How Well Does YOUR E6000 Auto Shifting Perform On Hills?

So now that I have my Raleigh Misceo iE re-motored and up-and-running, I'm noticing the same unsatisfactory auto shifting behavior that I observed on the original motor, which had a faulty torque sensor.

For background, this bike is running the Shimano Alfine 8-speed hub, and uses Di2 electronic shifting via push buttons. The Shimano Steps E6000 drive system allows for on-the-fly switching between Auto or Manual shifting.

On flat terrain or gentle inclines, the auto shifting seems to perform well enough.

It quickly falls apart on hills, though. I pedal at a normal cadence, probably 60 to 70 RPM. It seems like when I hit an incline, the bike ignores all torque and speed inputs, and only looks at my cadence. As I spin up, it shifts early to a high gear, so high it even bogs down the motor. Only as the speed decays and my pedaling torque is extreme does is attempt a downshift, which is foolhardy due to the high load the chain is carrying.

If I back off and maintain a slow cadence, it performs nearly as poorly.

I try to override the Auto system by manually downshifting as I enter the hill, but in no time at all the Auto system overrides my gear selection and returns me to a higher gear.

I played with the Auto settings in the menu on the handlebar head unit (1st attachment - E6000 user manual) and this makes barely any difference at all.

I spoke to Shimano Tech, and was told there is a Auto setting available in e-Tube (2nd attachment - E6000 shop manual). However, upon further examination of the e-Tube Project documentation (3rd attachment), it looks as though this adjustment is the same -13 to 13 range that's available to me on the motor's handlebar head unit.

I asked for specifics from Shimano about what parameters are being monitored and used to determine gear selection, and he replied "only Japan knows." There's supposedly no super secret Shimano employees-only user manual for these back-end settings, despite the fact that some variables can only be modified though a remote log-in session between the bike shop and Shimano (parameters like tire roll-out and gearing, so end-users can't "trick" the system into violating the speed limit). The thing is, I don't see these settings referenced in the shop manuals I've downloaded, which makes me thinks Shimano should have additional internal material that covers what only they have access to.

Anyhow, none of this is a deal-killer. Manual shifting works just fine. The bike makes easy work of steep hills. I just have trouble believing Shimano would roll out a half-baked auto-shift function on this motor that performs this poorly in unremarkable conditions.


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JayVee

Well-Known Member
I used to ride the exact same setup on rental bikes. Never got the auto shifting to work properly despite trying. It was a while back in 2016, but if I remember correctly it was based on cadence. As you say, it was nice in theory but your cadence tends to vary. I would say it was buggy by default. I always used manual. The curator of the fleet never managed to explain this feature to me and I remember us going through a ton of menu settings and trying a bunch of stuff without ever getting it to work. I couldn’t complain too much because the ‘rental’ was in fact free and I got 1600 kms worth of spending zero over the course of 2 years...
 
I think I'm going to press ahead and see if I can tune this into something usable.

I found a page on Shimano's site that eggs me on: https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/info...upgrade-for-ebikes-with-shimano-steps-an.html

Shimano said:
The system was tested across a variety of terrain including flat areas and hilly areas, from cobble-stoned villages and cycleways to busy cities, to ensure perfect performance with fast cadence, high power or stop-and-go accelerations. The system also adds a further advantage with the ability to learn from a rider’s riding style and preference for cadence and power, so the rider can change the default RPM settings at which the hub changes gear.


...and then there's this Shimano-produced video I came across that provided more info than the Shimano Tech I spoke with by phone last week:

 

Nellyrock

New Member
i got a new Shimano MU UR500 Di2 Motor Unit different from the orginal i replaced my di2 for the alfine hub i have the same bike i noticed a change in auto shifting haven't tried hills yet
 

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That's the unit that "caps" the Alfine and performs the shifting magic, yes? I don't know which model my Misceo iE uses, but I'm guessing the MU-S705 based on pictures I'm pulling up. Though I'm curious what difference you're noticing, since it's still the system (the computer inside the drive motor) that's telling this unit when to perform the shift. So far, the actual shifts are fine, they're just timed poorly.
 

Nellyrock

New Member
its the MU UR500 yours is the MU-S705 it feels lot smoother just need to setup gear ratio once i test it up hill ill let you know how it is
 
I'm a little disappointed. (...but just a little --I expected this would be the outcome.)

I bought a second-hand Shimano SM-PCE02 interface to connect my PC to the E6000 motor, hoping to find an additional auto shift setting. It doesn't seem to exist.

As I poke through the various pages of settings, I've found only the same -13 to +13 "Auto" shift adjust setting, which mirrors what I've already set the system at through the E6000's head unit.

However, the good news is the "status report" generated by the Shimano software reported my battery health at "99%" (this despite is being about 40% charged while I was plugged in).

