How to Replace an Electric Bike Battery if the Model is Discontinued or the Company is Out of Business

bob armani

Well-Known Member
Got a great deal. Only charged me $500 for replacing 100 cells, 18650, 3500mah each, Samsung.
After 20 miles, dropped to 80%
Only 20% after 20 miles, is fantastic. I do not get anything close to that on a 36V 11.6ah with original cells riding flats with not much wind with a 140lb rider at that. I'll usually top out at 30 miles on a full charge while riding in a high PAS level. Great update for everyone to see how an upgrade is worth every dollar put back into your E-bike riding experience. Sounds like you now have 1-1/2 batteries on your bike.
 
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RJM1970

Member
'ShipBikes.com'- Was not familiar with this company. Will give it a try and see what their shipping charges are like. Sounds like it will save the hassles of these non-consistent answers I have been receiving from different UPS locations.
 

RJM1970

Member
John is a one man business, 740 404 9650. Give em a call. He has most experience with Bionix batteries from Canada, and has done batteries on work tools for years. Very helpful and genuine guy?
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
report back on your success. every UPS store is different, and your local store may not be up to speed on what is 'legit.' For ebike shipping, the best by far, who knows the rules, is ShipBikes.com. No hazmat cert needed. P.S. The rules keep evolving, and the education of the shipping industry is playing catch up. Hopefully in the not too distant future this wont be the issue it has been. The past 2 years, have seen a lot of turmoil, but less so in just the past 6 months.
FYI- Reached out to Shipbikes.com and received the following response: (Another wall hit with this issue)!

'Unless the lithium battery is enclosed in the bicycle and attached, we are unable to ship it. Batteries the size and output needed by an ebike are Class-9 hazardous materials and have to packed and shipped by HAZMAT-certified handlers, which we are not'.

Good luck in your search.

Thanks,
-Shipbikes Team
+1 800-323-4083

SHIPBIKES.COM
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
FYI- Reached out to Shipbikes.com and received the following response: (Another wall hit with this issue)!

'Unless the lithium battery is enclosed in the bicycle and attached, we are unable to ship it. Batteries the size and output needed by an ebike are Class-9 hazardous materials and have to packed and shipped by HAZMAT-certified handlers, which we are not'.

Good luck in your search.

Thanks,
-Shipbikes Team
+1 800-323-4083
SHIPBIKES.COM

"We learned that if we ask a customer to send back a failed battery we can be liable for any problems. Not only can the shipper be in deep trouble, but the business that had them ship is also liable.

Lots of red flags. Some of the terms that are used in violations are "cause to ship," and "acting as an agent to ship." Cause to ship would apply when a client says they want to return a battery because there is something wrong. The seller's warranty allows the client to return the battery for replacement (cause to ship). The buyer ships the battery without the proper labels, correct packaging, and no Hazmat training. The battery is noticed by a driver/carrier, or it causes a problem by catching fire and is reported to authorities. The shipper (one returning the battery upon the authorization of the seller) can be fined $75,000 and up. The one who "caused to ship" can be fined $75,000 (and up, civil fines are a starting point) and if it is decided that it was a "willful act" on the part of the one who caused to ship then such person can be prosecuted criminally. If the battery cause as fire, loss of property, loss of life all that would be taken into account to file criminal charges. In the North American legal justice system and in US Occupational Safety and Health regulations, willful violation (also called 'willful non-compliance') is an "act done voluntarily with either an intentional disregard of or plain indifference to," the requirements of Acts, regulations, statutes or relevant workplace.



The only way a buyer can return a battery is if they use a Hazmat/Dangerous goods shipper.



Recently, Brallie Battery of Florida was fined $1,1 million for violations of shipping Li batteries.

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=22374

Now...their warranty page says in bold print: Return shipping is the customer’s responsibility. Twice they put this in their warranty page in bold type.

Drop shipping of batteries is not much better. A drop shipper is "acting as an agent to ship." If anything went wrong it could be interpreted as a willful act on the part of the one who engaged someone to act as an agent to subvert the requirements in place for shipping a known class 9 hazardous material.

I left a lot of other material out of this email as there is no further reason to point out the obvious fact that to be free of any liability, civil or criminal, is to go through the training, write a training plan for employees, pay for all the tests, and have a warranty in place that protects the sender and the receiver.

As a note:
Amazon does not allow anyone to return a lithium battery, for any reason."
 

RJM1970

Member
John is a one man business, 740 404 9650. Give em a call. He has most experience with Bionix batteries from Canada, and has done batteries on work tools for years. Very helpful and genuine guy?
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
John is a one man business, 740 404 9650. Give em a call. He has most experience with Bionix batteries from Canada, and has done batteries on work tools for years. Very helpful and genuine guy?
With all of the liabilities listed above, it looks like it is not worth the risk to even begin this process for a $500.00 battery. It now looks like the best and most prudent decision would be to simply order a new battery from a legit source and be done with it. Too many conditions and legalities involved to take such intensified risks IMO.

I can appreciate you pointing out that John has extensive experience in this space, however, I want to sleep better at night knowing I will not be liable in anyway if things go south during this process. :rolleyes:
 
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bob armani

Well-Known Member
"We learned that if we ask a customer to send back a failed battery we can be liable for any problems. Not only can the shipper be in deep trouble, but the business that had them ship is also liable.

