How would store your battery for 5 months?

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Y. O.
There is so much noodle-doodle nonsense about the batteries on these bikes. Lands sake they're 18650 Lithium-Ion, same batteries used in laptops. IF you have a problem it's not the batteries, it's the controller.

Even though I'm not even a year into e-biking, I know the 18650 quite well from working with laptops. Hell my 12 cell for my old beach cruiser's headlight was built from cells recycled from laptop batteries.

These things are tough. The 12 cell pack I made from scrap has sat entire winters without being powered on in an unheated garage at temperatures ranging from -11F to 120F+, and still held almost 90% charge from full, without ever losing capacity.

So long as you don't have anything attached to suck on its power and it doesn't run completely flat, you SHOULD be fine. Unless it's the cheapest cells on the planet, there is no reason for it when not connected to lose more than 3-4% a month, without any damage to its max capacity.

Beyond that these crazy claims of battery storage methods are little more than placebo BS. If by specification they have an operating range of -10F to 185F, I really doubt you need to worry about temp when not under load.

The only real issue I would see is if the controller in the battery is too complex for its own good, and you drain it completely flat. Like... flatter than the level at which the controller turns off the flow to protect itself. Beyond that, I call bullcookies on most of these "tricks".

Give it enough charge to keep the built-in controller happy during your downtime, anything else is rubbish.

"Find the enemy and shoot him down, anything else is rubbish" -- Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen
As with the operating temperature range... Manufacturers provide storage temperatures and at certain voltage range recommendations.
You're free to think that you know better.
 

Jason Knight

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Keene, NH
As with the operating temperature range... Manufacturers provide storage temperatures and at certain voltage range recommendations.
Yes they do, and as someone who's worked in computer tech for four decades I can quote them to you.

The majority of manufacturers have a 6-10% rated monthly discharge rate, but note that said rate is % of current charge, not total charge.
They have an operating range when charging of 0-50C, and when discharging of -10C to 80C. (give or take +/- 5c), and a safe storage of -20 to 60C for one month, 45C limit for three months. Some do recommend not going past 20-25C highs if storing for over a year, but that depends on how much voltage is in them as -- here's the kicker -- as voltage drops so does the upper temperature it can be safely stored at. When I first found that out about them I was a bit shocked as it meant the care guides provided by most laptop makers were full of manure. Given e-bikes are using the same battery tech -- for the most part it seems -- they too seem to be full of it!

Which is why this "half charge" stuff is half-baked.

LG: https://voltaplex.com/media/whitepapers/specification-sheet/LG_HG2_Specification_Sheet.pdf

Panasonic: https://voltaplex.com/media/whitepapers/specification-sheet/Panasonic_A_Specification_Sheet.pdf

Sony: https://voltaplex.com/media/whitepapers/specification-sheet/Sony_VTC5_Specification_Sheet.pdf

All are within spitting distance of each-other because they're all the same tech in the same form factor. You split open pretty much any e-bike battery and you'll find that cell type inside.

Though I will say the half-charge play goofy games stuff would make perfect sense if we were still using ni-cads. Which makes me wonder if nobody has written a new care guide for rechargeable batteries in over 20 years, and everyone is just blindly copying outdated gibberish.

So unless your bike maker got suckered by garbage like e-bay / amazon batteries advertising thermodynamically impossible 9900mah per cell, where you take them apart and find out it's a plastic shell, a lead weight, and a 560mah AAA ni-cad...
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
Gotta love a guy that flies in the face of good science. Not. As if there aren’t enough have baked theories out there.

Go back and read Ravi’s battery post and watch the video by a scientist working with available cells. FFS there’s enough one bike wonder experts. Please don’t be another.
 

JES2020

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
Gotta love a guy that flies in the face of good science. Not. As if there aren’t enough have baked theories out there.

Go back and read Ravi’s battery post and watch the video by a scientist working with available cells. FFS there’s enough one bike wonder experts. Please don’t be another.
Listen to Tom, he is the resident S.T.E.
 

Jason Knight

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Keene, NH
.Go back and read Ravi’s battery post and watch the video by a scientist working with available cells. FFS there’s enough one bike wonder experts. Please don’t be another.
The who and the what? I'm either blind, or neither of those seem to exist in THIS thread (either page of it). Are you thinking of another?

Though whenever someone says "watch this video" it sets off my BS alarm these days. I think I'm getting too blasted jaded. Well, unless it's someone like Louis Rossman or ThunderF00t... where watching can actually make you even more jaded.

