Is a class 3 ebike adjusted to go only 20 mph class 2?

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Last year Arizona passed a law that ebikes must be labeled by the Manufacturer as to what class they are. That seems a big step toward their being able to enforce laws. I'd hate to buy something I might not be able to use next year as they come online with this kind of legislation. Most trails here don't have any law enforcement presence. But the most important trails to me are in the city park right behind my house. There they have full time park rangers. The only time I've been asked what class my bike is was there. Just once, but it may become more of and issue with the labeling legislation. These are full time rangers and they could remember who you are. The park is why I got into ebikes in the first place. It would be a real bummer to be blackballed there. I know I should just bite the bullet and buy class 2. But there are mountains in that park. I could use the torque. I NEVER drive fast on park roads or by people.

Another joke...
Re: class label. 2 reasons. First, regarding the manf., who is manf. of a highly modified bike? The original mfg, or the builder/owner?
2nd, you can already purchase pretty official looking Class 1, 2 and 3 stickers for 5.00

I see this going in a completely different direction, with the complete elimination of the silly class 1, 2, and 3 distinctions. Check out the new law in Florida where exactly this has just been done....
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
Whereas that is true, if the class is allowing only 750W to go to the motor it may not be able to attain it's full torque rating, like for the Bafang Ultra.
Class regulates the power output, how much Watts does it take to generate 160Nm at such low RPM, there was another thread on this on EBR that explained it.

I don't see anything about classes regulating different power outputs, only speed & throttle. And, all classes have the same 750 watt limit.

1) A “class 1 electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

2) A “class 2
electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

3) A “class 3
electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and is equipped with a speedometer.

For all classes, the maximum power output is 750 watts (1 h.p.), and manufacturers and distributors of electric bicycles would be required to apply aclass identification label to each electric bicycle.
 
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J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
And yet the end user can change much of what comes from the factory so the sticker could say class 1, but we add the optional throttle, and put up the maximum speed to 33 mph in the password protected controller and viola I have what a class 4 Ebike ;) with class 1 sticker.
The manufacturer is actually breaking the law. It is a class 4. Enforcement has started and someone will crash and get hurt or die, then the lawsuits will start. We've seen this story many times.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
Another joke...
Re: class label. 2 reasons. First, regarding the manf., who is manf. of a highly modified bike? The original mfg, or the builder/owner?
2nd, you can already purchase pretty official looking Class 1, 2 and 3 stickers for 5.00

I see this going in a completely different direction, with the complete elimination of the silly class 1, 2, and 3 distinctions. Check out the new law in Florida where exactly this has just been done....

I still see class 1-3 defined in Florida SB 1148, which is what got passed?

,
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
The manufacturer is actually breaking the law. It is a class 4. Enforcement has started and someone will crash and get hurt or die, then the lawsuits will start. We've seen this story many times.
Are they ?

It comes from the factory with no throttle installed, but they supply one just in case you want it, but you have to put it on yourself.
It comes password protected locked in at 20 mph, if you want it higher, they don't tell you the password...but some research on the internet finds you the answer and you can unlock the speed.
It has a Class 1 sticker on it.
They are selling in full compliance with the law.
And yet the consumer can transform his Ebike beyond what it came out of the factory and stickered as, and really how would the police ever know.

Even a police officer that knows about Ebikes could ask the bike owner to look at his settings on his display and they could claim they don't know the password to get in to look at it.
Then again he could still just lift the rear wheel and hit the throttle and see if it goes over 20 mph, that's what I would do if I was a cop checking on a Ebike rider who was riding recklessly.
But if they don't have a throttle, short of actually riding it to test it, there would be know real way to know. How many police are going to go to those lengths to issue a ticket violation, to people who might not even have a drivers licence, they know it's a total waste of time.
 
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AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I still see class 1-3 defined in Florida SB 1148, which is what got passed?

