yellow motor wire. The green controller wire to the motor's "U" wire (whatever color that is), and the yellow controller wire to the green motor wire. Do the same thing to the sensor wires, and hopefully you'll be good to go. If not, you only have 8 more possibilities.

When testing, use the tiniest bit of throttle to see what happens. If it's right and the wheel starts turning you're good to go. If not, it may buzz or move with some type of jerky motion, or it may not do anything at all. If it's not right, don't give it more power. You don't want to smoke those sensors!

Last, regarding that white speed sensor wire. I'm not at all familiar with you motor, but if it's a gear drive, you may find that the speedo will work normally when under power, and drop to 0 when coasting. That's going to take an external speed sensor to fix. They're cheap, and amount to a magnet attached to a spoke and a sensor to pick up that signal. The KT controller wiring diagram you have supplied shows that this controller is not set up for an external speed control input. If I were in your situation, I would splice into the sensor wires, and use the red, black and white wires to connect the external speed sensor (it will be 3 wires as well). -Al
Thanks Al, I got it working - the hall and phase wires colors and functions matched as HarryS mentioned. The Kt diagram showed different and that's what made me hesitant. Just to let ya know the speedo works when coasting also - couldn't find who makes the motor so that made me experiment with the settings to get it right.With your help I learned a lot and really enjoy my ebike now! Thanks again - BMcD
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Absolutely love those happy endings. Thanks for taking the time to get back with us!

Wiring on these things often treated as a black art. It's not that tough for a determined DIY'er!
 

BMcD

New Member
It looks like this in reality. And the Ecotric diagram is wrong. There's no white wire going into the 1x6 connector, because that controller does not support a speed sensor. However, there will be a white wire in the motor cable.

View attachment 42104

When you see it, it would make no sense to take the thin wires from 1x6 connector and mix them with the thicker phase wires just because they gave the same label assigned in a wiring diagram.

The Ecotric uses the 9 pin motor connector, and pretty much all the guys that use this connector use the standard wiring colors.

Radmotors, as far as I know, uses a nine pin connector, but they flipped it around so that the larger diamtere female side is on the motor, so it won't go thru the 12mm axle nut, THey may have even changed colors.

SInce I like to use connectors, this is a prototype of what could be used to go from the KT plug to the existing Ecotric plug. The KT controller has the white wire for the speed sensor built in, as does the cable on the Ecotric motor. I didn't do my actual swap this way, I had a spare white connector that I spliced to the Ecotric harness, but having an adapter would make it easy to go back. Similar adapters could be made for throttle/PAS.

View attachment 42105

Gotta go turn over the bird in the oven. Have a happy holiday!
Thanks Harry! Got it going great and figured out the settings(do they compare to yours?). Don't know why Ecotric would publish that diagram as it doesn't match as you said. Liked the upgrade so much that I ordered another KT controller/display today for wife's bike. The color display is easy to read in bright sunlight as well - thanks again!
 

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harryS

Well-Known Member
Glad to hear that you got it working. I saw that Ecotric manual in their facebook page and also downloaded, but not until this week did I realize it's for their LCD bikes.

Be nice if they put a Ecotric subforum here. A lot of owners out there.

I believe settings are similar between LCD8 and an LCD3. Are you getting the right speed?

I think P2 should be 1, but if you can put a probe on the white wire and spin the wheel backwards for 1 revolution, the signal should flip the same number of times as P2. This also works for a probe on one of the Hall signals if you want a more accurate value for P1.

You should be able to have the throttle always on, with C4 =3. I have one bike set like like that, but in general, it's safer to have it only active when PAS is active.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
My vote would be always on. I use it for blasting across a crosswalk from a stop, and use the throttle for just a second when first pulling away from any stop. Seems to be a big help in that instant you are first getting your balance.

Noteworthy maybe, is we have thumb throttles. Hitting one of those accidentally would be unusual. Not that it's used that much, but seems easier on our wrists as well. My vote anyway.
 

BMcD

New Member
Glad to hear that you got it working. I saw that Ecotric manual in their facebook page and also downloaded, but not until this week did I realize it's for their LCD bikes.

Be nice if they put a Ecotric subforum here. A lot of owners out there.

I believe settings are similar between LCD8 and an LCD3. Are you getting the right speed?

I think P2 should be 1, but if you can put a probe on the white wire and spin the wheel backwards for 1 revolution, the signal should flip the same number of times as P2. This also works for a probe on one of the Hall signals if you want a more accurate value for P1.

You should be able to have the throttle always on, with C4 =3. I have one bike set like like that, but in general, it's safer to have it only active when PAS is active.
I believe the speed is correct. I used a both a garmin gps / TomTom gps and changed the P2 setting till I came up with the P2=5. I've asked ecotric and even the company that makes the bike for specs on motor and the PAS sensor but they don't understand-keep sending me owners manual. The C4 set at 0 gives me "zero startup throttle" and seems to work well. I don't understand the C4=3 setting-manual says"zero startup/zero gear effectively". On the C5 setting it runs great at "10" but do you know what the 0,1and 2 settings do? The manual says something about 1,2,and 3 gear slow start/max current value and I say "huh?"
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
OK. I checked mine too. It also made no difference on my speed if I set P2=5. With 0, no speedometer. With 6, it indeed divides the speed by 6, but 5 seems to work the same as 1.

C1 is for the number of magnets on your PAS sensor. It doesn't matter much, but I think the one piece PAS sensor used by Ecotric is 12 magnets. Hence C1 is 5, 6, 7.

C2 always is 0

C3 sets what PAS level on powerup as in C3 =0 starts in PAS 0. C-3 starts in PAS 3

C4 is used in combo with P4. With P4=0, and C3=3, throttle is always on. I've had some mishaps with that, so I keep throttle off on start-up.

C5 is best at 10 unless you want to run slower.
 

BMcD

New Member
OK. I checked mine too. It also made no difference on my speed if I set P2=5. With 0, no speedometer. With 6, it indeed divides the speed by 6, but 5 seems to work the same as 1.

C1 is for the number of magnets on your PAS sensor. It doesn't matter much, but I think the one piece PAS sensor used by Ecotric is 12 magnets. Hence C1 is 5, 6, 7.

C2 always is 0

C3 sets what PAS level on powerup as in C3 =0 starts in PAS 0. C-3 starts in PAS 3

C4 is used in combo with P4. With P4=0, and C3=3, throttle is always on. I've had some mishaps with that, so I keep throttle off on start-up.

C5 is best at 10 unless you want to run slower.
Thanks Harry, your help is much appreciated. BMcD