High Powered eBike Camping: 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime PHEV with 1500 Watt Inverter and 120V Outlet

BikeMike

Active Member
The suitability of a PHEV for cold weather camping is largely dependent upon the functioning of the high voltage (HV) battery with the ignition switch in the off position. Does the HV battery automatically turn on the gas engine when battery capacity diminishes? Sleeping in a car with an electric heater and an idling gas engine can be fatal. The 2021 Toyota RAV Prime PHEV is now available in limited quantities. I prefer the RAV4 Prime 1500W power supply modes over all PHEV vehicles, because it removes the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Skip to Post #16 for the arrive-with-80%-battery-charge resolution.
  1. Start with a fully charged battery
  2. Put drive mode into "Hold" at 80% battery charge.
  3. Recharge every two hours for 30 minutes (4:1 operation-to-charge ratio)
  4. Sleep in cargo area with heated blanket plugged into 110VAC outlet
    • The power supply mode must be HV battery only to avoid carbon monoxide poisoning

I am not considering any 2020 PHEV vehicles, because the 2021 options are much more promising.

The RAV4 Prime power supply mode feature is the standard against which all other vehicles will be judged. I am not aware of this feature on any other vehicle. I can live with the compromises the RAV4 brings, due to the power supply feature.

Use the following Venn diagram to match your ABC needs with the van capabilities

A: Recreational electric power needs
B: Sleeping needs
C: Cargo Space for ancillary needs like food, water, clothing, tools, entertainment, etc...
  • U: Unknown (starting point)
  • S: Symmetry equal balance or 1:1:1 ratio
    • :) With mobile kitchen/bathroom trailer
    • Poor aerodynamics reduces battery charge level
  • :(AB: Space compromised
    • Make a mobile kitchen/bathroom trailer
    • Put water, refrigerator, sink, shower, stove, appliances, food, etc..., in a small overlander trailer.
      • Some small trailer like motorcycle type in an aerodynamic teardrop shape.
    • 2,500 pound towing capacity.
    • Use car cargo area to sleep in. Plug electric blanket into car 110ACV outlet.
    • Some special mobile kitchen/bathroom trailer like Rivan pullout cooking utility
    • You can pack an awful lot of sophisticated technology into a four foot cube.
    • West Marine probably carries everything you need or desire.
    • https://www.egoe-nest.eu/en/nestbox/
  • SB: Comfort-orientated
  • BC: Underpowered
  • SC: Oversized
  • AC: Sleep compromised
  • SA: Overpowered

Venn2.png

Rivian pullout cooking utility.
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All you need is a simple trailer with household items in a plywood box. Perhaps, half the 8x8x8 Uhaul UBox size in an aerodynamic teardrop shape.

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BikeMike

Active Member
@BikeMike are these posts of vehicles you're considering for your bike touring? Are you documenting them here to aid in your decision making?
Precisely. I find educating myself about EVs a time-consuming task. I want to use the vehicle to bike along the Great Divide trail. I live in Denver, not far from the trail in Breckinridge.

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  1. Sleep
  2. Ventilation
    1. heated and/or ventilated seats that accommodate sleeping with a reclining feature
    2. diesel or electric air heater connected to car ventilation ducts
    3. Connect new fan(s) to existing car ducts for fresh air
    4. driven by hybrid battery
  3. Insulate
    1. windows
    2. partition between cargo and cabin areas
    3. ceiling
    4. floor
  4. Heat
    1. Air
      1. diesel or electric air heater
    2. Water
      1. Electric
    3. Food
      1. Electric induction
    4. Floor
      1. Electric radiant heat to prevent water from freezing
  5. Power, Generic
    1. Capacity and Duration
    2. 110V input charge, J1772 EV Jack or fast charge option
    3. Solar power connection to hybrid batte
    4. Inverter to supply 110V
    5. Battery Chemistry
      1. Ability to function at extreme temperatures
  6. Water supply
    1. Cooking
    2. Shower
    3. Toilet
  7. Frame
    1. Light fixtures
    2. Food storage
    3. Clothes storage
  8. Roof or truck bed
    1. Solar panels
    2. Ventilation fans or moonroof
  9. Appliances
    1. Lighting
    2. Air compressor to clean and dry chain.
  10. Cooling
    1. Electric Refrigeration
    2. Battery and Generator
    3. A/C system operation with engine off
  11. Vehicle
    1. Maintenance in remote locations
    2. Fuel availability (B20 diesel)
    3. Carbon Monoxide detection
    4. Table space
    5. Security System
      1. High energy drain;
 
