Is a class 3 ebike adjusted to go only 20 mph class 2?

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I think the worst case scenario will be having to buy another computer that is sealed by the manufacturer. But don't you know they'll up the price on them.

Completely opposite thought here. I believe that those that understand what's going on in those computers should be able to program them to their hearts content. Much like you can their aftermarket counterparts.

What's going on in there is way more than just a speed limit.

You can tune how the motor responds to your commands - as in custom tuning your PAS levels to suit yourself. That ability itself would be huge! How many times do we read where a rider complains about unsuitable PAS levels? You can limit the amount of power available to the motor, for economy reasons, and maybe with the needs of a minor in mind.

You mentioned wanting more power to enable hill climbing, but were not interested in more speed. The ability to program the controller would be a good place to start. As would a controller that was able to pass power from the battery to the motor in an effective manner, rather than provide a bottleneck/restriction.

Fine, have a default set of parameters from the OEM designed to allow the bike to perform as they think it should, and a way to return to those if/when a "tuner" screws up. But leave the controller unlocked, to encourage further development and allow room for customization by the user.
 

Lightning P38

Active Member
My 80 plus yo neighbors have a recumbent trike. No faring, no electricty, but it really goes ... until the first hill.

In 10 years I will be on a trike, and it will have e-assist, for sure. The hills here are small mountains....800 ft up,up, and up. Plus with the rollers, you go back down, then up, repeat, repeat. In the valley, the rail trail has no more than a 2% grade. But to get to the Scranton trail, I have a couple of major climbs, and on some bumpy roads. I just got a full suspension Vision that will get the electric kit this fall. That will be my new ride for a while.
EED172D0-C382-40E2-8F4B-2B3B3DBF0E44.jpeg
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
Completely opposite thought here. I believe that those that understand what's going on in those computers should be able to program them to their hearts content. Much like you can their aftermarket counterparts.

What's going on in there is way more than just a speed limit.

You can tune how the motor responds to your commands - as in custom tuning your PAS levels to suit yourself. That ability itself would be huge! How many times do we read where a rider complains about unsuitable PAS levels? You can limit the amount of power available to the motor, for economy reasons, and maybe with the needs of a minor in mind.

You mentioned wanting more power to enable hill climbing, but were not interested in more speed. The ability to program the controller would be a good place to start. As would a controller that was able to pass power from the battery to the motor in an effective manner, rather than provide a bottleneck/restriction.

Fine, have a default set of parameters from the OEM designed to allow the bike to perform as they think it should, and a way to return to those if/when a "tuner" screws up. But leave the controller unlocked, to encourage further development and allow room for customization by the user.
That is the approach I expect, from the big three, at least. Something like mission control with a few more levels will do.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
In 10 years I will be on a trike, and it will have e-assist, for sure. The hills here are small mountains....800 ft up,up, and up. Plus with the rollers, you go back down, then up, repeat, repeat. In the valley, the rail trail has no more than a 2% grade. But to get to the Scranton trail, I have a couple of major climbs, and on some bumpy roads. I just got a full suspension Vision that will get the electric kit this fall. That will be my new ride for a while.
I've never ridden a recumbent. In fact, I've only seen a recumbent one time riding around, and that was probably 10 years ago. I think it would be fun to try, even more so with electrical assist.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
I haven't ridden my neighbors recumbent since it's also a tandem trike, but the are a few in my county I see. Like ebikes they are fast, and very expensive.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
In 10 years I will be on a trike, and it will have e-assist, for sure. The hills here are small mountains....800 ft up,up, and up. Plus with the rollers, you go back down, then up, repeat, repeat. In the valley, the rail trail has no more than a 2% grade. But to get to the Scranton trail, I have a couple of major climbs, and on some bumpy roads. I just got a full suspension Vision that will get the electric kit this fall. That will be my new ride for a while.View attachment 60130
Very cool ride.
 

Lightning P38

Active Member
I've never ridden a recumbent. In fact, I've only seen a recumbent one time riding around, and that was probably 10 years ago. I think it would be fun to try, even more so with electrical assist.

The recumbent seat is so comfortable...at the beginning of the season I can go on my first ride for 20 miles and not have a sore butt. My hands get numb after 15 miles on an upright, no more of that.

You can really rest while coasting on a long ride, as you don’t have to hold yourself up with your arms and shoulders.
And the recumbent is more aero, as you sit lower, your legs are out in front of you, like a divers going into water, and your body is leaned back.
80% of your energy on a bike is spent pushing the wind, on level ground.