The reported also indicated "Assist Level: Comfort." I don't know what this setting corresponds to or what other choices there are, since there is no menu setting. Maybe there's a Shimano-settable "Performance" mode? If so, would this affect auto shifting? I'll have to get on the phone with Shimano and ask.

Also of note is that all of the Shimano-settable options such as chainring and cog sizes, and wheel roll-out, are not visible to me, other than in the status report. There are no grayed-out drop-downs or locked menus that would give the indication that these values are settable.
 

triprelay

New Member
Just joined EPR in the hope of finding some info about another STEPS query, but just read this thread and couldn't agree more. Since purchase January, I also have
Shimano Alfine 8-speed hub with (E6100) selectable auto shifting, but it certainly gets confused by hills, with much up/down erratic shifting, with worrying crunching sounds from hub when shifting under high torque. When I hit a steep hill now, I let it shift down one or two gears and then quickly select manual before auto starts to do stupid things. I was also told by bike manufacturer (Volt) that shifting decisions are not based on torque, but cadence. If so, this seems crazy, since after a down-shift on a hill, the natural rider reaction is to increase cadence as quickly as possible to maintain climb, but that then seems to trigger an inappropriate up shift. End result = switch to manual on hills..🥴
 

Nellyrock

New Member
So now that I have my Raleigh Misceo iE re-motored and up-and-running, I'm noticing the same unsatisfactory auto shifting behavior that I observed on the original motor, which had a faulty torque sensor.

For background, this bike is running the Shimano Alfine 8-speed hub, and uses Di2 electronic shifting via push buttons. The Shimano Steps E6000 drive system allows for on-the-fly switching between Auto or Manual shifting.

On flat terrain or gentle inclines, the auto shifting seems to perform well enough.

It quickly falls apart on hills, though. I pedal at a normal cadence, probably 60 to 70 RPM. It seems like when I hit an incline, the bike ignores all torque and speed inputs, and only looks at my cadence. As I spin up, it shifts early to a high gear, so high it even bogs down the motor. Only as the speed decays and my pedaling torque is extreme does is attempt a downshift, which is foolhardy due to the high load the chain is carrying.

If I back off and maintain a slow cadence, it performs nearly as poorly.

I try to override the Auto system by manually downshifting as I enter the hill, but in no time at all the Auto system overrides my gear selection and returns me to a higher gear.

I played with the Auto settings in the menu on the handlebar head unit (1st attachment - E6000 user manual) and this makes barely any difference at all.

I spoke to Shimano Tech, and was told there is a Auto setting available in e-Tube (2nd attachment - E6000 shop manual). However, upon further examination of the e-Tube Project documentation (3rd attachment), it looks as though this adjustment is the same -13 to 13 range that's available to me on the motor's handlebar head unit.

I asked for specifics from Shimano about what parameters are being monitored and used to determine gear selection, and he replied "only Japan knows." There's supposedly no super secret Shimano employees-only user manual for these back-end settings, despite the fact that some variables can only be modified though a remote log-in session between the bike shop and Shimano (parameters like tire roll-out and gearing, so end-users can't "trick" the system into violating the speed limit). The thing is, I don't see these settings referenced in the shop manuals I've downloaded, which makes me thinks Shimano should have additional internal material that covers what only they have access to.

Anyhow, none of this is a deal-killer. Manual shifting works just fine. The bike makes easy work of steep hills. I just have trouble believing Shimano would roll out a half-baked auto-shift function on this motor that performs this poorly in unremarkable conditions.


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hety sorry for the super late reply covid and all and started a shirt business theres a setting for how fast auto shift goes but responds good up with a medium cadance btw if you email me i have awsome gift for your bike if you havent already done it email me nrjr80@gmail.com
 

DAVID L

New Member
This thread corrresponds exactly with my experience-the auto works ok on level or gently undulating terrain but on steeper climbs it gets stuck, or changes the wrong way and the hub emits slightly worrying grating sounds. As mine is fitted to a tandem , I wondered whether it behaved better on single bikes, but obviously not. I also have doubts about how long the alfine 8 will cope with the torque of 2 riders plus motor, and I note there's a new more robust 5 speed Shimano hub now available, though whether that is compatible with the E6000 display is unknown. If the alfine 8 does break, I'll probably bite the bullet and go for the Rohloff manual hub which is expensive but tough.
 
... As mine is fitted to a tandem , I wondered whether it behaved better on single bikes, but obviously not. I also have doubts about how long the alfine 8 will cope with the torque of 2 riders plus motor,... If the alfine 8 does break, I'll probably bite the bullet and go for the Rohloff manual hub which is expensive but tough.
I run a Speedhub on our tandem and it's been bullet proof. I haven't used them, but there are electric shifting options for the Speedhub and I believe there's an auto shifting option in conjunction with Bosch motors.