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BikeMike

Active Member

Toyota's RAV4 Prime will also have a lower maintenance cost than conventional crossovers. To begin with, Toyota includes the cost of maintenance and roadside assistance for two years. That sets Toyota apart from automakers like Tesla, Mitsubishi, Nissan, and GM. Although the RAV4 Prime does have a gasoline engine to supplement its electric motors, the engine does not use a costly timing belt that needs changing. Like the Prius, it was designed to have low operating costs. Torque News estimates that the total cost of maintenance for the first four years of ownership of the RAV4 Prime will be lower than every current competitor.

With an expected total range of well over 500 miles, the RAV4 Prime will be one of the longest-range green vehicles for sale in America. And that range will be easily expandable to nearly 1000 miles with a quick five-minute stop at any fuel station in America. When operated as a gasoline hybrid, the Toyota RAV4 Prime is about 35% more fuel-efficient than the leading conventionally-powered crossover its size. The RAV4 Prime is a green vehicle in every possible scenario.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Build a special purpose mobile kitchen/bathroom trailer containing household appliances with an electrical and water heater system. The electrical system might have its own iron phosphate li-ion battery pack. Perhaps, 2kWh? Why not add a 500W stereo receiver with decent speakers?



Recharge the trailer battery from car as necessary. Keep appliances isolated from car electrical system. Allow for more than 1500W. Perhaps, 3000W ?

All you need is a generator (RAV4), battery and high quality inverter (e.g., Pure Sine Wave). The RAV4 contains the three components, but within a 1500W limit.

Perhaps, a 4x4x4 cube in an aerodynamic teardrop shape?

Good shock system and wheels to dampen vibrations.

You can pack an awful lot of sophisticated technology into a four foot cube. West Marine probably carries everything you need or desire.




A small sailboat galley

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BikeMike

Active Member

Total Cost of Ownership Estimation -
  1. Which trim package?
  2. Federal and state PHEV tax deductions
  3. Insurance
  4. First two years maintence included
  5. Trailer and roofrack costs
  6. High wear electrical component costs
    1. Generator (electric motor)
    2. Battery
    3. Inverter

Questions :
  1. What is optimal ownership strategy?
    1. Before battery pack exhauts useful life?
    2. Before ten year battery warranty expires?
    3. With significant technological improvements?
      1. LI-ion chemistry will eventually become obsolete.
  2. When is optimal purchase?
    1. How many months to shake out flaws?
    2. After competitive 2021 vehicles are well understood.
    3. After owner battery usage patterns becomes available.
      1. How much battery capacity is available after arriving at campsite?
      2. What are reasonable temperature ranges for 110V overnight use to power an electric blanket?
  3. When new model exceeds current EV range of 42 miles by a significant amount?
  4. When fast charging, 30 minute time frame, model becomes available?
 
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BikeMike

Active Member

This car inverter solves the general problem of access to 110V, 1500W power. However, the physical size of the car might be too small for bike camping. Anything that reduces aerodynamics is bad for the EV system. You probably want to completely rely on the gas engine to reach your campsite. You want to arrive at the camp site with a full battery. Any suboptimal aerodynamics or temperature range will adversely affect battery capacity. The level of comfort you require while driving will also affect battery charge level. The battery powers climate control and other power-hungry devices.

AWD means powering the rear motor with electricity. How much battery capacity is consumed by AWD needs to be understood.

I need to re-read the owner's manual to enhance my understanding.

Specific limitations reduce battery charge level and the circumstances under which inverter use is practical and/or possible. Uncertainty level can be high, in certain circumstances. In any event, the battery is still heavily dependent upon the gas engine or a charging station for camping.

