I hate your ebike...

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
An excellent, well written article. Thanks for posting!

The only points missing are:
E-bikes are reducing the air pollution which we all need and love.
We don't need more old & crippled people on e-bikes clogging our bike trails.
 

com4n6

Member
I'm guessing that road bikers are just pissed that they have been working so hard to improve their time and show their competitive friends how good they are, and here you come along and pass them like they were standing still without breaking a sweat... lol :)
That is/was THEIR choice! Mine is to ride an eBike. Simple!
 

AZOldTech

Active Member
Funny they don't think motorcycles are cheating. Those are the real cheaters!
They don't have pedals. On an ebike you look like you are biking (meaning your legs are moving like a regular bike) but depending on the assist, it could be all just for show... LOL
 

christob

Well-Known Member
It tickles me for any number of reasons...

I think many "serious" pedal cyclists tend to view any ebike (and perhaps especially the throttled ones) as an insult to their personally-defined conception of cycling. But why they allow themselves to be bothered when an ebiker passes them (especially if the pedal cyclist is working hard) is puzzling. If I were a serious pedal cyclist (ie, entering races, making time trials, chasing KOT's, challenging goals, etc. -- all of that competitive stuff...) I think I'd simply ignore all e-bikes passing me, in terms of evaluating whether I was just passed by a "worthy competitor"... It simply is not an apples-to-apples comparison, otherwise!
So why not opt to disregard the passing ebiker -- instead of defaulting to a feeling of being threatened or bested by an "unworthy competitor"? Does anyone truly believe that say, a fit, hard-core, devoted pedal cyclist working up an incline, is being bested as an athletic comparison, when an ebiker passes them?? It seems like so much of that kind of judgmental reaction is driven by notions-of-self which the pedal cyclist has, and how easily they may feel affronted at a perceived diminishing of their efforts.

And yet... for those who are brash enough to yell out "Cheater!" -- how many "cheats" could be counted for them, allowing them to further cheat physics in their own rides? The drag-reducing full lycra gear... the super-light bike frame and hardware designed for the full-tuck posture... The near universal choice to disobey any lawful traffic signals or stops so as to keep their speed up and their time down...
My favorite has to be the serious pedal-cyclist who comes right up smack behind me to draft off of me while I'm cruising along, pedaling in my nearly-upright posture -- at that point, they're benefiting almost as directly as I am, from my motor's assist! Should I risk yelling out "Cheater!" ?? hehehe!
 

AZOldTech

Active Member
I don’t know. My legs will tell you that they’re still paying the iron price.
Having riden, and competitively at that, regular road bikes and now ebikes, I can assure you there is nothing "iron price" of a "top" effort on an ebike versus a "top" effort versus a regular road bike. But your definition of an "iron price" may be different than mine.
 

Toomanycats

Active Member
Having riden, and competitively at that, regular road bikes and now ebikes, I can assure you there is nothing "iron price" of a "top" effort on an ebike versus a "top" effort versus a regular road bike.
It depends on what type of shape you are in to begin with. I am a woman in her 60s with scoliosis, degenerative disc disease, and arthritic knees. Your fancy road bike and superior athleticism are out of my reach for many reasons. I get a damn good workout on my ebike, and it feels like an iron price considering that I can’t walk for more than 20 minutes at a time, but I can ride 15-20 miles, peddling hard for most of it on an ebike.
 

Johnny

Active Member
Having riden, and competitively at that, regular road bikes and now ebikes, I can assure you there is nothing "iron price" of a "top" effort on an ebike versus a "top" effort versus a regular road bike. But your definition of an "iron price" may be different than mine.
While keeping up with with some road bikers while they were paying their "iron price", doing 21-22 mph on a 20mph limited ebike I believe I have paid that at least some price. Of course let's be clear I am not talking about competitive cycling.

Your argument is nonsense, the science is simple, it all depends on the power you put out yourself. I am stronger than a significant portion of the roadies but I still take my ebike any day. Instead of going 5mph uphill, sweating without enough wind to cool me down, I do 9-10mph put the same effort while feeling the wind, have way more fun. For most of last year I decreased the assist level to %15-20 (less than half of eco mode) this made the bicycle feel like a nice road bike despite inefficient but comfortable riding position, plush but heavy suspension.

If your definition of "iron price" is road rage, running the stop signs or lights, complaining about ebikers when you have absolutely no right to, then I definitely don't want to pay such price.

I just have respect for elderly people who ride their ebikes while putting as much effort as they can(except the ones who just use throttle all the time). Without an ebike these people would not be able to enjoy their lives as much, would not be as healthy.
 
Last edited:

AZOldTech

Active Member
Yada yada yada... I'm telling you what the "cheater" yelling road bicyclist is thinking, NOT what YOU wish he was thinking. Cause in his view the "bicycle lane" since the beginning has been called a "bike" lane, not "bike and motorized ebike" lane. ;)
 
Last edited:

AZOldTech

Active Member
BTW, I found this from Bosch's page: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/everything-about-the-ebike/stories/three-class-ebike-system/
IMO, I think we need a federal regulation that applies to all 50 states, rather than each state having their own unique differences. And based on the definitions below, I can see why mechanical bikers are calling ebikes going faster than 20mph "cheaters"....