,

I forget the specifics Harry, but it was a house bill that went into effect in June. Bottom line, e-bikes are legal anywhere a bicycle is.

Edit: Just briefly read through your link. It appears they did not eliminate the 3 classes. It appears to me what they did eliminate is the distinction between them. They are now treated the same.
 
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J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Are they ?

It comes from the factory with no throttle installed, but they supply one just in case you want it, but you have to put it on yourself.
It comes password protected locked in at 20 mph, if you want it higher, they don't tell you the password...but some research on the internet finds you the answer and you can unlock the speed.
It has a Class 1 sticker on it.
They are selling in full compliance with the law.
And yet the consumer can transform his Ebike beyond what it came out of the factory and stickered as, and really how would the police ever know.
Even a police officer that knows about Ebikes could ask the bike owner look at his settings on his display and they could claim they don't know the password to get in to look at it.
Then again he could lift the rear wheel and hit the throttle and see if it goes over 20 mph.
The bikes aren't supposed to be user adjustable. Manufactures of all sorts of products have been sued when they haven't taken all reasonable steps to prevent accidents. If someone crashes and dies, the bike would be taken away by police. "They" (police, attorneys) will find out. Same is true for a rider that hurts a child or kills a dog. They can and will find out.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I really don't care what people ride. I do care how these issues impact access for ebikes.

Enjoy the ride.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
The Nm rating on the class 3 bikes I'm looking at are higher than on class 2 bikes.
Yep. So is the price. And all other components are hopefully upgraded too for the big motor. But you can get torque without speed.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
All the fuss about bicycle classes and someone getting hurt, yet there are street legal motorcycles that can go over 200 mph as sold.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
Another joke...
Re: class label. 2 reasons. First, regarding the manf., who is manf. of a highly modified bike? The original mfg, or the builder/owner?
2nd, you can already purchase pretty official looking Class 1, 2 and 3 stickers for 5.00

I see this going in a completely different direction, with the complete elimination of the silly class 1, 2, and 3 distinctions. Check out the new law in Florida where exactly this has just been done....
I agree with elimanation too... but at my age and the speed of legeslation I may never see it.
 

BET

Active Member
I fight hills, not headwinds here in Pa. So I can't speak from experience, but bycycle magazines run articles and charts on wind resistance all the time, it seems. That's what the whole bent over aero position is all about, after all.

And here on EBR, Stefan Mikes rides long flat rides at speeds over 20mph, has commented on the effect of wind more than once.
I don't know about on an e bike but on a non e bike when I ride near the beach it was very noticeable. With a tail wind I rode far and it seemed easy. On the way back it was tough even though it was flat. I bet on my e bike it would be a lot easier.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
I don't know about on an e bike but on a non e bike when I ride near the beach it was very noticeable. With a tail wind I rode far and it seemed easy. On the way back it was tough even though it was flat. I bet on my e bike it would be a lot easier.
Yeah, on my standard bike, even a light breeze is noticeable and affects my speed, both a headwind and tailwind, and even a side wind to some degree, especially if it's a stronger wind. Strong headwinds really take the fun out of it, even more so combined with riding up hill. So that's another thing I look forward to with e-bikes - neutralizing those winds in addition to the hills.
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
The bikes aren't supposed to be user adjustable. Manufactures of all sorts of products have been sued when they haven't taken all reasonable steps to prevent accidents. If someone crashes and dies, the bike would be taken away by police. "They" (police, attorneys) will find out. Same is true for a rider that hurts a child or kills a dog. They can and will find out.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I really don't care what people ride. I do care how these issues impact access for ebikes.

Enjoy the ride.
I hear you, it's about responsible riding whatever class you are riding, I ride a class 2 locked to 20 mph, I don't want to go faster anyways, I wipe out at that speed will hurt enough.
 

Lightning P38

Active Member
Yeah, on my standard bike, even a light breeze is noticeable and affects my speed, both a headwind and tailwind, and even a side wind to some degree, especially if it's a stronger wind. Strong headwinds really take the fun out of it, even more so combined with riding up hill. So that's another thing I look forward to with e-bikes - neutralizing those winds in addition to the hills.

