Help with a FS eMTB $3-4k

banshee28

New Member
Hello all, new here and ready to get started with my first ebike! I currently ride ATV's and such off-road mostly in National forest trails and such, so would like to venture into an eMTB on various bike trails and such next!!
Honestly I will prob use lots of throttle, so PAS is not highest priority, lol.

Ideally I am very interested in a IGH and Belt setup (cleaner looking setup and lower maint.), but for a FS, that may not be possible (at least cheaply) just yet.

So looking for high quality components at a very reasonable cost! (aren't we all, lol)

So here is what I am thinking:

Frey AM1000, EX, EX Pro.

I think for the price point and components this is hard to beat? I also like the idea of the motor not being "locked/restricted" like some of the OEM ones, and this should go over 28mph if needed. I don't plan on commuting with this, but I like the idea of the extra power to be there if/when needed! Sounds like this also has 160Nm of torque which is the highest I have seen of any motor!

Now, I have seen where this Bafang M620 Ultra motor may have issues with the controller as far as how the power is delivered, so I would like some suggestions around this too. Also if I am mostly using throttle, does that matter as much?

I also am considering the bikesdirect 2021 Motobecane HAL eBoost TEAM.

www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/full-suspension-mountain-bikes/ebikes-hal-eboost-team-electric-mountain-bikes.htm

This seems really nice too, but what about the motor and its "restrictions"?

Would this be comparable in overall power and performance vs the Frey models? Its exactly at the same price point ~$4k.

Thanks...
 

troehrkasse

EBR Tech Lead
Staff member
Those look pretty comparable... but alas I don't have experience with either. I hear a lot of great things about Frey, but Motobecane is a name I don't see often in the Ebike space. In terms of the components and power Frey is indeed very hard to beat, but I've heard a lot of complaints about their support. My general impression of them is that once you have the bike, you're on your own for maintenance and repairs.

One thing though, you mention off-roading on national park trails - I would definitely check regulations for those trails first! A lot of them either flat-out don't allow ebikes, or they limit your power, and throttles are often not allowed.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Hello all, new here and ready to get started with my first ebike! I currently ride ATV's and such off-road mostly in National forest trails and such, so would like to venture into an eMTB on various bike trails and such next!! Honestly I will prob use lots of throttle, so PAS is not highest priority, lol. Ideally I am very interested in a IGH and Belt setup (cleaner looking setup and lower maint.), but for a FS, that may not be possible (at least cheaply) just yet. So looking for high quality components at a very reasonable cost! (aren't we all, lol) So here is what I am thinking:
Frey AM1000, EX, EX Pro. I think for the price point and components this is hard to beat? I also like the idea of the motor not being "locked/restricted" like some of the OEM ones, and this should go over 28mph if needed. I don't plan on commuting with this, but I like the idea of the extra power to be there if/when needed! Sounds like this also has 160Nm of torque which is the highest I have seen of any motor! Now, I have seen where this Bafang M620 Ultra motor may have issues with the controller as far as how the power is delivered, so I would like some suggestions around this too. Also if I am mostly using throttle, does that matter as much? I also am considering the bikesdirect 2021 Motobecane HAL eBoost TEAM.
www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/full-suspension-mountain-bikes/ebikes-hal-eboost-team-electric-mountain-bikes.htm
This seems really nice too, but what about the motor and its "restrictions"? Would this be comparable in overall power and performance vs the Frey models? It's exactly at the same price point ~$4k.
Thanks.
Welcome to EBR. 😉

I like both the Frey and the Moto... but they are back-ordered and will take a while to re-stock.

You may want to take a look at the Moto Bafang M600 and the Moto Shimano E8000 Pro that are available in September.

The Bafang has an integrated battery and a higher speed limit of 28mph.



1596257288056.png
 
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Nova Haibike

Well-Known Member
FYI, you cannot get a throttle with a Shimano motor, so that would rule out the Motobecane. You cannot get a throttle with Bosch, Brose, Panasonic, or Yamaha motors either.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
If you want a legit throttle go with one of the Ultra based bikes. On the M600 throttle is a big yawn (unless you go with something like Luna X1 with ludi controller that doubles current). When I hit throttle on my Luna X1 (stock controller) reminds me of the scene in spinal tap when they lower a 18" stonehenge prop with elves dancing around it. Throttle is good for smoothing out the unrefined torque sensing in lower PAS but beyond that I find it pretty much useless on the M600.
 
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banshee28

New Member
Thanks guys... Interesting about the Throttle options. Honestly I have yet even driven an ebike, but planned to use mostly throttle anyways. Maybe if I can feel the power and the real benefit of an an ebike, PAS would be more interesting. OTOH, I still think I would at least want a throttle avaiabe so not having one at all may be a deal breaker for these bikes without it!
 

banshee28

New Member
One thing though, you mention off-roading on national park trails - I would definitely check regulations for those trails first! A lot of them either flat-out don't allow ebikes, or they limit your power, and throttles are often not allowed.
Thanks, I have been concerned about this for a while now, and even hesitated to get an ebike due to this. However, looking at this post here, it seems like in FL (where I live) the bill has been recently passed where ebikes are considered pretty much exactly as normal bikes! Am I interpreting this correctly?

