High Powered eBike Camping: A Conceptual Approach to Estimate Electrical Power Needs for Camping

BikeMike

Active Member
An excerpt from:
  • Simplification Rule #11: Build a Home Environment from USB Devices to Meet 80% of Your Needs, Powered by a 72Ah Portable Power Bank

The context of this post is the 2021 Toyota Sienna, which is a mild hybrid minivan. This approach works the same from either inside or outside the minivan. This approach also applies to cars with several USB ports. You might need to refer to the original thread for background or context.

The Low Voltage (LV) bus concept, explained below, also applies to bikepacking and ultra endurance biking. Ultra endurance biking means riding as far and as fast as possible in one or more days. The prototypical route is the 400 mile Tour Divide leg from Grand Teton, WY to Steamboat Springs, CO on a Specialized Creo Evo. The Creo has a 120 mile range at 28mph.

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The LV bus concept applied to ultra endurance means recharging a battery, while the bike is actually in motion. Some power banks have 110VAC inverters, which facilitates eBike charging. Some power banks have a 72Ah capacity. Some power banks have solar power charging. Some solar panels are soft and can be rolled. The Creo frictionlessly decouples from the motor, so unpowered pedalling is possible.

The Creo charger draws a few amps and takes 3.5 hours to charge the main and Extender batteries, or about ten Ah. The LV bus approach achieves my target eBike range of 500 to 1,000 miles. The Tesla Cybertruck range is 500 miles!

The Sienna hybrid electrical system has an inverter and converter to transform 200VDC battery power to 110VAC, 12VDC or USB (5VDC). The Sienna also has two 110VAC outlets at 1500W.

I am extremely impressed by 12V and USB products. This means the minivan is essentially wired like a poor man's RV, because all seven passengers have their own USB port.

Amazon.com : USB Gadgets

12 Volt Appliances for Camping: Amazon.com

USB is 5VDC, so it is supported by the High Voltage (HV) battery via the 12V bus. Some products even switch between 110VAC and USB for different power needs; 110VAC cooking and subsequent 5VDC USB warming. You can achieve the same by freezing with 110VAC power and subsequently maintaining coldness with 5VDC USB.

Thinking in terms of a collection of USB devices that are switched between the hard-wired HV battery or a portable power bank is crucial. I refer to this concept as a Low Voltage (LV) bus. A universal power supply! Better yet is when USB devices are battery powered, e.g., Bluetooth speakers.

High capacity Power banks charged by solar power are also available. Charge the power bank during daylight hours, while using the minivan to power devices. Power devices at night from the power bank to avoid carbon monoxide poisoning, should the HV battery drain.

72Ah means a 10A device will run for seven hours! How much more power is needed for camping?
  • My goal is to limit consumption to a few amps per hour, if any.
    • Just multiply by 5V to estimate watts.
    • Focusing on amps, to isolate power hungry devices.
    • 5V is approximately battery voltage.
  • Establishing an energy budget is essential to enjoyable experiences.
  • Solar power might allow me to balance my energy budget, under certain circumstances.
The LV bus supplies enough power to satisfy the following daily camping needs:
  1. Heat
    1. USB Sleeping bag or shawl.
  2. Light
    1. My USB bike light is probably more than adequate. I just need a lampshade.
  3. Ventilation
    1. Desktop fans drawing fresh air into the minivan through car ducts and exhausting air through moonroof.
  4. Electronics
    1. Laptops, cellphones, etc...
  5. Food Warming and Cooling
  6. Sound
    1. Bluetooth music players and speakers
The Low Voltage (LV) bus strengthens the case for mild hybrids, rather than PHEVs, for my specific purposes. In fact, i have eliminated PHEVs from consideration. The demand for HV battery capacity has been substantially reduced. In fact, some power banks provide 110VAC output. That means eBike batteries can be recharged from a power bank. I will look for the highest output wattage, which seems to be around 300W.

The Low Voltage Bus approach brings relief, because the general solution is simplified to the point that i can track the major details and perform calculations in my head. I can temporarily ignore the High Voltage (110VAC) bus by separating it from LV bus concerns.
  1. I do not expect more than eight devices to run simultaneously.
  2. I do not expect average device voltage above 5V.
  3. Therefore, my main concerns when buying USB devices are:
    1. amperage
    2. battery capacity
    3. recharge rate
  4. I want to keep LV bus consumption below 10 to 12 amps, or 50 to 60 watts per hour.
    1. Recharging schedules can now be estimated.
  5. Eventually, all LV and HV details must be combined into a spreadsheet. i am far away from the optimization stage. I am at a preliminary approximation stage about general concepts of form and function.

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BikeMike

Active Member
Beautiful sunrise over Denver.

A contrast between past oil and electric future.




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Hectors Ghost

Active Member
That's why I participate on EBR... just in case you forgot, didn't know, or as I suspect simply don't care, that stands for Electric Bike Review. Here's a Google search (available to any internet user... as with almost all Google searches) since that's all you seem to understand having no 1st hand knowledge.

Bike, bicycle: https://prnt.sc/u30u7s.
Ebike: https://prnt.sc/u30v1g.

Did you happen to notice that neither example bothers to talk about the power source like a petulant child that wasn't breastfed, kicking, and screaming in a shopping cart for mom's attention? I, like most of the readers here, ride electric bikes of some kind DIY or production. Do you... own an ebike BM? Have you ever even ridden an ebike BM? The charging point is the least important common factor to the whole experience. "We"... ebike owners, and wannabe owners, come here to discuss them... again, electric bikes since you seem to have missed the point over, and over, and over...... BM.

