Is anyone trying to solve charging on the road?

MinnesotaMiles

New Member
I'm a life long cyclist who would like to use my e-bike to go farther and faster. For me THE biggest challenge is charging while on the road. Solutions include carrying multiple batteries and fast charging.

The first solution requires that people carry multiple heavy batteries, which eventually need time and location for charging.

The second solution, that of fast charging would be the most elegant solution, but is currently not available, that I'm aware.

Fast charging could be offered as an fee based service in any type of business that would support people lingering while their battery is charging, (ie coffee shop, bike shop, restaurant).

IMO the solution to this problem would not be expensive as BEV's are addressing it, and it would open up an entirely new vacation industry where people could tour as long as they wanted without having to worry about range. Think of the motorcycle touring industry, but where people actually get some exercise. Additionally, people of different athletic ability could actually travel together.
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
A lot of this depends, greatly, on how far and how fast you plan to go in a day, how many places on your route that might have an outlet, and the terrain and road conditions you are going to encounter. So it is impossible to generalize.

I usually shoot for an average speed of 12-14mph, and most of my miles or at pretty low levels of pedal assist. I also tend to ride on back roads with lots of elevation gain.

So for me three 500wh batteries do the job most days. I can charge two at a time on my bike. Typically the "spare" battery is only charged to 80 percent unless I know the next day is going to be heinous. So I can easily charge all three batteries overnight.

One observation I would make is your ability to charge batteries from other folks' outlets is inversely correlated to the size of the city. In any decent-sized city I wouldn't even bother trying. So my routes tend to avoid such places or at least skirt their edges. This can make touring/riding through more urbanized areas challenging.

In the rainy Pacific Northwest a lot of public parks and campgrounds have covered picnic shelters, usually these are lavishly equipped with electrical outlets. Most of the time (except for busy weekends) they are lightly used and a good place to take a lunch break and charge up. I also have had good luck at coin-op laundries and chain restaurants like Starbuck's (outside of larger towns and big cities, where it is again hopeless). Public libraries are also a good bet, but again, less so in a big city.
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
Some bike companies are. They carry two batteries on the frame. Riese & Muller let you have an in tube and an on tube.This can get you 1,000Whr. Should easily get you to 100 miles if you charge a little through the day. Now, just using the terms farther and faster makes it difficult to quantify if that helps.
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
With the Satiator set at 6.2amps earlier , As soon as I walked inside Starbucks I plugged it in the 605wh battery which had 40% Left , had a large hot tea , maybe 12-13minutes , max. 15min. Stayed there, Walked out , insert battery , turn on display , battery 71%.
Grin Satiator - is 325$ but is well worth it.
For long trips I Carry this and another spare.

For a Battery with min. 16amps it can charge at 8amps safely ! Mine has 12.6, max . Safe rate is 1x which is 6.2amps.

At 6-7amps charge rate is a totally stress free experience.
I had a Custom made Luna cycle 5Amps and believe it or not, 1.2amps does make a difference.

Once the charge reaches 85% all chargers will taper off to 4 amps then 2,1 ,0. Etc... only need to use it in between 15%-85%.
 

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
I have my bike set up to carry two spare batteries but usually carry just one. With good battery management, averaging 10 - 12 mph, I can easily get 50 miles on one charge. To go faster or traverse a very hilly route, I'll carry the third battery. Two batteries gives me a range of around 100 miles under average conditions, which, at my age, is the high end of my single day endurance limit. By planning my stops 100 miles apart, either at a hotel or campground with amenities, I have no need for interim charging. Carrying a third battery would extend the range to 150 miles which is near the limit of all but the fittest rider. Yes, batteries are heavy but the weight isn't really noticeable since the bike is aiding your pedaling effort.