Lots of red flags. Some of the terms that are used in violations are "cause to ship," and "acting as an agent to ship." Cause to ship would apply when a client says they want to return a battery because there is something wrong. The seller's warranty allows the client to return the battery for replacement (cause to ship). The buyer ships the battery without the proper labels, correct packaging, and no Hazmat training. The battery is noticed by a driver/carrier, or it causes a problem by catching fire and is reported to authorities. The shipper (one returning the battery upon the authorization of the seller) can be fined $75,000 and up. The one who "caused to ship" can be fined $75,000 (and up, civil fines are a starting point) and if it is decided that it was a "willful act" on the part of the one who caused to ship then such person can be prosecuted criminally. If the battery cause as fire, loss of property, loss of life all that would be taken into account to file criminal charges. In the North American legal justice system and in US Occupational Safety and Health regulations, willful violation (also called 'willful non-compliance') is an "act done voluntarily with either an intentional disregard of or plain indifference to," the requirements of Acts, regulations, statutes or relevant workplace.



The only way a buyer can return a battery is if they use a Hazmat/Dangerous goods shipper.



Recently, Brallie Battery of Florida was fined $1,1 million for violations of shipping Li batteries.

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=22374

Now...their warranty page says in bold print: Return shipping is the customer’s responsibility. Twice they put this in their warranty page in bold type.

Drop shipping of batteries is not much better. A drop shipper is "acting as an agent to ship." If anything went wrong it could be interpreted as a willful act on the part of the one who engaged someone to act as an agent to subvert the requirements in place for shipping a known class 9 hazardous material.

I left a lot of other material out of this email as there is no further reason to point out the obvious fact that to be free of any liability, civil or criminal, is to go through the training, write a training plan for employees, pay for all the tests, and have a warranty in place that protects the sender and the receiver.

As a note:
Amazon does not allow anyone to return a lithium battery, for any reason."

This is a huge wake up call with the info you have posted. I am now having second thoughts to proceed. Looks like the risks are much too high for me to commit to this on any level. Thanks for that!
 
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bob armani

Well-Known Member
faa - again has to be ground shipping.
Just had a new bike delivered today for wife from bicyclebluebook. com, ground- with battery - from FedEx - no issues.
Congrats on the new bike delivery. I think the catch here is that the battery has to be installed on the bike to release some of the liability. Batteries shipped alone raises other concerns with everyone I have contacted in the biz. Crazy R & Rs.
 

RJM1970

Member
Sounds strange - like the laws are written to PUSH new bike purchase instead of keeping the bike you own running.

I think as ebike populations grow, more and more local businesses will do rebuilds. This will take the whole shipping issue off the table.

I was impressed with the weight of my new Izip Vibe+ battery - not heavy at all.

The advances in battery cell technology have made great strides in just a few years.
 

Mike's E-Bikes

Well-Known Member
"We learned that if we ask a customer to send back a failed battery we can be liable for any problems. Not only can the shipper be in deep trouble, but the business that had them ship is also liable.

Lots of red flags. Some of the terms that are used in violations are "cause to ship," and "acting as an agent to ship." Cause to ship would apply when a client says they want to return a battery because there is something wrong. The seller's warranty allows the client to return the battery for replacement (cause to ship). The buyer ships the battery without the proper labels, correct packaging, and no Hazmat training. The battery is noticed by a driver/carrier, or it causes a problem by catching fire and is reported to authorities. The shipper (one returning the battery upon the authorization of the seller) can be fined $75,000 and up. The one who "caused to ship" can be fined $75,000 (and up, civil fines are a starting point) and if it is decided that it was a "willful act" on the part of the one who caused to ship then such person can be prosecuted criminally. If the battery cause as fire, loss of property, loss of life all that would be taken into account to file criminal charges. In the North American legal justice system and in US Occupational Safety and Health regulations, willful violation (also called 'willful non-compliance') is an "act done voluntarily with either an intentional disregard of or plain indifference to," the requirements of Acts, regulations, statutes or relevant workplace.



The only way a buyer can return a battery is if they use a Hazmat/Dangerous goods shipper.



Recently, Brallie Battery of Florida was fined $1,1 million for violations of shipping Li batteries.

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=22374

Now...their warranty page says in bold print: Return shipping is the customer’s responsibility. Twice they put this in their warranty page in bold type.

Drop shipping of batteries is not much better. A drop shipper is "acting as an agent to ship." If anything went wrong it could be interpreted as a willful act on the part of the one who engaged someone to act as an agent to subvert the requirements in place for shipping a known class 9 hazardous material.

I left a lot of other material out of this email as there is no further reason to point out the obvious fact that to be free of any liability, civil or criminal, is to go through the training, write a training plan for employees, pay for all the tests, and have a warranty in place that protects the sender and the receiver.

As a note:
Amazon does not allow anyone to return a lithium battery, for any reason."
Local ebike shops can and are getting hazmat certified. Battery issues happen, and OEM's want them to be returned, when it's warranty related. I got my shop certification recently.

This is another valid reason on your checklist of where to buy your ebike from. Since you can go back to that shop, and they won't likely reject taking your battery back if it needs repair or upgrade in the future.