As far as me riding today, I have been out already, grocery shopping, taking a pet to the vet, and helping at a local food bank. When I get cleaned up and play with the furry and feathered roommates some I will go out again... that's "riding"... an "ebike"... catching on yet BM? No, I doubt it. In fact, like a petulant child seeking attention, I assume we (ebike enthusiasts: https://prnt.sc/u312kj) will all see another 1/2 dozen posts on vehicles with inverters. (https://www.autoguide.com/top-10-best-power-inverters-for-your-car) Feel free to plagiarize (do you own Google search for that one) the crap out of that link too while you are sitting in your shopping cart yelling Mom. Mom!, Momma!, MOM!!!!!!!... BM.

I'd say Ride Safe but I don't think that's a problem for you BM.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
That's why I participate on EBR... just in case you forgot, didn't know, or as I suspect simply don't care, that stands for Electric Bike Review. Here's a Google search (available to any internet user... as with almost all Google searches) since that's all you seem to understand having no 1st hand knowledge.

Bike, bicycle: https://prnt.sc/u30u7s.
Ebike: https://prnt.sc/u30v1g.

Did you happen to notice that neither example bothers to talk about the power source like a petulant child that wasn't breastfed, kicking, and screaming in a shopping cart for mom's attention? I, like most of the readers here, ride electric bikes of some kind DIY or production. Do you... own an ebike BM? Have you ever even ridden an ebike BM? The charging point is the least important common factor to the whole experience. "We"... ebike owners, and wannabe owners, come here to discuss them... again, electric bikes since you seem to have missed the point over, and over, and over...... BM.

As far as me riding today, I have been out already, grocery shopping, taking a pet to the vet, and helping at a local food bank. When I get cleaned up and play with the furry and feathered roommates some I will go out again... that's "riding"... an "ebike"... catching on yet BM? No, I doubt it. In fact, like a petulant child seeking attention, I assume we (ebike enthusiasts: https://prnt.sc/u312kj) will all see another 1/2 dozen posts on vehicles with inverters. (https://www.autoguide.com/top-10-best-power-inverters-for-your-car) Feel free to plagiarize (do you own Google search for that one) the crap out of that link too while you are sitting in your shopping cart yelling Mom. Mom!, Momma!, MOM!!!!!!!... BM.

I'd say Ride Safe but I don't think that's a problem for you BM.

If you feel so strongly, why not report it to the moderator as inappropriate content? I think a rational person would take that action.

Try #1 google search results. But you need to know how to use google appropriately. I actually have a degree in computer science.

Please leave this thread. You have a pattern of behaving this way. I wish to have nothing to do with you. You are harassing me. Do not ever contact me again or respond to my threads.

Go take your DIY bike for a ride, or are you afraid the brakes are inadequate for the way you overload the bike? Your time is much better spent riding, than wasting your time with me.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
"The Creo has a 120 mile range at 28mph."

"I actually have a degree in computer science."

Obviously you don't have one in electrical engineering...

There is an ignore feature here btw that even I have figured out. I don't believe you can keep anyone on here from posting on your over the top threads that actually try and help you to see reality. On to ignore you go!
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Defining the best power bank or combination to recharge both Specialized Creo batteries while car camping or riding from Denver, CO to Grand Teton, WY. Also, to support a Low Voltage (LV) bus for USB devices.

  1. AC outlet for ebike charger
  2. Types of USB:
    1. C
    2. TBD, possiby A
    3. Seems like AC and USB-C is an uncommon combination
    4. AC is more versatile than USB-C
  3. Battery capacity- at least 50Ah
  4. At least 90W output to charge a demanding laptop
  5. The number of USB ports needed for camping:
    1. Heat - one USB sleeping bag or shawl
    2. Light - one
    3. Ventilation- 2 USB desktop fans in car
    4. Electronics - laptop, cellphone, etc...
  6. Power bank charge time less than 8 hours in sunlight
  7. Power input: AC, solar, 12VDC
    1. Most car AC outlets are in the 100 to 400W range
  8. Not designed for airline regulations
  9. Combined weight under five pounds
Candidates:

  1. MaxOak Laptop Power Bank -
    1. no AC outlet
    2. Good for laptop
  2. HALO Bolt 58830
    1. Can jumpstart a car
    2. No USB-C: AC only.
      1. OK when USC-C has battery, e,g., bike light.
    3. Use AC electric blanket for heat
    4. Might be used to charge other USB-C power banks?
    5. 60W max, not fast for charging 90W laptops
    6. Comes with Car Charger so you can keep your Bolt powered while you’re in your car.
    7. Car needs at least two USB-C ports.
  3. Krisdonia 50000mAh Laptop Power Bank
    1. No AC
    2. 6 to 8 hour charge time.
  4. Voltaic Systems V88 Portable Laptop Power Bank
    1. No AC
    2. Solar-optimized Power Bank
    3. Low capacity
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
If you have an older Toyota hybrid, you may able to upgrade your inverter to 1500W.


This Inverter delivers a maximum output of 1500W using the electrified vehicle's high-capacity battery. It enables electrical appliances that consume a large amount of power, such as microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners, and hairdryers to be used inside the vehicle, and can also be used as an emergency power source during disasters.
(Note: May not operate depending on the electrical appliances.)

If the 2021 Sienna is the wrong choice, you may be able to get four USB ports on other hybrids, e.g., Corolla, by adding a connectivity package.
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
"A Conceptual Approach to..." means no real experience or knowledge gained from anything but (in this case) an internet search. Are you sure you don't want a car with an inverter so you can charge your sleep apnea machine?