Input for long range commuter build?

4speed

Member
Region
Europe
Nice! What kit are you going with?
From my present design choices I am looking for a kit with a 28" rear wheel motor, somewhere around 750 W and as weatherproof as I can get it, from any of the major brands. Preferably a direct drive motor, otherwise a geared one but I am still not convinced about gears for 25-28 mph continously. Since I am hoping to be able to locate a kit from within the EU, options seem somewhat limited compared to the plethora of Aliexpress or Amazon ads. I could go with any of the latter but customs, taxes and shipping delay are discouraging. Also I imagine any guarantee issue to potentially take ages.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
From my present design choices I am looking for a kit with a 28" rear wheel motor, somewhere around 750 W and as weatherproof as I can get it, from any of the major brands. Preferably a direct drive motor, otherwise a geared one but I am still not convinced about gears for 25-28 mph continously. Since I am hoping to be able to locate a kit from within the EU, options seem somewhat limited compared to the plethora of Aliexpress or Amazon ads. I could go with any of the latter but customs, taxes and shipping delay are discouraging. Also I imagine any guarantee issue to potentially take ages.
Go to eBikes.ca. The motor simulator has more than a few motor options. Many available from sources other than them. You can set your desired expectations and include a number of battery choices to experiment with. Some better quality direct drives are well suited to staying dry. See their YouTube vids for additional details on water intrusion when setting up kit wiring.
 

4speed

Member
Region
Europe
Go to eBikes.ca. The motor simulator has more than a few motor options. Many available from sources other than them. You can set your desired expectations and include a number of battery choices to experiment with. Some better quality direct drives are well suited to staying dry. See their YouTube vids for additional details on water intrusion when setting up kit wiring.
Yes, I have used that simulator and also the trip simulator to verify performance against my needs. Several motors meet them, but I find it a challenge locating European sellers. Buying a kit from Grin or eBikeling overseas is an option but not top of my list because of added customs, taxes and shipping. (Also, eBikeling motors do not seem to appear in Grin simulators, not surprisingly.)
 

RiskyRob

New Member
Region
USA
I have not yet found a complete ebike that meets my wishes, and those that come anywhere close start around $5000. There is a reason this thread is in the DIY and kits section. ;)
I agree. I'm building a budget ebike that might cost $500.
 

4speed

Member
Region
Europe
So, motor torque...
As finding a single supplier for the conversion kit I [think that I] want - rear wheel direct drive 48V 750-1000W - is less straight forward than I thought it would be, I am right now looking at Ebikeling. Their 1200 W kit is appealing but the motor is speced only 30 Nm - which seems low even compared to other DD hub motors. I will not climb hills though or actually go offroad at all with this bike, intended use is strictly commuting on fairly flat paved ground with a bit of headwind sometimes and aiming for 25-28 mph. As far as I can figure out from [other motors on] the Grin simulator, that will take somewhere around 15-20 Nm. Will I be alright and happy with 30 Nm? :)

(Please leave any suggestions for mid drive out at this point. ;) )
 
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indianajo

Well-Known Member
At 110 kg without groceries, a 1000 W direct drive hub motor would not push me across a 6 lane highway before the light turned yellow. If there was a car or two in front of me I would see the red light. This is with throttle max and me pedaling as hard as I could go. A 1000 w mac12t geared hub motor accelerated nicely. You wouldn't like the mac12t it only goes 37 kph on 48 v battery.
 

mclewis1

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Fredericton, NB
I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised acceleration wise with my Shengyi hub motor (STD wind/8T). It's certainly not neck snapping, it's only rated at 500w but with a full twist of the throttle I'm putting 1000+ watts through it (BaseRunner controller and 52v battery) and with a little help from me everything seems to happen right now. My urban setup has 27.5" wheels, me + the bike are 120kgs. Looking at the motor simulator, at 39kph the little motor is still delivering 30nm of torque, and in real life seems to top out at just over 45kph.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Bottom line is the more torque the better and the reason is acceleration from a dead stop. 30 Nm is not much. But for your budget... its not unreasonable. Alternatively you are talking about buying a motor and building a wheel for it rather than a kit. I can come up with all sorts of ways to beat the performance you are describing but they all require a bigger shovel to feed money into the hopper.

That frame triangle looks awfully big. You can fit a big battery in there.
 

4speed

Member
Region
Europe
Speed bump.
Just found out that Ebikeling rear wheels are only available for freewheel, not cassette. The dedicated bike, because of Murphy, has 9-speed cassette. I am told that 9-speed freewheels are generally sketchy in terms of material and wear - so that put me off getting one of those. And I am not about to switch the whole system to 7- or 8-speed freewheel. So...

...if I want a kit with a branded rear wheel motor to my wishes, it seems like Grin is one of few that supply it. And that, considering all extra costs, is a bit over the top for me. Or are there other options?