  • A folding bike is ideal for this car.
  • Proper tire pressure and efficient tires are just important for EV efficiency as for bikes. Your battery charge level will degrade. In other words, poor tires waste energy.
  • The rear seat cushions might be removed, but seat frame cannot. See page 91, or DC-to-DC air filter image below.
  • A water tank may not be installed inside the car. See page 91.
  • The traction battery heats and cools car, drawing power.
    • Get the heated seats package
    • Get the moonroof package
    • Minimize AC and heater usage
    • Get the 6.6kW, rather than 3.3 charger to reduce charging time by half.
      • Available with premium trim model as additional package
  • Weight needs to be distributed evenly for handling and braking
  • Only use roofrack when necessary because it impacts battery range.
  • Trailer is 1700 pound maximum, but subject to other constraints, like gross weight
  • A trailer is probably a bad idea due to air resistance
  • Moonroof and DC-to-DC air filter might allow for cross ventilation.
  • The car should have a garage, as battery is intended to be recharged after every use.
  • A bicycle rack is undesirable due to wind resistance.
  • The car should be left parked in shade.
  • Extreme temperatures are to be avoided.
    • Don't know exact moderate temperature range, but inverter is unavailable outside of range.
    • Car must be warmed or cooled to permit inverter use.
    • The fan under the rear seat will be activated when temperatures are high.
    • Draws over 600V at peak usage.
    • I suspect an electric blanket will not work when outside temperatures drop below a certain temperature.
      • See Battery Heater for more details.
  • The car is intended to be driven in EV mode in the city as much as possible.
    • The car will automatically choose most efficient mode.
    • HIghway driving is more efficient with EV mode off, as EV mode adds unnecessary load.
Page 83

driving range (P.172) is being dis- played on the multi-information dis- play, EV driving (driving using only the electric motor) may be canceled and both gasoline engine and elec- tric motor are used depending on the situation (EV driving will be returned to automatically after EV driving becomes possible again).

EV driving may be canceled auto- matically in the following circum-

stances*1:

●When vehicle speed is more than approximately 84 mph (135 km/h).

●When power is needed temporar- ily, for example when the acceler- ator pedal is depressed firmly or

when accelerating suddenly.*2

●When the temperature of the hybrid system is high.
The vehicle has been left in the sun, driven on a hill, driven at high speeds, etc.

●When the temperature of the hybrid system is low.

●When the heater is switched on when the outside temperature is below about 14°F (-10°C).

●When the windshield defogger switch is pressed. (P.398)

●When the system determines that the gasoline engine needs to be started.

*1:The gasoline engine may also operate in circumstances other than those listed above, depend- ing on conditions.

*2:When driving in AUTO EV/HV mode. Even in EV mode, the gas- oline engine may start, depend- ing on the condition of the hybrid battery (traction battery).

■ If “Engine Started to Protect System EV driving unavailable” is displayed on the multi-infor- mation display

EV driving may be canceled in order



to protect the hybrid system, etc.

In this case, perform driving with the gasoline engine until EV driving will be returned to automatically.

■ Conditions in which the gaso- line engine may not stop

The gasoline engine starts and stops automatically. However, it may not stop automatically in the

following conditions*:

●During gasoline engine warm-up

●During hybrid battery (traction bat- tery) charging

●When the temperature of the hybrid battery (traction battery) is high or low

●When the windshield defogger switch is pressed. (P.398)

*: Depending on the circumstances, the gasoline engine may also not stop automatically in situations other than those above.

■ Sounds and vibrations specific to a hybrid vehicle

There may be no engine sound or vibration even though the vehicle is able to move with the “READY” indi- cator is illuminated. For safety, apply the parking brake and make sure to shift the shift lever to P when parked.

The following sounds or vibrations may occur when the hybrid system is operating and are not a malfunc- tion.

●Motor sounds may be heard from the engine compartment.

●Sounds may be heard from the hybrid battery (traction battery) when the hybrid system starts or stops.

●Relay operating sounds such as a snap or soft clank will be emitted from the hybrid battery (traction battery), behind the rear seats, when the hybrid system is started or stopped.

power


Page 84


■ If the vehicle is not used for a long time

●The 12-volt battery may dis- charge. In this event, charge the 12-volt battery. (P.539)
In order to prevent the hybrid bat- tery (traction battery) from becom- ing extremely low in charge, charge the hybrid battery (traction battery) from external power source or start the hybrid system at least once every 2 or 3 months, and turn the power switch off after the gasoline engine has stopped automatically. (If the gasoline engine does not start up even after approximately 10 seconds have passed since the “READY” indicator came on, the power
Page 94.






HV mode while on the free- way and change to EV mode or AUTO EV/HV mode after leaving the freeway. (P.78)

Air conditioning

 Turn the “A/C” switch off when it is not needed. Doing so can help reduce excessive electricity and fuel consump- tion.

