I just sent this message to Biktrix regarding the Unprogrammable Canbus Ultra motor

Ridetoglide

Member
Region
USA
Hey Guys, how is it going up north?

I was just contacting you to find out if you have any updates regarding Bafang releasing updated firmware versions for the Canbus Ultra Motor.

If not, would it be possible for Biktrix to contact Bafang to see if they will provide any fireware updates for the Ultra motors with the new Canbus protocol. They may listen and try to help if the dealers and bike companies get involved and start requesting updates. I've read that Bafang does not like to deal with end users very much.

It is well known in the ebike community that the stock Bafang Ultra motor programming is rough at best but was able to be programmed smooth by the end user. Now with Canbus I have a rough performing ultra motor and no way to make it smoother.

I purchased my Juggernaut ultra Beast with the intention to program it only to find out that it is now unprogrammable. There are a few settings / performance characteristics I am not happy with and would like to have changed to make the bike operate more smoothly.

Right now there is a 250 to 500ms delay before the motor cuts out that I would like to have eliminated by changing "Time of Stop" to 0ms. I would like to throttle changed to "by displays command" so max throttle will be limited to the current assist level. During technical offroad riding the throttle is very difficult to use, it is very easy to input too much throttle lunging the bike forward. I would also like the "Limit Current %" settings changed to 0,10,20,30,40,50,60,70,85 and 100% respectively for assist 0 - 9.

From what I understand I would need the Bafang BESST programing tool which I would be ok with purchasing to perform the updates. Luna Cycles sells the BESST tool that comes with 3 firmware options for the M600 motor, perhaps Biktrix can develop something like that for their M620s as well.

Ultimately if I am unable to get these performance issues resolved I will look to purchase a Uart Ultra motor ( if one is still available ) to replace the canbus version I currently have but I would rather not do that due to cost and loss of warranty. I am hoping some sort of updating procedure will be developed between bafang, dealers and bike owners.

I understand you guys are in the middle, it is not Biktrix's fault that bafang did this but we bike owners need your help getting this unprogammable issue resolved. Thanks again for your assistance.
 

arcom

Active Member
My wife and I are of opposite opinions in this matter. We both agree with you completely.;);)
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear you got a CANBUS motor that can't easily be programmed. A few comments:

1) Biktrix users have indicated their Ultras were more refined due to Bitrix custom tuning. Some of us were trying to collaborate on tuning paameters but Roshan wasn't very helpful, other than mentioning something about "hex codes" which implied the Biktrix tuning was firmware based as opposed to just adjusting the parameters via programming software.


Not sure if that was just BS on Roshan's part or if they actually developed custom firmware. If the latter I'd think they might be able to provide it to users if they haven't already flashed it to CANBUS motors they are shipping out. If they didn't do anything to these motors I think you'd need to send your motor in to get the firmware upgraded unless Biktrix sells the BESST tool which runs about $100 and requires a dealer login to flash new firmware.

2) Regardless, I am skeptical you'll be able to tune the stock Ultra to your satisfaction. Maybe if you've never ridden a decent torque sensing mid drive and don't know what you're missing. Keep in mind the low sampling frequency of the stock controller is the achilles heel of the Ultra. No matter how smoothy you can tune it, you can't get around that. If you have the money to upgrade to the Archon X1 from Watt Wagons I don't think you'll regret it. After upgrading my Ultra is as refined as my Yamaha mid-drive, actually better. You can read more about the issues with the stock controller and the benefits of upgrading here, although I'm not sure if they support CANBUS upgrades just yet.

 

Ridetoglide

Member
Region
USA
Sorry to hear you got a CANBUS motor that can't easily be programmed. A few comments:

1) Biktrix users have indicated their Ultras were more refined due to Bitrix custom tuning. Some of us were trying to collaborate on tuning paameters but Roshan wasn't very helpful, other than mentioning something about "hex codes" which implied the Biktrix tuning was firmware based as opposed to just adjusting the parameters via programming software.


Not sure if that was just BS on Roshan's part or if they actually developed custom firmware. If the latter I'd think they might be able to provide it to users if they haven't already flashed it to CANBUS motors they are shipping out. If they didn't do anything to these motors I think you'd need to send your motor in to get the firmware upgraded unless Biktrix sells the BESST tool which runs about $100 and requires a dealer login to flash new firmware.

2) Regardless, I am skeptical you'll be able to tune the stock Ultra to your satisfaction. Maybe if you've never ridden a decent torque sensing mid drive and don't know what you're missing. Keep in mind the low sampling frequency of the stock controller is the achilles heel of the Ultra. No matter how smoothy you can tune it, you can't get around that. If you have the money to upgrade to the Archon X1 from Watt Wagons I don't think you'll regret it. After upgrading my Ultra is as refined as my Yamaha mid-drive, actually better. You can read more about the issues with the stock controller and the benefits of upgrading here, although I'm not sure if they support CANBUS upgrades just yet.

That seems like a feasible solution.... i am going to wait 6 months to see how if Biktrix is able to get any updates authorized from Bafang. If not i will look to upgrading the controller.
 

