I hope that Haibike is here to stay...

smorgasbord

Well-Known Member
More generally, I have wondered how committed to the US market any of the European-based companies really are. Of course, they're limited by what Bosch and Shimano make in terms of motors (and they don't make 750 watt versions). As long as they restrict their offerings to what is allowable in Europe and don't customize for the US market, Haibike and other European manufacturers are not likely to have real success in the US, IMO.

Even BMW finally relented and put cupholders in their cars. Way past time for European bike makers to cater to the US market and make what Americans really want.
 

Mike TowpathTraveler

Well-Known Member
More generally, I have wondered how committed to the US market any of the European-based companies really are. Of course, they're limited by what Bosch and Shimano make in terms of motors (and they don't make 750 watt versions). As long as they restrict their offerings to what is allowable in Europe and don't customize for the US market, Haibike and other European manufacturers are not likely to have real success in the US, IMO.

Even BMW finally relented and put cupholders in their cars. Way past time for European bike makers to cater to the US market and make what Americans really want.

They do customize to the US market by making bikes suitable for the US Class 1 and Class 3 standards, compared to the very restrictive Euro 15mph standards. And I figure that's fast enough. Anything faster on the bike lanes and trails would be running in motorcycle territory and that is not going to cut it with the greater bicycle riding public. Nor should it.

They make a very fine bike, right up there with Trek and Specialized; arguably with better bike components for the price point. Yamaha owes Haibike a thank you for carrying Yamaha power before the american ebike buyer before other bike builders got into the game.

IMO, their troubles within the US began when Susanne Puello (brand managing director who oversaw the entire Haibike entry into Bosch and Yamaha powered ebikes as well as grandaughter to the founding member of the bike company) left the company after it was bought out by the Dutch owned Accell group. Since she left, have all of these negative stories surfaced in the press. My hope is that the new US distributor, Regent, fixes this brand perception in the US; building a good foundation with US bike shops as well as being a super responsive, pro-customer oriented friend to the buyer when it comes to any warranty issues popping up. And get that Flyon release on-target for the US.

Even better, bring back Susanne and Felix Puello and put them in their old positions.

I imagine folks more tuned into the industry, like Mikes Ebikes, Ravi or Court have interesting opinions as to what happened under the Accell ownership in North America. A truly great ebike like the Haibike should not be allowed to fade away due to corporate indifference or incompetence or arrogance.



 

LimboJim

Well-Known Member
This is anecdotal, but there may be hope for HaibikeUSA's customer support mechanism, after all.

A friend's 2016 FatSix frame broke recently, and after some brouhaha, Haibike agreed to refund his original purchase price.

He was so impressed that he's planning to use the money to buy another Haibike!

1583314904903.png
 

Browneye

Well-Known Member
Crazy Lenny's mentioned they were negotiating with BH on a similar vein as Haibike.
US market is tough. There's a lot of interest for sure, but I don't think people really do know what they want.
We'll have to see what this covid thing does to China manufacturing supply chain.
 

cuwatra

Active Member
Crazy Lenny's mentioned they were negotiating with BH on a similar vein as Haibike.
US market is tough. There's a lot of interest for sure, but I don't think people really do know what they want.
We'll have to see what this covid thing does to China manufacturing supply chain.
How can the US market know what it wants? There's a dizzying array of products and specifications on bikes and the technology is moving pretty fast. "Choice Paralysis" as I've recently heard another say.
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
More generally, I have wondered how committed to the US market any of the European-based companies really are. Of course, they're limited by what Bosch and Shimano make in terms of motors (and they don't make 750 watt versions). As long as they restrict their offerings to what is allowable in Europe and don't customize for the US market, Haibike and other European manufacturers are not likely to have real success in the US, IMO.

Even BMW finally relented and put cupholders in their cars. Way past time for European bike makers to cater to the US market and make what Americans really want.
I've said it many times before, Haibike builds an eBike exactly like I want. I live in Peoria, IL the home of vaudeville saying "If it will play in Peoria, it will play anywhere". But your statement about make what Americans really want is hilarious. There isn't a single thought today that half of Americans won't love or detest at the same time. Reminds me of a Simpson's episode.
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
This is anecdotal, but there may be hope for HaibikeUSA's customer support mechanism, after all.