In summer: When the ambient tem- perature is high, use the recircu- lated air mode. Doing so will help to reduce the burden on the air condi- tioning system and reduce electric- ity and fuel consumption as well.

In winter: Avoid excessive and unnecessary use of the heater. Usage of the heated steering wheel (if equipped) (P.407) and seat heaters (P.408) are effective.

Using the Remote Air Condi- tioning System (P.405) while the AC charging cable is connected to the vehicle can reduce electricity consump- tion immediately after starting off by operating air condition- ing mainly using electricity from an external power source.

When setting the charging schedule, setting the charging mode to “Departure” and “Cli- mate Prep” to on can reduce electricity consumption imme- diately after starting off by operating air conditioning



Make sure to check the tire infla- tion pressure frequently. If there is improper tire inflation pres- sure in the tires, the EV driving range will become shorter, and fuel consumption when in HV mode will increase.

Also, as snow tires can cause large amounts of friction, their use on dry roads can lead to increased fuel and electricity consumption.

Luggage

Carrying heavy luggage will lead to poor fuel economy. Avoid car- rying unnecessary luggage. Installing a large roof rack will also cause poor fuel economy.

Since the gasoline engine starts up and cuts out automatically, warming up is not necessary.





Checking tire inflation pressure





Warming up before driv- ing
HV mode while on the free- way and change to EV mode or AUTO EV/HV mode after leaving the freeway. (P.78)

Air conditioning

 Turn the “A/C” switch off when it is not needed. Doing so can help reduce excessive electricity and fuel consump- tion.

In summer: When the ambient tem- perature is high, use the recircu- lated air mode. Doing so will help to reduce the burden on the air condi- tioning system and reduce electric- ity and fuel consumption as well.

In winter: Avoid excessive and unnecessary use of the heater. Usage of the heated steering wheel (if equipped) (P.407) and seat heaters (P.408) are effective.

Using the Remote Air Condi- tioning System (P.405) while the AC charging cable is connected to the vehicle can reduce electricity consump- tion immediately after starting off by operating air condition- ing mainly using electricity from an external power source.

When setting the charging schedule, setting the charging mode to “Departure” and “Cli- mate Prep” to on can reduce electricity consumption imme- diately after starting off by operating air conditioning



Make sure to check the tire infla- tion pressure frequently. If there is improper tire inflation pres- sure in the tires, the EV driving range will become shorter, and fuel consumption when in HV mode will increase.

Also, as snow tires can cause large amounts of friction, their use on dry roads can lead to increased fuel and electricity consumption.

Luggage

Carrying heavy luggage will lead to poor fuel economy. Avoid car- rying unnecessary luggage. Installing a large roof rack will also cause poor fuel economy.

Since the gasoline engine starts up and cuts out automatically, warming up is not necessary.





Checking tire inflation pressure





Warming up before driv- ing

Page 96.






Use the air conditioning system appropriately, and also utilize the heated steer- ing wheel (if equipped) and seat heaters

In EV mode, the vehicle is cooled and heated by electrical energy. (Except in extremely cold temperatures of approxi- mately 14°F (-10°C) or less.)

Preventing excessive cooling or heating of the vehicle will reduce power consumption and improve electrical efficiency.

Page 97.






When eco air conditioning mode is used, the air conditioning con- trol is switched automatically to a lower setting. (P.397)

The heated steering wheel (if equipped) and seat heaters are efficient heating device that directly warm the body using less electric power.

When used together with the air conditioning system, a low tem- perature setting can be used to improve electrical and fuel effi- ciency.

■ Check the tire pressure

If the tire pressure is lower than the specified value, it will worsen the electrical and fuel efficiency.

A pressure level 7 psi (50 kPa, 0.5

kgf/cm2 or bar) lower than the spec- ified value will cause a worsening of several percentage points.

■ When driving on highways, use the EV/HV mode selec- tion switch to drive in HV mode

The power consumption will increase significantly if the vehi- cle is driven in EV mode on highways.

■ Do not load unnecessary objects in the vehicle

Driving with objects weighing 220 lb. (100 kg) in the vehicle will worsen the electrical and fuel efficiency by approximately 3%.



Air resistance also greatly affects electrical and fuel effi- ciency. Remove any exterior accessories such as a roof lug- gage carrier when they are not being used.