An idea mentioned in this recent post suggests "seeding" batteries along your planned route:
https://electricbikereview.com/foru...l-this-past-summer.31086/page-2#post-237064As

As Mr. Coffee asks, how far and how fast do you really want to go? What is your single day endurance limit and where do you plan to spend the night? Once you know the answers to these questions, there may be an ebike out there that will meet your requirements.
 

Tars Tarkas

Active Member
What is meant by "fast charging" anyway? Bike batteries don't do as well with fast charging as they do with relatively slower charging. My Rad battery takes about 6 hours to charge on a 2 amp charger. I have a 5 amp charger which cuts the time down to about 2.4 hours, which is faster than I really like to charge. Still, that would be a long stop at a coffee shop. I'd rather carry a spare battery than sit waiting on my battery that long.

I'm sure faster charging is possible, but at what point do you risk blowing something up? I'm being fairly serious. And don't many batteries have limits on how fast they should be charged?

Aside from all that, what kind of (safe) fast(er) charging technology is available now?

If you could get a decent top-up charge in half an hour, for what, $2 or $3?, that might be nice. Otherwise, and really, even still for me, carrying a spare battery would probably be preferred.

TT
 
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dblhelix

Well-Known Member
At 6-7amps charge rate is a totally stress free experience.
In fact, Bosch offers a 240V/6A charger in Europe/Aus. I was told it was coming to the US by my dealer, but Bosch reversed its position on making it available in the US, citing insufficient sales (?) overseas. I was a bit puzzled as my impression is that it comes standard with bikes, but perhaps no. I’ve noticed that Giant offers a 6A charger with its bikes as well, although I don’t know which regions.
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
IT could still be used here , the european Bosch but with a 120/240v converter which is heavy to carry (2-4lb).

Is true , there are Very , very low sales here compared to Europe. PlAces like Belgium , Netherlands And many other west european countries have tens of thousands of ebikes.
10.000 speed pedelecs in Antwerp alone.
MAybe there are 1.000Bosch ebikes in the whole US. And Us is 1.000x times Bigger area ...

Giant only has 4amps chargers in Us for now.
 

dblhelix

Well-Known Member
Is true , there are Very , very low sales here compared to Europe. PlAces like Belgium , Netherlands And many other west european countries have tens of thousands of ebikes.
10.000 speed pedelecs in Antwerp alone.
MAybe there are 1.000Bosch ebikes in the whole US. And Us is 1.000x times Bigger area ...

Giant only has 4amps chargers in Us for now.
Actually, I was told that Bosch was disappointed with overseas sales of the 6A charger, but I may have misunderstood. Interesting about Giant. I definitely saw the 6A charger listed as standard with the bike on a Giant USA site earlier this year.
 

GypsyTreker

Active Member
With the Satiator set at 6.2amps earlier , As soon as I walked inside Starbucks I plugged it in the 605wh battery which had 40% Left , had a large hot tea , maybe 12-13minutes , max. 15min. Stayed there, Walked out , insert battery , turn on display , battery 71%.
Grin Satiator - is 325$ but is well worth it.
For long trips I Carry this and another spare.

For a Battery with min. 16amps it can charge at 8amps safely ! Mine has 12.6, max . Safe rate is 1x which is 6.2amps.

At 6-7amps charge rate is a totally stress free experience.
I had a Custom made Luna cycle 5Amps and believe it or not, 1.2amps does make a difference.

Once the charge reaches 85% all chargers will taper off to 4 amps then 2,1 ,0. Etc... only need to use it in between 15%-85%.
I would be nice if City's purchased these and made them available as stand alone stations along bike paths. I see eBike charging infastructure as something that will happen sooner rather than later once cities see the revenue older eBikers bring to the table. The Swamp Rabbit Trail in Greenville SC is already eyeing commerce along the trail.
 