You are unable to take the weight off your seat when you hit a bump, so the seat fabric has to give some to improve the ride.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
The recumbent seat is so comfortable...at the beginning of the season I can go on my first ride for 20 miles and not have a sore butt. My hands get numb after 15 miles on an upright, no more of that.

You can really rest while coasting on a long ride, as you don’t have to hold yourself up with your arms and shoulders.
And the recumbent is more aero, as you sit lower, your legs are out in front of you, like a divers going into water, and your body is leaned back.
80% of your energy on a bike is spent pushing the wind, on level ground.

You are unable to take the weight off your seat when you hit a bump, so the seat fabric has to give some to improve the ride.
Full suspension or just forks?
 

Lightning P38

Active Member
Full suspension or just forks?

My P38 can have either a suspension fork, or fixed....I have both forks. Right now I have the suspension fork, but it is not nearly as good as the Ballistic fork on my Vision. The fixed fork will take a wider tire.

My Vision has full suspension, and will be my main bike with e-assist. It really smoothes out the bumps, which get magnified at the higher e-assist speeds.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
My P38 can have either a suspension fork, or fixed....I have both forks. Right now I have the suspension fork, but it is not nearly as good as the Ballistic fork on my Vision. The fixed fork will take a wider tire.

My Vision has full suspension, and will be my main bike with e-assist. It really smoothes out the bumps, which get magnified at the higher e-assist speeds.
Sweet
 

Anna

Well-Known Member
Another joke...
Re: class label. 2 reasons. First, regarding the manf., who is manf. of a highly modified bike? The original mfg, or the builder/owner?
2nd, you can already purchase pretty official looking Class 1, 2 and 3 stickers for 5.00

I see this going in a completely different direction, with the complete elimination of the silly class 1, 2, and 3 distinctions. Check out the new law in Florida where exactly this has just been done....
I would not rush out and buy a class 2 bike. On trails, we are more likely to earn the favor of the USFS if the bike is capped at 20mph without a throttle. (Class 1) For now, they seem to lump all ebikes into the motorized vehicle category. I do not desire to ride dirt roads or trails with motorcycles. Seems like we are lacking good representation on the matter. Very frustrating indeed! 🚴‍♀️
 

Lightning P38

Active Member
I see so many good deals on class 3 ebikes. It seems that you pay the same amount of money to get class 2 as you do class 3. But you get more power going class 3 and you could use it in the country with only a a computer adjustment. So can you adjust a class 3 bike down to class 2 specs and not get a ticket for being on a hike and bike trail. I've been looking for and answer to this everywhere and I've found nothing. I'm considering my next bike and I'd like the power. But I live in Phoenix, and mostly ride park trails. I hate to pay the same for class 2 and get less...

Buy a class 3....there are no class rating police for ebikes. Just don’t run down any pedestrians!
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
How silly of us to be arguing about a quarter or half horsepower on a bike when Ford is bringing out their better idea of an electric vehicle:
 

Lightning P38

Active Member
I haven't ridden my neighbors recumbent since it's also a tandem trike, but the are a few in my county I see. Like ebikes they are fast, and very expensive.

New bents are expensive, so I got a used one.
I got the full suspension Vision for $450, plus $105 for shipping. It is in very good condition.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
New bents are expensive, so I got a used one.
I got the full suspension Vision for $450, plus $105 for shipping. It is in very good condition.
I think my neighbor had more than that in drivetrain work on the tandem, but new and customized I guess
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I would not rush out and buy a class 2 bike. On trails, we are more likely to earn the favor of the USFS if the bike is capped at 20mph without a throttle. (Class 1) For now, they seem to lump all ebikes into the motorized vehicle category. I do not desire to ride dirt roads or trails with motorcycles. Seems like we are lacking good representation on the matter. Very frustrating indeed! 🚴‍♀️

I would like to believe that the USFS is smart enough to realize MANY (most?) new e-bike riders are seniors, and as such maybe not as fit as younger riders. Without throttles (whether used or not), many may not be able to ride. Getting the bike moving from a stop, and maybe as an ace in the hole for making it back home after an injury (new or renewed), make the throttles a huge benefit.

I don't see throttles as responsible for tearing up trails, OR speeding. I really don't understand the hang up regarding them.

I do agree on the lack of representation and frustration levels.....
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
You know, I've never thought about a test drive of one of these bikes at a local dealer. I have a rear hub drive fixation. That's a really, really good idea. Thanks!
Hello @mjorg. Wondering if you got a chance to test out a middrive yet? How goes the hunting?