The running resistance of snow tires is high and they will worsen electrical and fuel efficiency. Replace them with standard tires as soon as they are no lon- ger needed.

■ Know your vehicle’s electri- cal and fuel efficiency

If you know your vehicle’s daily electrical and fuel efficiency, you will understand the benefits of Eco drive.

Use the Power Consump- tion/Fuel Economy, ECO Accel- erator Guidance/“Eco Score” and other data displayed on the multi-information display.
Airbags may prevent seat removal.

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Attachments

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BikeMike

Active Member

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Components Powered by the HV Battery Pack

  • Front Electric Motor
  • Rear Electric Motor
  • Power Cables
  • A/C Compressor
  • Electric Generator
  • Inverter/Converter
  • DC-DC Converter for 12 V Auxiliary Battery






Hybrid Component Locations & Descriptions

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Component





12 V Auxiliary Battery 


Avoid ignition in ACC position.

When the power switch is on ACC or on IG, the auxiliary battery supplies power to the electrical equipment and ECUs.





Hybrid Vehicle (HV) Battery Pack





•Supplies electrical power to the
  1. electric generator (MG1),
  2. front electric motor (MG2) and
  3. rear electric motor (MGR) and the
  4. A/C compressor in accordance with the driving conditions of the vehicle.

•Charged by the
  1. electric generator (MG1) and
  2. electric motor (MG2) in accordance with the State Of Charge (SOC) of the HV battery and the driving conditions of the vehicle.

•Has a nominal (approximate) voltage of DC 244.8 V (actual voltage will vary depending on various conditions such as temperature, charge or discharge).





Power Cables





Connects the HV battery to the
  1. Inverter/Converter,
  2. the Inverter/Converter to electric generator (MG1),
  3. front electric motor (MG2) and rear electric motor (MGR), and the
  4. Inverter/Converter to the A/C Compressor.





Inverter/ Converter 





DC-DC Converter  for 12 V Auxiliary Battery





Reduces the HV battery voltage from DC 244.8 V to approximately DC 14 V in order to supply electricity to
  1. body electrical components, as well as
  2. to recharge the auxiliary battery.





Motor Generator ECU





Controls the boost converter and inverter in accordance with signals received from the
  1. hybrid vehicle control ECU,
  2. operating electric generator (MG1),
  3. front electric motor (MG2) or
  4. rear electric motor (MGR) as either a generator or motor.





Boost Converter





Boosts the voltage of the HV battery from DC 244.8 V to a maximum of DC 650 V and vice versa (reduces from DC 650 V to DC 244.8 V).





Inverter





Converts high-voltage DC (HV battery) into AC
  1. (electric generator (MG1),
  2. front electric motor (MG2) and
  3. rear electric motor (MGR))
  4. and vice versa (converts AC into DC).





Gasoline Engine 





Is a high-expansion ratio Atkinson cycle engine which is compatible with the hybrid system and which generates drive force for driving and energy for electricity generation.





Front Electric Motor





•Driven by electrical power from the
  1. electric generator (MG1) and/or the
  2. HV battery, and
  3. generates motive force for the front wheels.

•Generates electricity to recharge the HV battery (regenerative braking) during braking or when the accelerator pedal is not depressed.





Rear Electric Motor





Driven by electrical power from the
  1. electric generator (MG1) and/or the
  2. HV battery, it
  3. generates motive force for the rear wheels.





Electric Generator





•Driven by the engine and generates high-voltage electricity in order to operate the
  1. front electric motor (MG2) and
  2. rear electric motor (MGR) and/or to
  3. charge the HV battery. Also, the
  4. electric generator (MG1) functions as a starter to start the engine.

•Operated to allow the gear ratio of the power split planetary gear unit to optimally suit the driving conditions of the vehicle.





A/C Compressor (with inverter)





  1. Driven at a speed calculated by the air conditioning amplifier assembly,
  2. receives drive requests from the hybrid vehicle control ECU and
  3. takes in, compresses and discharges refrigerant.





Fuel Tank and Fuel Line





The fuel tank provides gasoline via a fuel line to the engine. The fuel line is routed along the left side under the floor pan.





*Numbers in the component column apply to the illustrations on the following page. 6
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
We have entered microcamper territory to maximize battery life or minimize gas engine electricity generation. I doubt anyone wants to idle their car for 3.5 hours to charge their eBike.

