I have narrowed it down to two

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
Not to discourage anyone wanting to build their own, but after having done that as well as buying one over the counter, I'd suggest people consider both. I know for a fact there are home built pieces of crap (most actually, in my experience), just as I'm sure there are some available over the counter.
If you built your own bike and then could turn around and buy one that was better you didn't get it right the 1st time. Show me any production ebike that has a 1000W mid-drive and a 30Ah battery. Let alone full-suspension, Rohloff Speed-hub, dynamo hub & head-light, pedal assist and throttle, hydraulic disc-brakes, built-in rear rack. The beauty in "building " your own ebike is that you don't have to deal with all the limitations that production bikes have. I'm not talking about getting out the MIG-welder or anything. It's so simple, find the perfect bike for you and hang a BBSHD or 02 on it. Fat bike, hard-tail, MTB, tour-bike, cruiser, even antiques. After owning 3 30Ah lithium triangle packs I would never want to ride with anything less. $700 bucks for a battery, $600+ for a BBSHD, $300 for a Grin Satiator, add an input control of your choice and you have a better ebike than anything produced today. I am fully trying to discourage anyone from looking at an internet ebike, or any ebike with less than 750W, or any ebike with a hub-motor. But, hey... what do I know. When you take the time to build one you start to learn how to do all the maintenance the bike needs too. Wrench, 2 sockets, a couple of Allen wrenches. and some spacers to get the chain line straight. Lots-O-YouTube videos to follow step by step. Or pay someone to hang it for you... you're still going to have to learn how to maintain the bike though. Just because most home builds are "crap" doesn't mean they have to be.
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
I did research building one but the problem I was having was that the fat tire bikes I would use as the base were either too expensive for just the bike ($1000+) or they were 17'' frames or 18'' frames with low handlebars that would be too small for my height. Also even with the cheaper fat tire bikes it would end up costing me more than just the radrover. So I figure I will just make modifications to the radrover eventually like a larger 21ah battery, new controller + display, and a new motor and it will have everything I want to have.
Good luck with that.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
If you built your own bike and then could turn around and buy one that was better you didn't get it right the 1st time. Show me any production ebike that has a 1000W mid-drive and a 30Ah battery. Let alone full-suspension, Rohloff Speed-hub, dynamo hub & head-light, pedal assist and throttle, hydraulic disc-brakes, built-in rear rack. The beauty in "building " your own ebike is that you don't have to deal with all the limitations that production bikes have. I'm not talking about getting out the MIG-welder or anything. It's so simple, find the perfect bike for you and hang a BBSHD or 02 on it. Fat bike, hard-tail, MTB, tour-bike, cruiser, even antiques. After owning 3 30Ah lithium triangle packs I would never want to ride with anything less. $700 bucks for a battery, $600+ for a BBSHD, $300 for a Grin Satiator, add an input control of your choice and you have a better ebike than anything produced today. I am fully trying to discourage anyone from looking at an internet ebike, or any ebike with less than 750W, or any ebike with a hub-motor. But, hey... what do I know. When you take the time to build one you start to learn how to do all the maintenance the bike needs too. Wrench, 2 sockets, a couple of Allen wrenches. and some spacers to get the chain line straight. Lots-O-YouTube videos to follow step by step. Or pay someone to hang it for you... you're still going to have to learn how to maintain the bike though. Just because most home builds are "crap" doesn't mean they have to be.

For starters, you're talking about a pretty specialized bike, and assuming it's going to satisfy anyone that see's it. WRONG! It's WAY over the top for many riders. Why would anyone want to drag around the extra weight of that battery and suspension if all you're doing is commuting 5 miles to work and back on paved roads? Or lug it up a flight of stairs to your apartment?

Another "for instance", because I live in a hilly area, my perfect bike would be based on a GMAC rear hub for the awesome regen afforded by that setup. I have NO interest in a mid drive - for a FEW reasons that are way off topic here! Open a new subject and I'll be happy to engage you on the topic.

Second, just as you say all home builts aren't a big pile of crap (with cables and wires hanging out everywhere), If you had an open mind on the topic, pretty sure you would see over the counter stuff that would be as impressive as anything you can build!

Bottom line, though you do describe a set of specifications that will appeal to some, it has features FAR from the universal appeal you allude to. -Al
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
For starters, you're talking about a pretty specialized bike, and assuming it's going to satisfy anyone that see's it. WRONG! It's WAY over the top for many riders. Why would anyone want to drag around the extra weight of that battery and suspension if all you're doing is commuting 5 miles to work and back on paved roads? Or lug it up a flight of stairs to your apartment?

Another "for instance", because I live in a hilly area, my perfect bike would be based on a GMAC rear hub for the awesome regen afforded by that setup. I have NO interest in a mid drive - for a FEW reasons that are way off topic here! Open a new subject and I'll be happy to engage you on the topic.

Second, just as you say all home builts aren't a big pile of crap (with cables and wires hanging out everywhere), If you had an open mind on the topic, pretty sure you would see over the counter stuff that would be as impressive as anything you can build!