A friend's 2016 FatSix frame broke recently, and after some brouhaha, Haibike agreed to refund his original purchase price.

He was so impressed that he's planning to use the money to buy another Haibike!

View attachment 46768
I call this "Breaking News" :) for all of us Haibike owners to have a bit more optimism concerning potential warranty claims. I would probably do the same and opt for another Haibike and give them some praise. Thanks for sharing.
 

smorgasbord

Well-Known Member
But your statement about make what Americans really want is hilarious.

In general terms, sure. But for eBikes, it remains important that what the companies offer in Europe is tuned to what Europeans want and ARE ALLOWED to use, whereas for the US, they only do minor tweaks. They do NOT design for the US market, and it shows.

Your comment about playing in Peoria meaning it'll play anywhere is similarly wrong. The highest point in your whole state is only 1,235 feet. My home is at an elevation of almost twice that, and I've climbed mountains near home that are almost 4X that. A bike that suits you in IL may not suit me in CA.
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
How can the US market know what it wants? There's a dizzying array of products and specifications on bikes and the technology is moving pretty fast. "Choice Paralysis" as I've recently heard another say.
"a dizzying array of products "
This did not help matters much when Haibike was offering tons of different models a few years back. Talk about confusing the consumer with so many to choose from in their lineup would be an understatement. I like the fact that they now have toned it down a bit and made their naming conventions easier to understand.
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
In general terms, sure. But for eBikes, it remains important that what the companies offer in Europe is tuned to what Europeans want and ARE ALLOWED to use, whereas for the US, they only do minor tweaks. They do NOT design for the US market, and it shows.

Your comment about playing in Peoria meaning it'll play anywhere is similarly wrong. The highest point in your whole state is only 1,235 feet. My home is at an elevation of almost twice that, and I've climbed mountains near home that are almost 4X that. A bike that suits you in IL may not suit me in CA.
I have biked in both locations and you are spot on with your comment. No comparison. I have seen us locals in Illinois referred to as "Flatlanders"by out-of-towners.
I personally have not experienced 1,235 elevation anywhere here, however, I would think it would be quite uncommon.
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
In general terms, sure. But for eBikes, it remains important that what the companies offer in Europe is tuned to what Europeans want and ARE ALLOWED to use, whereas for the US, they only do minor tweaks. They do NOT design for the US market, and it shows.

Your comment about playing in Peoria meaning it'll play anywhere is similarly wrong. The highest point in your whole state is only 1,235 feet. My home is at an elevation of almost twice that, and I've climbed mountains near home that are almost 4X that. A bike that suits you in IL may not suit me in CA.
It's called humor, not a factual statement. Right? What would a vaudevillian statement have to do with eBikes?
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
The Haibikes 2020 e-bike models have hit the European market, you can only find 2019 models being sold on the USA website. I have seen the exodus of other German e-bike manufacturers in the past few years. I happen to own 2 Haibikes a road and a MTB. Hopefully, Haibike is not next to go.

Accell group which owns Haibike posted profitable 2019 results. After dumping the US operations, they are doing very well in Europe.
See below.

https://pedelec-elektro-fahrrad.de/...em-wachstum-unternehmenswert-und-ebit/518321/
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
Actually I have Chinese guitars and basses that perform great. I never blinked once when purchasing my wifes and my eBikes, made in China. Some of the same exact debates on price and quality go on in guitar forums.
hey i have zero issue with MIC products, Both my Bikes are MIC head to toe, i ride the hell out of them and they perform great!
One of my favorite guitars my MIC Epiphone 339! dont get me wrong i also love my MIA Kiesels guitars and i would love love love to own a Riese & Muller Load! .....when it rocks it rocks,when its lame its lame, i dont care where or how something is produced as long as no one is being hurt or exploited in the process.
 

GypsyTreker

Well-Known Member
hey i have zero issue with MIC products, Both my Bikes are MIC head to toe, i ride the hell out of them and they perform great!
One of my favorite guitars my MIC Epiphone 339! dont get me wrong i also love my MIA Kiesels guitars and i would love love love to own a Riese & Muller Load! .....when it rocks it rocks,when its lame its lame, i dont care where or how something is produced as long as no one is being hurt or exploited in the process.