If space is important, the Toyota Sienna minivan is an option. I would avoid the one kWh, metal chemistry battery. You will certainly run the gas engine to recharge your bike. The battery chemistry is outdated. Even li-ion battery chemistry is dated.

You probably want to build cabinets over the wheel wells to make efficient use of interior space. That means the rear seats will be unavailable. You might be able to fit one bike in the cabin area. My 29" mountain bike barely fit into my Subaru Forrester. My Specialized Diverge gravel bike fit snugly. You might be able to accomodate some sort of sliding mechanism to conveniently store and access one or two bikes.

For the time being, i am focused on how many kWh of the 18kWh battery capacity might be available upon arrival at a campsite. Will the battery capacity be closer to 10% or 90%? I am not seeking an exact figure. I am more interested in degree, on a scale from -3 to +3, with 0 representing half full.

I need to re-read the owner's manual about highway driving and its effect upon battery charging and discharging. I remember:
  1. The EV circuitry should be turned off because it drains power.
  2. Running the electric motors is pointless because little braking is done. No significant recharge from electric motors.
  3. I don't how long it takes to fully charge the HV while driving.
  4. Plugging in a refrigerator to 110VAC is probably a bad idea, even when driving.
  5. Climate control will draw HV battery power.
  6. The driving conditions will influence HV battery charge or discharge.
The two electric motors combined are 175kW. The battery is 18kWh, which is about ten percent of the motor power for one hour. When the gas engine requires extra power, the electric motors will kick in. The additional electric power comes from the HV battery. I believe this behavior is what is meant by the Ford or Toyota "parallel" design. Honda's serial design consumes battery power up to 45mph, then switches to gas power. Battery consumption is probably dependent upon terrain and driving habits.

My goal is conserve as much battery power for camping as possible.

A related question is the value of AWD. Handling and traction are vastly improved by AWD. The rear motor can either consume or generate power. How this works is unclear. I consider AWD a net positive.
 
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BikeMike

Active Member

The RAV4 Prime XSE starts at $42,545, plus an extra $3,765 if you want the Premium package. Keep in mind the Prime will be eligible for a $7,500 federal tax credit and any applicable state credits, which should lighten some of the load.
We may enough information to begin reasoning about the behavior of the RAV4 Prime system. The minimal information to reason about behavior is listed below. The estimated cost for the XSE trim model and Premium package is estimated over $46,000.
  1. Ambient temperature -
    1. climate control, electrical heating and cooling will consume HV battery energy
    2. Will buy heated seats to reduce need to use battery energy to heat interior air
  2. Effective range -
    1. combined gas and battery range is approximately
      1. 600 miles
    2. +2 Scenario, 80% battery charge
      1. ? Miles
  3. Charge time -
    1. 2.5 hours with 6.6kW charger
    2. Will buy premium package to upgrade from 3.3kW charger
  4. Highway mpg -
    1. 36
    2. Will not extend car cargo capacity by adding roof rack or pulling trailer to optimize mpg
    3. Drive mode - battery recharge, not combined HV/EV
  5. Highway Battery consumption -
    94 kW-hrs/100 miles
    1. Need to differentiate by driving modes
      1. Battery Charge
      2. HV/EV
  6. Battery Capacity -
    1. 18kWh
  7. Tank Size - 14.5 gallons
  8. Engine horsepower
    1. Total - 302
    2. 2.5L 176-hp
    3. 179-hp (front)
    4. 53-hp (rear) electric motor
I find a scale from -3 to +3 is a convenient for reasoning. The goal is to arrive with a battery charge of a +2 or +3 scenario.

  • -3 - 5% gas and battery
  • -2
  • -1
  • 0 - 50% gas and battery
  • +1 - 66% gas and battery
  • +2 - 80% gas and battery
  • +3 - 95% gas and battery
Gas refill time is insignificant. The main concern is arriving at a camp site with 80% full tank.

My understanding is the car cannot be occupied while being recharged. Waiting outside the car for 2.5 hours is unacceptable in extreme temperatures. Therefore, I probably want to recharge the battery whenever it reaches 80%, which will take about 30 minutes. Therefore, the effective highway range is highly dependent upon the MPG in battery charge driving mode.

The Mitsubishi Outlander has a 30 minute fast charge, but I believe the battery is 11 or 12kWh. 110 VAC power supply mode cannot be controlled, as the gas engine automatically starts when HV charge level is low.