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
It should be noted that most OEM e-bike chargers use a rate of around 4 amps depending on the battery configuration. Charging at 6 amps is certainly convenient but it can significantly shorten battery life if done on a regular basis.
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
It should be noted that most OEM e-bike chargers use a rate of around 4 amps depending on the battery configuration. Charging at 6 amps is certainly convenient but it can significantly shorten battery life if done on a regular basis.
Completely dependent on the BMS and cell rating. IME 5A rated BMS are most common. But I’m limited to experience with non OEM bike packs. old Luna, UPP, older EM3ev, and new BT EM3ev.
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
It should be noted that most OEM e-bike chargers use a rate of around 4 amps depending on the battery configuration. Charging at 6 amps is certainly convenient but it can significantly shorten battery life if done on a regular basis.
Totally uninformed clueless opinion.
They are 4amps b/c they are cheap to make.

Boomer , before you spread fear and viruses Please Do some Studying besides reading Ebr .

A12.6 battery charging at 6 amp is barely 0.5C . But that you have ZERO clue of what it scientifically means.

Most ebike batteries are At least 11amps, safe to charge at 6amps, the cheap ones maybe even at higher rates up to 1C which is 11amps , as the BMS won’t interfere.

That’s why Grey Ebike a 10k ebike has a 10amp fast charger.

Even Bosch has released 6amp fast chargers available for purchase. 200$ no less. Grin is only 325$ and can charge 36/48/52v and 50x more options + software updates and battery cell data.
 
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6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
Totally uninformed clueless opinion.
They are 4amps b/c they are cheap to make.

Boomer , before you spread fear and viruses Please Do some Studying besides reading Ebr .

A12.6 battery charging at 6 amp is barely 0.5C . But that you have ZERO clue of what it scientifically means.

Most ebike batteries are At least 11amps, safe to charge at 6amps, the cheap ones maybe even at higher rates up to 1C which is 11amps , as the BMS won’t interfere.

That’s why Grey Ebike a 10k ebike has a 10amp fast charger.

Even Bosch has released 6amp fast chargers available for purchase. 200$ no less. Grin is only 325$ and can charge 36/48/52v and 50x more options + software updates and battery cell data.
The idea of this forum is to share information. You are entitled to your opinion and I have mine. There is no reason to resort to name calling.

.5C is fine with proper thermal management. I think it is bad advice to advocate a charging rate above 6 amps when you have no idea what the charging environment of the battery will be. What is the ambient temperature? How thick is the battery case? How well is it insulated? How well does it dissipate heat? What type cells are used in the battery construction? Are the battery charging connectors rated for higher currents?

There are many types of BMS and cell configurations. Some batteries will tolerate high charging rates better than others. One size does not fit all.

If you or anyone else wishes to charge your batteries at high rates then go for it. I won't argue. It's your $$

My statement is based on information from the following sources:

tech support at Pedego recommends charging their 48v, 15ah batteries at no more than 5 amps. Their OEM chargers are rated at 4.

Ravi Kempaiah, one of our well known members, compiled this excellent post last year:


his article mentions charging at less than 8 amps, .5C max with an industry average of 2 - 4 amps.
 

Mass Deduction

Active Member
IT could still be used here , the european Bosch but with a 120/240v converter which is heavy to carry (2-4lb).

Is true , there are Very , very low sales here compared to Europe. PlAces like Belgium , Netherlands And many other west european countries have tens of thousands of ebikes.
10.000 speed pedelecs in Antwerp alone.
MAybe there are 1.000Bosch ebikes in the whole US. And Us is 1.000x times Bigger area ...

Giant only has 4amps chargers in Us for now.
Our single small bicycle shop (not even an e-bike specific shop) has sold 185 e-bikes in the last 12 months. Granted they weren't all Bosch-equipped bikes, but still, we're only a single bike shop out of thousands in North America. No way that there are only 1K Bosch e-bikes in the entire U.S.! :) Trek alone will have sold way more Bosch equipped bikes than that, and Trek's only one of many companies that sell Bosch bikes in the U.S.