Love my Epi Les Paul 1959 Std (LTD) Had a Sheriton MIK I wish I still had. I agree if they work, they work.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
I have a 1979 Pearl Custom Export electric guitar and a 1978 Greco Electric Bass, both MIJ. Are we on topic?

The wealthiest nation in the world with a population of some 360 million; with a Baby Boomer population getting older......you have to hand it to the smug Euros who think they know better, or dare not venture into a country where they would have to work their fanny's off to get market share!
...with ten times less e-bikes than in Europe. May I ask for reasons?
 

Mike TowpathTraveler

Well-Known Member
...with ten times less e-bikes than in Europe. May I ask for reasons?

Sure, lotsa reasons, but this is just my opinion: Bicycles in the US up until recent years, were never thought of as a means of primary transportation by the great majority of the population. The folks all decked out in their chamois shorts and cycling jerseys and front and rear panniers were considered the odd duck of the lot, rarely seen on the roadways. And the roadways; here in the US up until recent years, local, county, state and federal road designers and builders never thought much of giving lane access to bicyclists. Thanks to many dedicated cyclists, they have begun to force the issue of providing safe bicycle lanes in the planning of most new roadways. Had it not been for these people, it'd still be like pedaling about as I did in the 1970's, with very little road side shoulder I could ride on, in a motoring environment that had not much but disdain for a bicyclist "invading their space".

These attitudes still exist in many areas, but things are turning around as motorists become more aware of, and accomodating of bicyclists. Maybe there is more enlightenment among motorists as those of the WW2 era have basically faded from the driving scene and have given way to the baby boomers, who grew up with bicycles, who remember those Christmas Mornings with that new Schwinn Orange Crate or 10 speeder right next to the Christmas Tree.....

Still, with all of this progress towards making bicycles a real solution and part of our transportation landscape, many people are still of the idea that a thousand dollar bike, let alone a 4 to 10 thousand dollar ebike, is absolutely an insane idea. Heck, in alot of ways, I do to, looking at the prices asked of an upper tier Specialized or Pivot ebike.

Speaking of Ebikes, within the bicycling community, there is a very parochial, very narrow minded and hard core segment of bikers, particularly mountain bikers, who feel that an e-mtb on "their" trail is a non-starter. Take a peek at the Ebikes forum over on the MTBR website to see how selfish some of these folks are, people who have an instant bias against hikers, horseback riders as well as ebikers being on these trails. These folks are a determined lot and they know how to play the land managers responsible for the jurisdiction of many parks and open space. On the other hand, I see Ebike advocates fighting back. The Trump Administration is ebike friendly as it has opened up many National Park lands once closed to ebikes. It remains a long political slog to have ebikes recognized by our govt leadership.

The US is a very big country; sitting in 4 time zones, with a very diverse land in just about every corner of this land. Imagine a land with the Rocky Mountains, the flat prairie grasses of the midwest, the short and steep Appalachian Mountain belt in the East; in all manner of temperature ranges, settled and lived in by a people with their own set of priorities, their own idea of politics. From Ranchers to Eastern City Slickers. The American People perfected the automobile and the highway system, bringing it mainstream to the common factory worker and farmer. Old habits die hard and this is a big land that was designed with the automobile in mind. For the heck of it, I found that Poland, your home country, is about the size of just our Mid-Atlantic region. It would take 31 of your home country's combined to make up the USA. Quite the accomplishment here, to be united under one language!

Your question, a great one, has alot of answers as to why it's taking the ebikes a bit to catch on. I'd like to believe my long and winding post gave some clues as to why they haven't. But I believe they will. Then again, there is a spirit within us Americans that likes independence, of not being told what to do by some central power, say, as in Brussels and the EU. So, for every ebiker, there will be 50 who like their Dodge Challenger Hellcat with 770 horsepower, or the guy or gal who loves their Jeep Rubicon 4x4 or Chevrolet ZR2 pickup; moving in and out between the folks who swear by their Teslas or Chevy Bolts or Harley Davidson motorcycles. A big land with a lot of people.

Haibike is to blame for not tapping into that market; not the US ebike buyer! :)