I am laughing though how people are talking about fires and other such stuff as if we were talking LiPo. Those are the ones you've got to watch out for.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
Jeebus. A video by a reknowned scientist. Not some YouTuber creating click bait. The search function works pretty well. Member Ravi and battery. We’re talking basic rules and common sense. NO ONE RECOMMENDS UNMONITORED CHARGING. BTW I freely admired my mistake regarding Rossman. 72v batteries from a flaky maker and an overvolted BBSHD with an external controller. Bad judgement and veiled facts. There are documented fires from the makers batteries. Take cheap builds, cheap components, steel connectors, $5 BMS, add poor management and have a disaster. Compound these elements with unmonitored charging…
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta



 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Y. O.
Yes they do, and as someone who's worked in computer tech for four decades I can quote them to you.

The majority of manufacturers have a 6-10% rated monthly discharge rate, but note that said rate is % of current charge, not total charge.
They have an operating range when charging of 0-50C, and when discharging of -10C to 80C. (give or take +/- 5c), and a safe storage of -20 to 60C for one month, 45C limit for three months. Some do recommend not going past 20-25C highs if storing for over a year, but that depends on how much voltage is in them as -- here's the kicker -- as voltage drops so does the upper temperature it can be safely stored at. When I first found that out about them I was a bit shocked as it meant the care guides provided by most laptop makers were full of manure. Given e-bikes are using the same battery tech -- for the most part it seems -- they too seem to be full of it!

Which is why this "half charge" stuff is half-baked.

LG: https://voltaplex.com/media/whitepapers/specification-sheet/LG_HG2_Specification_Sheet.pdf

Panasonic: https://voltaplex.com/media/whitepapers/specification-sheet/Panasonic_A_Specification_Sheet.pdf

Sony: https://voltaplex.com/media/whitepapers/specification-sheet/Sony_VTC5_Specification_Sheet.pdf

All are within spitting distance of each-other because they're all the same tech in the same form factor. You split open pretty much any e-bike battery and you'll find that cell type inside.

Though I will say the half-charge play goofy games stuff would make perfect sense if we were still using ni-cads. Which makes me wonder if nobody has written a new care guide for rechargeable batteries in over 20 years, and everyone is just blindly copying outdated gibberish.

So unless your bike maker got suckered by garbage like e-bay / amazon batteries advertising thermodynamically impossible 9900mah per cell, where you take them apart and find out it's a plastic shell, a lead weight, and a 560mah AAA ni-cad...
Let's just leave it at... You're smarter then the rest of us.
 
Last edited:

JES2020

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
The who and the what? I'm either blind, or neither of those seem to exist in THIS thread (either page of it). Are you thinking of another?

Though whenever someone says "watch this video" it sets off my BS alarm these days. I think I'm getting too blasted jaded. Well, unless it's someone like Louis Rossman or ThunderF00t... where watching can actually make you even more jaded.

I am laughing though how people are talking about fires and other such stuff as if we were talking LiPo. Those are the ones you've got to watch out for.
FYI you have just tried to have a conversation with the head nap deficient toddler, in the forums tricycle gang !
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
You go boy.
 

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Jason Knight

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Keene, NH
the search function works pretty well. Member Ravi and battery.
The way you worded the "go back and read" you made it sound like something from THIS thread. If you didn't mean that, link so people aren't hunting trying to magically read your mind.

Though given the Engrish moist goodry of your latter reply, I'm surprised anyone can decipher your meaning. I'm going a bit medieval on trying to decode anything you're saying Thamuel L. Thackson thyle.

Hwæt elland aer ye fram?
Hwæt nic ne elland Ic æfre heard aðf,
Dón man cweþan Englisc in Hwæt?
Englisc, modor wyrter! Gedon eow cweþan hit!?!
Cweþan hwæt æftersonam! Cweþan hwæt æftersonam!
Ic durran eow, Ic dyple durran eow!


But that's been a real problem for me lately online. It's like everyone is talking six different versions of English, and not understanding (or paying attention) to a single blasted thing being said. Or worse, magically expecting everyone to understand something you don't explain or isn't actually linked to and/or in the current thread.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
The way you worded the "go back and read" you made it sound like something from THIS thread. If you didn't mean that, link so people aren't hunting trying to magically read your mind.

Though given the Engrish moist goodry of your latter reply, I'm surprised anyone can decipher your meaning. I'm going a bit medieval on trying to decode anything you're saying Thamuel L. Thackson thyle.

Hwæt elland aer ye fram?
Hwæt nic ne elland Ic æfre heard aðf,
Dón man cweþan Englisc in Hwæt?
Englisc, modor wyrter! Gedon eow cweþan hit!?!
Cweþan hwæt æftersonam! Cweþan hwæt æftersonam!
Ic durran eow, Ic dyple durran eow!


But that's been a real problem for me lately online. It's like everyone is talking six different versions of English, and not understanding (or paying attention) to a single blasted thing being said. Or worse, magically expecting everyone to understand something you don't explain or isn't actually linked to and/or in the current thread.
I know it’s hard, let me help,
Ravi’s battery
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