Before I added the e-assist, I had this full fairing on my recumbent...it was great in headwinds...gave me a big advantage over other bikes. Was good in cross winds too. I no longer use the fairing, as it does not help climbing the low mountains here In Scranton, and I don’t need more speed going down the mountains. But the e-assist sure does help with climbing. Road 34 miles today with 2,800 ft of climbing. Longest and hardest ride this year with the e-assist.


E469FAB8-F7D5-4288-BDCF-B5E7764B5885.jpeg
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
Before I added the e-assist, I had this full fairing on my recumbent...it was great in headwinds...gave me a big advantage over other bikes. Was good in cross winds too. I no longer use the fairing, as it does not help climbing the low mountains here In Scranton, and I don’t need more speed going down the mountains. But the e-assist sure does help with climbing. Road 34 miles today with 2,800 ft of climbing. Longest and hardest ride this year with the e-assist.


View attachment 60096
That looks warm ... what about sunny day rides? Not that we get a lot of sunny days ... and does the boost cancel out the headwinds as well as the fairing? What about a smaller front only faring? Details please.
 

mjorg

Member
Torque doesn't have anything to do with the class.
Another joke...
Re: class label. 2 reasons. First, regarding the manf., who is manf. of a highly modified bike? The original mfg, or the builder/owner?
2nd, you can already purchase pretty official looking Class 1, 2 and 3 stickers for 5.00

I see this going in a completely different direction, with the complete elimination of the silly class 1, 2, and 3 distinctions. Check out the new law in Florida where exactly this has just been done....

I think the worst case scenario will be having to buy another computer that is sealed by the manufacturer. But don't you know they'll up the price on them.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
The manufacturer is actually breaking the law. It is a class 4. Enforcement has started and someone will crash and get hurt or die, then the lawsuits will start. We've seen this story many times.
Your insurance company is much more likely to uncover an illegal bike because that is a reason to not pay claims. It's an illegal bike, no soup for you.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
I've found a few 750 class 3 bikes with more power than Rad's 750 (100 Nm vs 70) that are significantly less money. ... . Motor ratings also vary. Some 750's are more capable than others.
Saying "motor ratings vary" is quite an understatement. And some 750s are more capable than others is also an understatement. Some 250s are more capable than some 500s for sure. A rear hub 250 is about usless for me, but some middrive 250s actually peak over 750 watts. 🤪 Yeah. It all makes sense to someone.
 

Lightning P38

Active Member
That looks warm ... what about sunny day rides? Not that we get a lot of sunny days ... and does the boost cancel out the headwinds as well as the fairing? What about a smaller front only faring? Details please.

In the summer I will unzip one or both sides, roll up the lycra towards the front fairing and clamp it in place with a plastic clip...so it is like a convertible top you roll back. Also, the front center zipper can be unzipped to allow airflow through and control the temperature.

Sometimes I just mount the front fiberglass fairing and ride it that way...it is not nearly as fast that way. I don’t find a small front fairing helps much, as I did test ride one once.

The boost does cancel out a headwind...using pas 3 I can go into a wind at about 15 mph. The recumbent position is also better in the wind than an upright bike.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
In the summer I will unzip one or both sides, roll up the lycra towards the front fairing and clamp it in place with a plastic clip...so it is like a convertible top you roll back. Also, the front center zipper can be unzipped to allow airflow through and control the temperature.

Sometimes I just mount the front fiberglass fairing and ride it that way...it is not nearly as fast that way. I don’t find a small front fairing helps much, as I did test ride one once.

The boost does cancel out a headwind...using pas 3 I can go into a wind at about 15 mph. The recumbent position is also better in the wind than an upright bike.
My 80 plus yo neighbors have a recumbent trike. No faring, no electricty, but it really goes ... until the first hill.