The three classes are defined as follows:
  • Class 1: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph.
  • Class 2: eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
  • Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with NO throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.
All classes limit the motor’s power to 1 horsepower (750W).

Classes and Access
Some states treat Class 1 eBikes like traditional mountain or pavement bicycles, legally allowed to ride where bicycles are permitted, including bike lanes, roads, multiuse trails and bike-only paths. New York City’s Mayor de Blasio recently announced the city will officially allow Class 1 eBikes. While New York City’s decision is unrelated to singletrack trail use for electric mountain bikes (eMTBs), we believe that Class 1 pedal-assist eBikes should have the same rights and responsibilities as traditional bikes and therefore also be allowed on non-motorized mountain bike trails, as is the case in Europe.

Class 2 throttle-assist eBikes are often allowed most places a traditional bicycle can go, though some states and cities are opting for additional restrictions (e.g. New York City & Michigan State). Class 2 may not be suitable for singletrack mountainbike trails - it has been shown that they pose greater physical damage to trails due to the throttle-actuation. Class 2 may be better suited for multi-use OHV trails designed for more rugged off-road vehicles.

Class 3 Bikes (ed: remember that class 3 - or an ebike going faster than 20mph - is supposed to have NO throttle) are typically allowed on roads and on-road bike lanes (“curb to curb” infrastructure), but restricted from bike trails and multiuse paths. While a 20-mph maximum speed is achievable on a traditional bicycle, decision makers and agencies consider the greater top-assisted speed of a Class 3 eBike too fast for most bike paths and trails that are often shared with other trail users.

Everyone stands to benefit from common-sense rules on how and where to ride an eBike. With clear regulation and updated state laws, law enforcement will understand what rights eBike users have and when to enforce the law, and easily identify the class of bike based on the sticker. Bike retailers can help their customers understand where each type of eBike can be used, boosting their sales. People who already ride eBkes will have easy rules to follow on where they can ride, and new bicyclists who may be discouraged from riding a traditional bicycle due to limited physical fitness, age, disability or convenience gain new transportation alternatives.
 
Last edited:

TaraBara

Member
This is a ridiculous comparison of apples to oranges. Ebikes are in there own class. Bicycles have their place as well. It's all about owner preference. You can burn as many calories either way.....it's all about how you want to do it. Cheating is a word for the closed minded individual who would like to see the usual 10% of all Americans biking. Ebikes will change the statistic by making a new generation of biking available. Open your mind..... the more bikers.... the better the trails, roads, and bikes. Why does anyone care what the other person is doing. Doing!!!!!...……..now that's the key word. You do you.... and I'll do what I do.
 
Last edited:

Johnny

Active Member
Put a limit on rider + motor power (say 500W), no one will come close to 40mph with that limitation. Of course that would eliminate cadence only bikes.

20mph is sometimes frustrating(but I wouldn't call it slow for anything, I think for urban riding it is good). Unfortunately most fit cyclists can ride around 22-24mph , 20 cutoff is really put them on the edge when on an ebike. I can keep 21mph on my ebike without assistance it doesn't make sense when a roadie can reach 2-3mph more with the same effort.

Just update the limit to 23-24mph and after that require a licence. I am sure if the limit were 24mph instead of 20 many people wouldn't buy 28mph ones.
 

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
Then you will end up with 40+mph crazy ebikers using 20mph bike roads with deadly results. And that is why you need regulations for Class 1-class 3 ebikes.
In Principle, I agree. However, regulations alone won't stop the "outlaw" crowd who will do what they want regardless of the law. Regulation, coupled with enforcement, hefty fines, bike confiscation and maybe even some jail time for repeat offenders might get the attention of some.
 

AZOldTech

Active Member
Regulation, coupled with enforcement, hefty fines, bike confiscation and maybe even some jail time for repeat offenders might get the attention of some.
I agree. And that is already happening in some places (enforcement and tickets) and as ebikes proliferate even more and you mix vastly different motorised speeds and different abilities, injuries are bound to increase and possibly deaths unfortunately. Add to that people are getting upset with the proliferation of motorized e-scooters on sidewalks, and all of them will be screaming to their local politicians to act.
 

AZOldTech

Active Member
Put a limit on rider + motor power (say 500W), no one will come close to 40mph with that limitation. Of course that would eliminate cadence only bikes.

20mph is sometimes frustrating(but I wouldn't call it slow for anything, I think for urban riding it is good). Unfortunately most fit cyclists can ride around 22-24mph , 20 cutoff is really put them on the edge when on an ebike. I can keep 21mph on my ebike without assistance it doesn't make sense when a roadie can reach 2-3mph more with the same effort.

Just update the limit to 23-24mph and after that require a licence. I am sure if the limit were 24mph instead of 20 many people wouldn't buy 28mph ones.
I agree on the 500W motor limit. That is all I have and use and reaching a speed of 25 and 28mph is not a problem for those that want it (both the Aventon Pace 500 and Ride1up can do 28mph and 25mph respectively with their 500W motors). It will also mean all those with 750W motors will be made illegal unfortunately.