Hey Group, I got my new Pioneer Allroad today.

Bike_On

Well-Known Member
My motive, making money

Why waste?

Spend smart, save surplus!
your motive.. just like Optibike and others OEMs.

Money spent on fun is not considered wasted.

Spend smart, save surplus! : If you are really smart and want to save, you would DIY and build your own ebike. Oh, but that would likely not be in line with the future legal classifications specified by Big Brash Brother. You would be out smarted.
 

MLB

Well-Known Member
The difference between cost and selling price is NOT Profit.
Every other cost (labor, insurance, office space, warehousing, shipping, postage, etc etc etc comes off first.
Profit is what is left (if you are lucky) after you pay for EVERYTHING else.

I respect your opinion but you are tilting at windmills. ;)
 

Jack Tyler

Active Member
Maybe it's just due to the l-o-n-g list of ebike brands here plus the absence of a current Optibike review from Court, but I'd missed researching Optibike until I ran into two excellent tutorial interviews with Jim Turner. I do have a question for you Optibike owners, but first wanted to point out to other visitors here like me that Bofeili branded 'sport ebikes' are now available on eBay. BUT it surely is a case of apples vs. oranges: steel frame, smaller battery with no reference to the Lithium battery chemistry, non-integrated controller, funky non-LCD display, only one (26") wheel size, and a 'disguised' seller (I can't tell who it is other than someone in Oregon, perhaps just a freight forwarder) who may offer zip in the form of customer service and does not allow returns. Given the earlier discussion about cheaper Bofeili-branded ebikes similar to Optibike, I thought I'd point that out. Cheaper, yes. Same or similar? Not from that seller, not even a little bit.

For folks like Allen & Greg, who bought Optibike products, do you know what is the source(s) of the chronically late deliveries? And @Optibike_Austen, I'd welcome an explanation from you, as well. I can imagine a variety of business-related reasons, some actually beneficial to the customer (e.g. a biz decision to avoid significant flooring/inventory financing to keep the price competitive) and others more worrisome (such as an unreliable manufacturer). The answer is certainly not just dock strikes. Given my move to SW Montana and to a town in a valley surrounded by mountains, the mid-drive system with lots of battery and lots of gears might be the best fit for my needs. And the owner praises here are surely encouraging. But whether fair or not, I'm always worried when a business can't reliably supply its product.

Thanks for all the helpful posts, everyone.

Jack
Jax, FL to Bozeman, MT
 
Maybe it's just due to the l-o-n-g list of ebike brands here plus the absence of a current Optibike review from Court, but I'd missed researching Optibike until I ran into two excellent tutorial interviews with Jim Turner. I do have a question for you Optibike owners, but first wanted to point out to other visitors here like me that Bofeili branded 'sport ebikes' are now available on eBay. BUT it surely is a case of apples vs. oranges: steel frame, smaller battery with no reference to the Lithium battery chemistry, non-integrated controller, funky non-LCD display, only one (26") wheel size, and a 'disguised' seller (I can't tell who it is other than someone in Oregon, perhaps just a freight forwarder) who may offer zip in the form of customer service and does not allow returns. Given the earlier discussion about cheaper Bofeili-branded ebikes similar to Optibike, I thought I'd point that out. Cheaper, yes. Same or similar? Not from that seller, not even a little bit.

For folks like Allen & Greg, who bought Optibike products, do you know what is the source(s) of the chronically late deliveries? And @Optibike_Austen, I'd welcome an explanation from you, as well. I can imagine a variety of business-related reasons, some actually beneficial to the customer (e.g. a biz decision to avoid significant flooring/inventory financing to keep the price competitive) and others more worrisome (such as an unreliable manufacturer). The answer is certainly not just dock strikes. Given my move to SW Montana and to a town in a valley surrounded by mountains, the mid-drive system with lots of battery and lots of gears might be the best fit for my needs. And the owner praises here are surely encouraging. But whether fair or not, I'm always worried when a business can't reliably supply its product.

Thanks for all the helpful posts, everyone.

Jack
Jax, FL to Bozeman, MT
 
I had ordered the 2013 version of the Allroad. I interacted with Neal and the reason he gave for my delay (4 mth), was that the batch/crate that contained my order had more "defects" than expected and I could get the 2014 version if I waited for the next crate. So I waited.
 
@Jack Tyler, If you're interested in the demo Allroad below, it may still be available...
------
(I'm on their mailing list, so get these emails once in a while)
Dear Phuong,
Today, we have a demo 2015 Pioneer Allroad . The bike is in excellent condition with 398 miles. This bike was used for demo rides in Boulder during the 2015 season and is ready for a new owner.