That said, I think it's clearly true that European sales are better for Bosch. It's a bigger market for e-bikes in general, and they also have (what hockey fans would call) "home ice advantage" there.
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
mine. There is no reason to resort to name calling.
I apologize for that angry tone.
But all those companies mention 4amps for their own super safety reasons.

For a sub standard battery pack, one bought from aliexpress or just with dubious manufacturing no amount of slow charge is safe !

The Pedego would take 7.5amps safely w/o any issues.

In Europe Bosch already recommends 6amps for the 500wh pack ! That’s 48v/10.4amps. 6amps is above 0.5c and of course totally okay. Even 10amps would be fine, As long as not every single time. Is a name bRand quality cell and great well made pack.

Here is Lots of misinformation and fear. Again in order to make the sale.

2amps was the norm in 2015, now the norm is 4amps for newbies , 6-8amps for the connoisseurs with the Grin, Luna chargers....or 10-20amps for DIY proffesionals.

1-2years from now 6amps will be Considered normal charging rate.

The 15$ 2amps chargers were sold and are selling for 135$ here, 30$ 4amps chargers are selling for 150$ and soon you will have to buy the 6amp for 200$.

The Grin Satiator does 36/48/52 volts and any of 0-8amps With a TON of other features including adjusting the cable resistance . Oh wait that is to0 much for many EBR members ....

EDUCATION IS the key word.





It’s only 140-150$ b/c it has no features as the Satiator. And no, can’t buy it in Us b/c here is “safe” at 4amps😉.
Allthough you could buy it and use a transformer with it. Too heavy.




And don’t just read only from other posters and forums. Is good to open an actual book about this And other ebike technologies !

Ex- I am using an airgel custom made cover for my battery while you guys are still stuck with the vastly inferior neoprene 20th century technology for winter riding.
At -20C And with wind chill it can get -30C a neoprene cover is useless and The battery pack will be 45% efficient. Nobody tells you that b/c is all about sales....

Good luck and learn , b/c this is very advanced tech.
 

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Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, how many of the people posting to this thread have ridden long distances, day in and day out, where they had to at least sometimes charge on the road during the day? I know that at least three of the posters here qualify.
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, how many of the people posting to this thread have ridden long distances, day in and day out, where they had to at least sometimes charge on the road during the day? I know that at least three of the posters here qualify.
I only do usually one days Of 90-100miles and even with 2batteries (ebike and spare), I stopped 3x to charge 25min. Each time. With the Satiator @6.2amps.


The ebike is a30mph pedelec and on level 3 PAS 700-800watts power with a backpack , some foods , water , spare battery and going 27-28 mph on flats , the juice gets empty at a rate of about 300wh/8-9miles ... again I like to go FAST. There are few hills as well. And is cold , I think in summer it does300wh /11-12miles.


If I start early I can stay in Level 2 Pas and do 300wh/ 20miles but going 23-24mph is not as exciting and adrenaline rush as 27-28mph and then there are the accelerations and fast Start from traffic lights that I like.
 

GypsyTreker

Active Member
Fast starts and 28mph adrenaline rushes are exactly what eBikes need to gain in popularity. It might also hasten battery tech to accommodate longer ranges at higher operating parameters. Along with battery tech education perhaps there should be adrenaline training. The AMA (American Motorcyclist Association) just posted new track speed limits (enforced by radar) for pit lane speeds of 50mph. Golly, wonder what speed they need for a "rush" if 50 is their slow speed limit. My point is, 28mph is not fast ( I will make an exception for single hull 30' sailboats and skateboards) unless it's passing another bicyclist doing 12mph. Those are the folks with enough clout to keep eBikes off all trails and bike paths. My suggestion to all the speed junkies out there, go to a NASCAR track and get a passenger seat experience in one of their Oval track cars with an up and coming professional driver ( who is works the back end of the pack on race-day , it's called filler) to get a perspective on how speed and adrenaline really work. An education like that will not only illustrate how low your adrenaline threshold is but perhaps even bore you with it once you have a comparison.