I can go with a front wheel instead if necessary, but then Ebikeling has no suitable alternative right now, leaving just a vast number of no-name Aliexpress stuff.

I may have to reconsider that mid drive decision, as wrong as it feels for this use.

As for the torque, swift acceleration and stop-and-go really is of little use for me. I start pedaling when I leave my house and stop 30 km down the road. I just want to be able to keep the speed up.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
You can get Bafang rear motors with cassettes. Geared hubs. You would think threaded freewheels are found in the primordial jungle lying near a dead triceratops being eaten by a T-Rex. Nope Chinese ebike motors resurrected them in a big way and only a very few motors buck this trend.

Bear in mind hub motors are single speed since they power the bike thru the axle. So a crap drivetrain is acceptable to such a scheme since it receives a fraction of the torque that an analog drivetrain does.

I would not buy from these guys given their feedback rating, but as you can see they are selling a Bafang geared hub kit with a cassette motor. So the kits are out there...

 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
well I'll be darned. Wendy Xie's web site sells a cassette version of a DD kit. 1500w motor. 35Nm. Cassette drive. Check the dropout width. For that matter if your donor uses thru axle thats another dealbreaker...

45a controller so yee haw.

 

mclewis1

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Fredericton, NB
...
As for the torque, swift acceleration and stop-and-go really is of little use for me. I start pedaling when I leave my house and stop 30 km down the road. I just want to be able to keep the speed up.
The formula for that is pretty simple ...

Standard wind 6T geared hub motor, 52v, larger diameter wheels (650 or 700c) and bike gearing that will let you keep the cadence in a reasonable range (so something in the 50/52 x 11-18 range at the high end).
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
45a controller so yee haw
A note on that 45a controller. This is a KT controller with a top line LCD8H display so you will be able to use the C5 setting (you'll find it easy enough) to bump the max amps way down if you like. thats going to increase your range. A setup like this will allow you to do quite a bit of tailoring that you can't expect to do with many cheapo import kits.
 

4speed

Member
Region
Europe
I would not buy from these guys given their feedback rating, but as you can see they are selling a Bafang geared hub kit with a cassette motor. So the kits are out there...
Yes I am sure they are but just the combination that I am after seem hard to find. Rear DD cassette 750-1000 W, 700C, branded, preferably in EU but beggars can't be choosers. :rolleyes:
well I'll be darned. Wendy Xie's web site sells a cassette version of a DD kit. 1500w motor. 35Nm. Cassette drive. Check the dropout width. For that matter if your donor uses thru axle thats another dealbreaker...

45a controller so yee haw.

That one I will have to look at, thanks!
Regular dropouts, no thru axle. Haven't heard of "Pasion" though.
 

mclewis1

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Fredericton, NB
well I'll be darned. Wendy Xie's web site sells a cassette version of a DD kit. 1500w motor. 35Nm. Cassette drive. Check the dropout width. For that matter if your donor uses thru axle thats another dealbreaker...

45a controller so yee haw.
Man that's a serious setup, and nothing subtle about that 18 fet encyclopedia sized controller. :oops:
The phase wiring will probably look like something from a 220v dryer. Now where to connect the flux capacitor?
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
... nothing subtle about that 18 fet encyclopedia sized controller. :oops:
I was thinking exactly the same thing.

I know someone who used that exact controller for his G060 hub motor setup. It was years ago but he also has one of Wendy's 48v 30ah batteries (still available on that site) and that controller and he's never needed an upgrade in the years I have known him.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Regular dropouts, no thru axle. Haven't heard of "Pasion" though.
Pasion Ebike is run by a lady named Wendy Xie. She's pretty well known in some ebike circles as a community member early on - nowadays mostly a vendor. Her company is the USA supplier of parts for at least a couple of popular ebike companies most USA riders have at least heard of. In the early years of the Sondors ebikes, she was the one who figured out how to give owners amp'd up parts (controllers, displays) that let owners turn underpowered bikes into hot rods.

I would classify her as one of the good guys. She's one of the few vendors I would buy a battery from (if I had to buy from China), although not my first choice. Look at her 30ah pack and note the size of it vs. the size of your triangle. The battery and wheel kit could turn into a 1-stop solution for you. Battery plus kit would be US$1300. Select UK shipping on the lower left hand corner of any page on the site. Its still in USD though on purpose according to the dropdown that denotes USD for everything.

She uses quality parts. That LCD8H is probably the best KT display available. And notice how the bigger wheels use MTX39 rims. I use those on my cargo bikes, and would have used them on the compact emtb I am building if I could have just gotten hold of a set (I used DT Swiss FR560's instead). MTX39's run at least $65 each retail. So she's using good parts in those kits.

edit: I have bought a bunch of stuff from her, albeit mostly throttles and sensors and displays. I did buy a G060 cassette motor from her a few years ago.
 
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