Bottom line, though you do describe a set of specifications that will appeal to some, it has features FAR from the universal appeal you allude to. -Al
"For Starters", "Another", and Bottom line"... wow. Did you read the basic statement? "Find the perfect bike for you and hang a BBSHD or 02 on it. Fat bike, hard-tail, MTB, tour-bike, cruiser, even antiques." I don't assume anything. If you want a bike you can carry back to the car after a whole 10 miles ride... fine. I didn't want to collect bikes like shoes, one for this, one for that, a fast bike, a comfortable bike, and on and on. An ebike that you commute (rather than walk) 5 miles a day can also be ridden 75 miles on a long warm day when and IF you actually "do it" rather than just argue about "how you would do it". Also, I can walk my bike up-stairs pretty easily with the motor but I understand the point.

This is a good one... you want a light bike and one that does regen? Hummmmmmmmmmm, not gonna happen, at least not well. Regen capability has to have (significant) weight for gravity to pull it downhill to capture even 5 to 10%. Why do you want regen if you only ride short distances?

My mind is "open" except on Lima beans I hate those nasty little things. I hate to point this out but bikes have had cables and wires "hanging out everywhere" ever since hand brakes and gears were added. Not sure how that affects the ride, you know... since that's what bikes are for. I enjoyed women from the 70s more than a woman from the 2000s... if you see what I'm getting at.

The real "bottom line" here is that you brought up your tern "universal appeal" not me. I said you can build a better ebike than you can buy and I stick by that. Especially when the owner/builder can get over the hump in understanding how much better a mid-drive is than a converted washing machine motor. My set of specifications is exactly that, mine. Most people don't spend the time on their bike(s) or use it/them in the way I do. Do you need a Speed-hub to ride to work, nope, but once you have one you don't want to go back, like cooking on a stove daily rather than over a fire.

The problem is that 90% of ebike riders have no idea what they want at 1st and are missing the target when they buy the lowest end (cheapest) ebike they can find. Production ebikes are built to sell more than they are built to ride. I like the feel of cut crystal in my hand, single malt tastes better when you drink it out of a cut crystal glass and I wouldn't drink it out of a paper cup... others would.

The specs I mentioned were mid-drive, big battery, the best charger (Grin Satiator) and a input control.

If anyone would have been building an ebike that can do what mine does I would have considered it... no one was or is to this day.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Hector, I'll look past the insults one time. Last response unless you can maintain a civil tone.

This in response to your washing machine motor claim.... To sell me on mid drive-
You're going to have to come up with a mid drive with regen so effective that it needs to be variable (like a throttle in reverse) to prevent loss of control due to wheel lock up, even at speeds under 10mph. Works in hills yes, but it also works in stop and go situations at speeds low enough to be effective.

You're also going to have to show me something running 1000W+ that I can shift under full power.

Or something able to pull substantial amounts of thrust - in ANY gear.

If you are not already familiar with the new GMAC hub, or even the MAC 12t, suggest you have a look prior to answering. They are not your average 500w hub motor....

As far as "first bike" being a mistake, I tend to agree. But, kinda like a boat or an RV, you're smart to buy the first one knowing full well it's going to be a mistake. After using it for a bit, and learning a TON, you want to be able to get out of it in reasonable shape and move on to something using lessons learned. Doing that without loosing your shirt too bad will be MUCH easier with a well known retail bike. -Al
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
Hector, I'll look past the insults one time. Last response unless you can maintain a civil tone.

This in response to your washing machine motor claim.... To sell me on mid drive-
You're going to have to come up with a mid drive with regen so effective that it needs to be variable (like a throttle in reverse) to prevent loss of control due to wheel lock up, even at speeds under 10mph. Works in hills yes, but it also works in stop and go situations at speeds low enough to be effective.

You're also going to have to show me something running 1000W+ that I can shift under full power.

Or something able to pull substantial amounts of thrust - in ANY gear.

If you are not already familiar with the new GMAC hub, or even the MAC 12t, suggest you have a look prior to answering. They are not your average 500w hub motor....

As far as "first bike" being a mistake, I tend to agree. But, kinda like a boat or an RV, you're smart to buy the first one knowing full well it's going to be a mistake. After using it for a bit, and learning a TON, you want to be able to get out of it in reasonable shape and move on to something using lessons learned. Doing that without loosing your shirt too bad will be MUCH easier with a well known retail bike. -Al
I'm not trying to "sell" you anything (horse to water situation) but let's just cut to the chase... I have no desire to sugarcoat things for people that have thin skin. Feel free to ignore my hard-earned knowledge. I have never bought anything without knowing full well what I wanted and simply don't waste money on anything that won't suit my wants and needs. Employ thy mind before thy credit card. If you never ride, if you ride so little it doesn't matter, if you never leave smooth surfaces, if you have never climbed a hill for most of the day, if you don't carry any gear, if you'd rather buy something to see if by some miracle it's close to what you want, if you think "thrust" is a term used with bicycles, if you think shifting under "full power" (1.3 h.p.) is necessary then something like the RadRover is perfect. I trashed a heavy-duty Mavic rim with a fully-suspended mid-drive ebike in 14K miles... what do you think a washing machine mounted in the hub would have done?