Pioneer Allroad $1995.00 cash or finance for $43 per month
Only 398 miles

A Perfect Time To Get Started Enjoying The Optibike Lifestyle of Personal Freedom!

Call 303-848-8385 to purchase today.
 

Jack Tyler

Active Member
@Allroad Commuter, thanks for mentioning the demo sale, Phuong. I wish I was able to consider that demo as I notice that Jim now has priced a new Allroad at $3500 and, given the broad, diverse selection of ebikes now, that's higher than I must spend for what I need. Which is a shame, since I think Optibike/Jim has created some pretty unique choices and I appreciate the 'trade up' and 'return' options he gives his customers. I have to wonder if the substantial price increases of the Allroad over the past two years is due not just to product improvements but also the high cost of living in Boulder...which ripples across the cost of both residential and commercial properties as well as salaries.
 

Bike_On

Well-Known Member
Maybe it's just due to the l-o-n-g list of ebike brands here plus the absence of a current Optibike review from Court, but I'd missed researching Optibike until I ran into two excellent tutorial interviews with Jim Turner. I do have a question for you Optibike owners, but first wanted to point out to other visitors here like me that Bofeili branded 'sport ebikes' are now available on eBay. BUT it surely is a case of apples vs. oranges: steel frame, smaller battery with no reference to the Lithium battery chemistry, non-integrated controller, funky non-LCD display, only one (26") wheel size, and a 'disguised' seller (I can't tell who it is other than someone in Oregon, perhaps just a freight forwarder) who may offer zip in the form of customer service and does not allow returns. Given the earlier discussion about cheaper Bofeili-branded ebikes similar to Optibike, I thought I'd point that out. Cheaper, yes. Same or similar? Not from that seller, not even a little bit.

For folks like Allen & Greg, who bought Optibike products, do you know what is the source(s) of the chronically late deliveries? And @Optibike_Austen, I'd welcome an explanation from you, as well. I can imagine a variety of business-related reasons, some actually beneficial to the customer (e.g. a biz decision to avoid significant flooring/inventory financing to keep the price competitive) and others more worrisome (such as an unreliable manufacturer). The answer is certainly not just dock strikes. Given my move to SW Montana and to a town in a valley surrounded by mountains, the mid-drive system with lots of battery and lots of gears might be the best fit for my needs. And the owner praises here are surely encouraging. But whether fair or not, I'm always worried when a business can't reliably supply its product.

Thanks for all the helpful posts, everyone.

Jack
Jax, FL to Bozeman, MT
Jack,

Optibike is notoriously late.... no excuses, they are very small... They moved operations from being in Boulder to Jim's residence outside of town.

I have owned and ridden an Opti 5 years. Don't have one now. I'm interested to get back on one, after a time with ddhubs.

They are expensive. I'd buy one from the optibike owners group on Google. Offers come up. They are not perfect. They need a PAS system on their 700W+ bikes. The SIMBB has much promise - low weight, 600W, decent battery size, normal looking, rack+accessories doable. Not much feedback on them to date. And YES, Court needs some updated reviews with Opti on their higher speed offerings.

Best-
Dan
 

Jack Tyler

Active Member
@Bike_On: Very helpful reply! Thanks, Dan. I very much appreciate you steering me to the Opti owners group at Google, too. I can't help but think that part of Opti's pricing is a function of their location. Boulder is not an inexpensive place to live, altho' I understand Jim has also upgraded the gear on the Allroad over the last year or two, so perhaps moving away from the cost of a retail store makes a lot of sense. And yes, the SIMBB really looks like (another) unique approach from Jim. But usually custom designs usually require a significant customer base to be feasible in the marketplace. Here's hoping it takes off.

Jack
 

Greg A

Member
Maybe it's just due to the l-o-n-g list of ebike brands here plus the absence of a current Optibike review from Court, but I'd missed researching Optibike until I ran into two excellent tutorial interviews with Jim Turner. I do have a question for you Optibike owners, but first wanted to point out to other visitors here like me that Bofeili branded 'sport ebikes' are now available on eBay. BUT it surely is a case of apples vs. oranges: steel frame, smaller battery with no reference to the Lithium battery chemistry, non-integrated controller, funky non-LCD display, only one (26") wheel size, and a 'disguised' seller (I can't tell who it is other than someone in Oregon, perhaps just a freight forwarder) who may offer zip in the form of customer service and does not allow returns. Given the earlier discussion about cheaper Bofeili-branded ebikes similar to Optibike, I thought I'd point that out. Cheaper, yes. Same or similar? Not from that seller, not even a little bit.