Haystacks

Well-Known Member
All tuning is firmware based; when you 'read' you are reading the firmware, when you 'write' you are writing the firmware. And Roshan is correct, it is about decoding the hexadecimal values from a canbus reader and creating a UI to read and write these values. It has been done already, but you will have to pay, the days of freeware are done. There are at least 2 'boutique' builders who have custom UI in development (one deployed) around canbus, do you think they will or should give it to you for free?

Has OP tried bafang go app?
 

Ridetoglide

Member
Region
USA
All tuning is firmware based; when you 'read' you are reading the firmware, when you 'write' you are writing the firmware. And Roshan is correct, it is about decoding the hexadecimal values from a canbus reader and creating a UI to read and write these values. It has been done already, but you will have to pay, the days of freeware are done. There are at least 2 'boutique' builders who have custom UI in development (one deployed) around canbus, do you think they will or should give it to you for free?

Has OP tried bafang go app?
I dont mind paying. What is spending a few hundred dollars for the bike to run well when the cost of the bike is Thousands of dollars. Besides... Spending a few $100 is cheaper than spending $1000 for a Uart motor replacement
 

Ridetoglide

Member
Region
USA
All tuning is firmware based; when you 'read' you are reading the firmware, when you 'write' you are writing the firmware. And Roshan is correct, it is about decoding the hexadecimal values from a canbus reader and creating a UI to read and write these values. It has been done already, but you will have to pay, the days of freeware are done. There are at least 2 'boutique' builders who have custom UI in development (one deployed) around canbus, do you think they will or should give it to you for free?

Has OP tried bafang go app?
Negative... What is the Bafang Go App?
 

Haystacks

Well-Known Member
Bafangs very own app, been out a while, you need CANBUS and a bluetooth display, in the settings you will find an area for voltage, current etc. i don't know how deep it goes, you would be one of the first to use it...
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I understand you guys are in the middle, it is not Biktrix's fault that bafang did this but we bike owners need your help getting this unprogammable issue resolved. Thanks again for your assistance.
Your a blip on their screen. Work out a solution. You’re tilting windmills.
 

Ridetoglide

Member
Region
USA
Your a blip on their screen. Work out a solution. You’re tilting windmills.
The only solution i have is to buy a Uart motor and everything that goes with it a replace all the canbus components. And honestly if no one tries to tilt windmills nothing will get accomplished
 

roshan

Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear you got a CANBUS motor that can't easily be programmed. A few comments:

1) Biktrix users have indicated their Ultras were more refined due to Bitrix custom tuning. Some of us were trying to collaborate on tuning paameters but Roshan wasn't very helpful, other than mentioning something about "hex codes" which implied the Biktrix tuning was firmware based as opposed to just adjusting the parameters via programming software.


Not sure if that was just BS on Roshan's part or if they actually developed custom firmware. If the latter I'd think they might be able to provide it to users if they haven't already flashed it to CANBUS motors they are shipping out. If they didn't do anything to these motors I think you'd need to send your motor in to get the firmware upgraded unless Biktrix sells the BESST tool which runs about $100 and requires a dealer login to flash new firmware.

2) Regardless, I am skeptical you'll be able to tune the stock Ultra to your satisfaction. Maybe if you've never ridden a decent torque sensing mid drive and don't know what you're missing. Keep in mind the low sampling frequency of the stock controller is the achilles heel of the Ultra. No matter how smoothy you can tune it, you can't get around that. If you have the money to upgrade to the Archon X1 from Watt Wagons I don't think you'll regret it. After upgrading my Ultra is as refined as my Yamaha mid-drive, actually better. You can read more about the issues with the stock controller and the benefits of upgrading here, although I'm not sure if they support CANBUS upgrades just yet.

Unfortunately, all UART-based hex don't work on Canbus unless you replace the controller, but the motors are slightly different so the controllers don't appear to be compatible.
 

Ridetoglide

Member
Region
USA
Unfortunately, all UART-based hex don't work on Canbus unless you replace the controller, but the motors are slightly different so the controllers don't appear to be compatible.
Hi Roshan... Does Biktrix have any influence or input on how the current Canbus Ultras installed on Biktrix's bike are being programmed from the Bafang factory ( like custom Biktrix requested tuning )? or do the new canbus Ultra's installed on new Biktrix bikes come with the "one size fits all" stock Bafang tuning?
 

roshan

Well-Known Member
Hi Roshan... Does Biktrix have any influence or input on how the current Canbus Ultras installed on Biktrix's bike are being programmed from the Bafang factory ( like custom Biktrix requested tuning )? or do the new canbus Ultra's installed on new Biktrix bikes come with the "one size fits all" stock Bafang tuning?
It's the stock Bafang firmware on these canbus for now. We are working with them to make some of those changes.
 

RicoRyder

New Member
Region
USA
It's the stock Bafang firmware on these canbus for now. We are working with them to make some of those changes.
I heard that Bafang was going to release software so dealers can reset firmware so that the MD 750 can at least go 28 mph like a class 3 ebike? Any truth to that? The folks with the new Can Bus Ultra motors would greatly appreciate any updates. Thanks!!