I am very exited about being able to ride in parks, forests, bike trails, etc here in FL...

 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
@banshee28,
Please look to various models of Giant Stance E+ 2021. These are respected e-MTBs from a Big Three manufacturer.
If you can afford it, go for the Pro model because of more powerful motor.

P.S. MTBers don't use the throttle. If you want to cold-start uphill, you just stand on the pedals on a Giant e-MTB; these offer the "Zero Cadence" pedalling assistance, so the motor assists you from the moment you pushed the pedal. The assistance is so powerful you might do a wheelie unawares!
 

ElevenAD

Active Member
Biktrix Ultra FS has a throttle,160nm of torque and its $3499 you can also choose what size tires and rims you want
you can even do 26in Fat tire in the rear and 27. 5 up front,you can also choose a52v or 48v battery
1596349931396.png
 

banshee28

New Member
@banshee28,

P.S. MTBers don't use the throttle. If you want to cold-start uphill, you just stand on the pedals on a Giant e-MTB; these offer the "Zero Cadence" pedalling assistance, so the motor assists you from the moment you pushed the pedal. The assistance is so powerful you might do a wheelie unawares!
Thanks everyone for the replies. This is really helping me decide. This idea that MTBers that don't use throttle is interesting and since I have not really rode my MTB in the trails too much, maybe I need to reconsider if I really need the throttle! Coming from ridding ATV's and such, I figured I would/should have one even if I did not use it. I may also try to find a LBS and see if I can get some test rides to see how these really perform and then make a decision...
 

RandallS

Active Member
I test rode a Giant Stance and really liked it. I ended up with a Fathom with a Pro motor as I am using the bike as more of an all-round bike and decided that I wanted a hard tail for multiple reasons. I am of the opinion that with a Yamaha motor, like on the Giant bikes, you aren't going to miss the throttle. Power is immediately available, to the point where you really need to pay attention starting off if you have the power level cranked up.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone for the replies. This is really helping me decide. This idea that MTBers that don't use throttle is interesting and since I have not really rode my MTB in the trails too much, maybe I need to reconsider if I really need the throttle! Coming from ridding ATV's and such, I figured I would/should have one even if I did not use it. I may also try to find a LBS and see if I can get some test rides to see how these really perform and then make a decision...
You will not miss the throttle... much better to control the bike through pedal inputs that sync with regular mountain bike riding.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
I took my Luna X1 up an abandoned logging road yesterday. Mixed single and double track. I didn't use throttle once. Like FlatSix911 says, you have better control with pedal input. I barely got a workout in PAS 3 of 5 on the X1 (which is probably comparable to highest assist on a 250W nominal motor). Throttle can be useful if you are going over a section where you want to avoid pedal strike, but if you are fit enough to ride a regular MTB you should have no problem with a 250W nominal e-bike. It's going to be more like a biking experience than ATV experience. If you want the latter get an Ultra based bike, I have one but I would much rather ride my Luna X1 off road. If you find you want more power after test riding the Giant I would recommend the X1 as it will give you about twice as much power and throttle, but if you are looking for a FS eMTB with smoother response at low PAS the 250W mid drives like the Giant are the way to go.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Also, I am not sure where @Ravi Kempaiah is with the full suspension suspended rack e-bike that he is developing but if you are not in a hurry this would be on my short list. I think he is hoping to offer belt drive and IGH as well but these are going to take longer to develop and get right.
 

banshee28

New Member
Also, I am not sure where @Ravi Kempaiah is with the full suspension suspended rack e-bike that he is developing but if you are not in a hurry this would be on my short list. I think he is hoping to offer belt drive and IGH as well but these are going to take longer to develop and get right.
Actually from what I was reading on this setup, I would be interested in this too, the combo sounds like it has alot going for it. Decisions.. lol
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
I barely got a workout in PAS 3 of 5 on the X1 (which is probably comparable to highest assist on a 250W nominal motor).
It is not the power or even incredible torque that makes an e-MTB. What makes the electric mountain bike is:
  • The right geometry
  • The right components
  • Relatively light weight, since there are situation in which you actually need to carry your ebike (I admit Luna X1 is surprisingly lightweight. I only wonder how long the battery would last with the 2 kW motor).
Too high power and torque can even be dangerous. Think about slippery terrain, especially wet rocks. When I am on an incline, shifted down to the granny gear, and with PAS 5 on my Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro, standing on the pedal makes the bike do a wheelie, because as much as 520 W is instantly pumped to the motor, and the torque is 85 Nm. Mountain biking is about the rider's skill not about the power of the motor; that's why Turbo Levo SL which is underpowered and with low torque but it is really lighweight is so highly acclaimed.

If one can limit their ride to fire-roads only, fine. However, I have been riding morass, rocky single trail, and had to carry my Giant over obstacles such as large felled trees. No, I wouldn't like a monster like Luna X1 there, the one with the Chinese motor.

I advice watching the Electric Mountain Bike Network channel on YouTube. Only serious e-MTBs are discussed there. In all honesty, Giant e-MTBs have never been reviewed there, simply as Giant seems not to be interested to cooperate. Still, Giant e-MTBs are respected e-bikes from the Big Three company, and -- these are affordable.
 
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