All that said... I'm going for a long ride on 60% capacity of a single battery. If you think my tone was anything other than... "even" there is no sense in further conversation. I hope you enjoy all the ebikes you buy until you realize what's wrong with them, good luck.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
If you built your own bike and then could turn around and buy one that was better you didn't get it right the 1st time.

Show me any production ebike that has a 1000W mid-drive and a 30Ah battery. Let alone full-suspension, Rohloff Speed-hub, dynamo hub & head-light, pedal assist and throttle, hydraulic disc-brakes, built-in rear rack. The beauty in "building " your own ebike is that you don't have to deal with all the limitations that production bikes have. I'm not talking about getting out the MIG-welder or anything. It's so simple, find the perfect bike for you and hang a BBSHD or 02 on it. Fat bike, hard-tail, MTB, tour-bike, cruiser, even antiques. After owning 3 30Ah lithium triangle packs I would never want to ride with anything less.

$700 bucks for a battery, $600+ for a BBSHD, $300 for a Grin Satiator, add an input control of your choice and you have a better ebike than anything produced today. I am fully trying to discourage anyone from looking at an internet ebike, or any ebike with less than 750W, or any ebike with a hub-motor. But, hey... what do I know. When you take the time to build one you start to learn how to do all the maintenance the bike needs too. Wrench, 2 sockets, a couple of Allen wrenches. and some spacers to get the chain line straight. Lots-O-YouTube videos to follow step by step. Or pay someone to hang it for you... you're still going to have to learn how to maintain the bike though. Just because most home builds are "crap" doesn't mean they have to be.
 

Jgreen92

New Member
Just because you made your own ebike with high end components doesn't mean everyone wants or needs that. Why did you come to my thread just to go on a crusade against buying a built ebike? I can easily modify the radrover if I choose to and it will be what I want to have.

I also see you are a new member like me so did you just make your account here to attack people who dare to buy a pre-built bike?
 

Jgreen92

New Member
This thread should probably just be closed if there are mods around because I don't need it anymore and Hector is just trolling it seems.
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
Just because you made your own ebike with high end components doesn't mean everyone wants or needs that. Why did you come to my thread just to go on a crusade against buying a built ebike? I can easily modify the radrover if I choose to and it will be what I want to have.

I also see you are a new member like me so did you just make your account here to attack people who dare to buy a pre-built bike?
I gave you my opinion it wasn't what you wanted to hear... the other comments were replies to others. I come here to try and help people not waste money. You "dare" to be you. Be sure to show some pics.... "when" you buy it.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
I gave you my opinion it wasn't what you wanted to hear... the other comments were replies to others.
I come here to try and help people not waste money. You "dare" to be you. Be sure to show some pics.... "when" you buy it.

Time to knock it off.
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
Hard-tails (with a bobble-head seat post) and with bolt-on racks. Super expensive batteries about 40% too expensive. Ti isn't the material I would want a touring bike made of but it would be fun to ride for a day. Auron fork... maybe they are better than previous years but they are about the least expensive fork you can buy. The worst aspect for me is the frame is designed to carry only that motor. I like having the option to remove and/or replace the motor at any time. They use Gates belt drive which would be clean, but again not for a tour bike or a suspended bike. No one on this site... or this thread any way would even think of paying that much for a bike. I can already hear, "hell, I could buy 4 RadRovers for that price."

I rode along-side (mostly in front of) a Stromer ST5 today. I passed him and smiled and could see him in my mirrors stand up and start grunting. At 27 mph the guy had to pump hard and continuously just to stay with me. I went to PAS 3 (9 levels) and just walked away from him. When I let him struggle back along-side me I thumbed the throttle and stayed at 27 mph while he continued to gave it all he had. He said he had to go to turbo just to keep up. He was shocked at the difference in performance... I wasn't. Ride safe.

 

E-Wheels

Well-Known Member

Attachments

  • EFC1B9F9-53AC-4452-9569-02A502EF594C.png
    EFC1B9F9-53AC-4452-9569-02A502EF594C.png
    1.3 MB · Views: 36
Last edited:

Over50

Well-Known Member
Hectors Ghost is not a new member
He has been here before under the handle of Brian Bassett
Follow the link on this post and see who the photo album belongs to https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/show-today-ride.32961/

All his previous posts under the Brian Bassett handle have been deleted

Thanks for the heads up @E-Wheels. Now I can preemptively ignore the new version of Mr. Bassett as I had the old ... really knows how to turn a thread into an unproductive rabbit hole of negativity.
 

E-Wheels

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the heads up @E-Wheels. Now I can preemptively ignore the new version of Mr. Bassett as I had the old ... really knows how to turn a thread into an unproductive rabbit hole of negativity.
You’re welcome, but full credit to webcurl