For example, how much longer would the 1,200 mile, 18 hour trip from Denver to Portland, OR actually take? Would sleeping in the car make for fastest time? Or, would recharging at a hotel with a plugin station be faster?


IMG_0981.PNG
The same calculation for Outlander is closer to what I hoped for, given ten stops to recharge or every two hours. I am not sure how accurate the software simulation is. According to this estimate, i arrive with roughly the same amount of kWh of battery. I spend much less time waiting for the an Outlander to charge, due to fast charging. Also, i can always ensure a +2 or +3 full battery with fast charging.

In my area, Outlander PHEVs are discounted by about 15%.

IMG_0983.PNG
 
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BikeMike

Active Member



Fast charging, or reaching 80% charge level in 30 minutes, is key to a flexible and predictable solution for my purposes. I will wait until the first quarter of 2021 before making a decision.
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
Apparently, the drive mode that would allow me to arrive at a campsite with the desired battery level is called "Hold" mode. The major reservation i have about the RAV4 is the 2.5 hour charge time. I find battery powered products most useful when the charge-to-operation ratio is about 50:1.

The model i am interested in will probably total around $50K, after all costs are included. The RAV4 Prime is acceptable, i just wonder if fast charging and larger cargo area is available for the same price. Fast charging is actually my highest priority.


Inside, it’s a similar story. The RAV4 Prime borrows the bulk of its interior from the RAV4 Hybrid, with most of the differences appearing in the instrumentation. The Prime’s PHEV format enables a handful of new drive modes, including “Charge,” which replenishes some of the all-electric range, and “Hold,” which lets you save it for later.

However, like all plug-in hybrids, fuel consumption really depends on

  • how far you travel,
  • how frequently you plug in and
  • therefore how much you rely on electricity only.
... and therefore fast charging provides highest utility.


My procedure for the 1,200 mile, 18 hour trip from Denver to Portland is:

  1. Start with a fully charged battery
  2. Put drive mode into "Hold" at 80%.
  3. Recharge every two hours for 30 minutes (4:1 operation-to-charge ratio)
  4. Sleep in cargo area with heated blanket plugged into 110VAC outlet
    • The power supply mode must be HV battery only to avoid carbon monoxide poisoning
    • Arrive at stop with 14.5kWh of battery.
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
About heating a vehicle with battery power

The
RAV4 owner's manual strongly recommends heating seats and steering wheel, rather than heating the air with electric power. An electric blanket is the same concept for sleeping. Insulation is important. A air filled camping mattress might provide significant insulation.

Video recording the car with a FLIR camera will provide exact information to inform an efficient solution.

Perhaps, window curtains made from heating film might be an efficient and effective way to passively heat a car on a cold night?


I suspect some type of gel with thermodynamic properties might provide greater heat generation. I haven't researched the subject. Inducing a chemical reaction to produce heat might be more effective and efficient than resistance heating from an electric blanket. I'm speculating, because I don't actually know.


Technically, the modern day ondol is based on the same concept as the underfloor radiant heating invented by the American architect Frank Lloyd Wright, who was interested in Japanese architecture. Wright came with the idea while visiting a Japanese nobleman's house, where he found a tea room that was different from the rest of the house, using a Korean ondol as a heating system. He then took the same idea to create a heating system that fits American houses. Wright invented modern radiant floor heating, using hot water running through pipes instead of hot air through flues.[5]

A heating film, itself, is a variation of the modern ondol, but it doesn't require hot water and pipes as it is fully electric. There are also many variations of this underfloor heating system, as many underfloor heaters are based on

  • PTC ceramic elements: PTC ceramic materials are named for their positive thermal coefficient of resistance (i.e., resistance increases upon heating). While most ceramics have a negative coefficient, these materials (often barium titanate and lead titanate composites) have a highly nonlinear thermal response, so that above a composition-dependent threshold temperature their resistance increases rapidly. This behavior causes the material to act as its own thermostat, since current passes when it is cool, and does not when it is hot.

  • Thin filmsof this material are used in
    • automotive rear-window defrost heaters, and
    • honeycomb-shaped elements are used in more expensive hair dryers and
    • space heaters.
A layer of heating film might help the HV battery in certain temperatures, too.. Otherwise, the engine must be started to warm the battery.

 
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