For folks like Allen & Greg, who bought Optibike products, do you know what is the source(s) of the chronically late deliveries? And @Optibike_Austen, I'd welcome an explanation from you, as well. I can imagine a variety of business-related reasons, some actually beneficial to the customer (e.g. a biz decision to avoid significant flooring/inventory financing to keep the price competitive) and others more worrisome (such as an unreliable manufacturer). The answer is certainly not just dock strikes. Given my move to SW Montana and to a town in a valley surrounded by mountains, the mid-drive system with lots of battery and lots of gears might be the best fit for my needs. And the owner praises here are surely encouraging. But whether fair or not, I'm always worried when a business can't reliably supply its product.

Thanks for all the helpful posts, everyone.

Jack
Jax, FL to Bozeman, MT
Jack,
I don't have inside knowledge of why it takes them so long to deliver. That is a question for them. I was made aware of the lead time when I ordered.
Mine arrived a few weeks later than they thought it would be.

I've run a business myself for near 25 years and "stuff" happens to delay things all the time. It's not something that would keep me from buying from them again as the bike is awesome and far exceeded my expectations in it's performance, and I've yet to have any issues with it. It also came with some nice upgrades that I hadn't anticipated.

Jim is a really good guy and treated me right. I'd probably deal directly with him if/when I order again.
 
I guess I should answer some of these questions on here

Delivery times are sometimes longer than expected for a lot of different reasons, some of which I don't want to discuss on a public forum, other reasons include random shipping delays of 2 or 3 weeks from overseas for the Allroads, or machine shops and part suppliers being late getting us parts for R series and SIMBB's. sometimes it can be a pretty dumb problem like an inventory error causing us to run out of a part, and then finding out our supplier is out of stock and 6 weeks out. For the last year or so we have been focusing a lot more on making everything run smoothly, getting our inventory system improved so we don't run out of parts, and just generally doing what we can to get customers their bikes on time.

The Allroad price increase from $3000 to $3500 is entirely because we buy just the frame and motor, controller etc from overseas and then assemble them in our shop with parts we've selected based on quality and value, compared to before when we bought the whole bike assembled and ready to go.
This way we are able to put a much better fork, headset bearings, wheels, tires, derailleurs, shifters, seat, handlebars, stem and other bits and pieces, for what we consider to be a small price increase compared to how much better of a bike the customer is getting. It also allows us to do better quality control and make sure the customer will get a bike with no issues
 

Jack Tyler

Active Member
Austen, thanks for your reply. Essentially, you've changed your manufacturing model so it's easy to imagine the ripple effect that brings with it.
 

Bike_On

Well-Known Member
I guess I should answer some of these questions on here

Delivery times are sometimes longer than expected for a lot of different reasons, some of which I don't want to discuss on a public forum, other reasons include random shipping delays of 2 or 3 weeks from overseas for the Allroads, or machine shops and part suppliers being late getting us parts for R series and SIMBB's. sometimes it can be a pretty dumb problem like an inventory error causing us to run out of a part, and then finding out our supplier is out of stock and 6 weeks out. For the last year or so we have been focusing a lot more on making everything run smoothly, getting our inventory system improved so we don't run out of parts, and just generally doing what we can to get customers their bikes on time.

The Allroad price increase from $3000 to $3500 is entirely because we buy just the frame and motor, controller etc from overseas and then assemble them in our shop with parts we've selected based on quality and value, compared to before when we bought the whole bike assembled and ready to go.
This way we are able to put a much better fork, headset bearings, wheels, tires, derailleurs, shifters, seat, handlebars, stem and other bits and pieces, for what we consider to be a small price increase compared to how much better of a bike the customer is getting. It also allows us to do better quality control and make sure the customer will get a bike with no issues
Opti-Austen,

For the Opti-purist side of me, I'd like to know if the overseas build for the Pioneer/City and the new carbon, are those motors built under the Optibike MBB patent that Jim has? I thought I read somewhere that those bikes do use the patent rights??
 
Opti-Austen,

For the Opti-purist side of me, I'd like to know if the overseas build for the Pioneer/City and the new carbon, are those motors built under the Optibike MBB patent that Jim has? I thought I read somewhere that those bikes do use the patent rights??
Yea its a very similar design to our R series MBB so it falls under our MBB patents