Is Bafang Finally Showing Their Hand

George S.

Well-Known Member
I've noticed the shift to a new generation from Bafang. A lot of the information comes through Eunorau. Now there is website that is basically a joint enterprise with both Eunorau and Bafang. There are listings right now for 2 products. There is a kit that roughly corresponds to the BBS02 and another that looks like the BBSHD. But not really. The 02 is now the M325 and the HD is now the M625. The kits that are listed right now include a battery. I guess the big deal is this line in the description:

Note: The M325 drive systems with CAN protocol, this motor is only compatible with the BT F22.960. C battery.

It's a very nice battery, with Samsung 21700 cells in a 14s4p. To me, that is the best battery you could buy, if money is not an object. But it turns the BBS02 kit into a $1200 proposition. I scrounged a battery and spent $650. That's a noticeable difference. Bafang has turned into Bosch, I guess. No surprise, to me. The new versions have hopefully solved a major problem. There is a bit ring on top and I believe they run a stainless steel 'hoop' over to the frame. The rotation problem has plagued my install. I hope this is the answer.

Bottom line: I don't think I will buy a Bafang MD, if this is the strategy. It's not ideal that Eunorau is clearly the favored vendor, as well, but I certainly saw that coming. Eunorau adds stuff every week, with a huge selection of hubs. Tons of bike models. Somebody is throwing money at these guys. What the heck, it's a two hour drive for me, assuming they warehouse this stuff in Vegas.

 

theemartymac

Well-Known Member
I think its only a matter of time for folks to catch up to the Canbus change. Several builders on here have mentioned that they are working with Bafang right now to update the Canbus connection, and once some 3rd party options are available/scripts leaked, there should be a boost in parts and interface availability in the DIY arena again. I've already seen posts on EndlessSphere by guys who have begun building new interface boards for the Canbus Bafangs, so once somebody gets a decent hack it will no doubt be released into the wild.


Bafang has never been the leader in the software interface side, and even with the earlier generations the stock options were always crude. It was third party products like eggrider that eventually released the best tuning and hardware upgrades (and displays, etc), and I'm gambling its going to be that way again in the near-term.
 
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tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I think its only a matter of time for folks to catch up to the Canbus change.
I' curious here, not intending sarcasm, but do we think Bafang will be easier to crack than Bosch, Yamaha, and their ilk? What worries me more are the parts streams. First generation BBSxx motors were obsolete in 2016 and the parts stream for them has dried up. Will Bafang continue with the current BBSxx series? Or are we ever closer to being forced into their complete system?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I think its only a matter of time for folks to catch up to the Canbus change. Several builders on here have mentioned that they are working with Bafang right now to update the Canbus connection, and once some 3rd party options are available/scripts leaked, there should be a boost in parts and interface availability in the DIY arena again. I've already seen posts on EndlessSphere by guys who have begun building new interface boards for the Canbus Bafangs, so once somebody gets a decent hack it will no doubt be released into the wild.


Bafang has never been the leader in the software interface side, and even with the earlier generations the stock options were always crude. It was third party products like eggrider that eventually released the best tuning and hardware upgrades (and displays, etc), and I'm gambling its going to be that way again in the near-term.
Sorry for my ignorance, but what's Canbus?

Looks like Canbus was something that's introduced by Bosch in 1983, is this something to make components un-interchangeable?
 

theemartymac

Well-Known Member
I can only imagine that they would prefer to be a supplier to the big builders vs the DIY market they started in. That's where the big money and consistent contracts/revenue/growth are anyway. At this point, I can't see a business case for supporting products much more than say 5 years old when they provide a max warranty of 3 years from manufacture, and no large builders are using that older generation in mainstream production.

And they certainly don't seem to be working very hard to lock out users. Those guys on endless sphere were able to start modifying the settings with $20 in amazon parts and some basic programming knowledge. I haven't seen anyone crack a next gen Bosch like that yet?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I can only imagine that they would prefer to be a supplier to the big builders vs the DIY market they started in. That's where the big money and consistent contracts/revenue/growth are anyway. At this point, I can't see a business case for supporting products much more than say 5 years old when they provide a max warranty of 3 years from manufacture, and no large builders are using that older generation in mainstream production.

And they certainly don't seem to be working very hard to lock out users. Those guys on endless sphere were able to start modifying the settings with $20 in amazon parts and some basic programming knowledge. I haven't seen anyone crack a next gen Bosch like that yet?
Even today, isn't DIY builders kind of a small market for Bafang?

How many Bafang powered manufactured ebikes are out there? vs how many Bafang powered DIY ebikes are out there?
 

theemartymac

Well-Known Member
Sorry for my ignorance, but what's Canbus?

Looks like Canbus was something that's introduced by Bosch in 1983, is this something to make components un-interchangeable?
Not at all. In fact its a standard designed to make it easier and more reliable to integrate different components. It's widely used in most manufacturing, and simply allows a large number of unique components to communicate over 1 wire set (or bluetooth connection, etc).
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Sorry for my ignorance, but what's Canbus?
Sadly Bafang is moving toward the business model created by Bosch and others that lock riders into their replacement parts and programming.
Besst WAS accessible and could run on our hard drive. but now it takes a dealer ID and password.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Sadly Bafang is moving toward the business model created by Bosch and others that lock riders into their replacement parts and programming.
Besst WAS accessible and could run on our hard drive. but now it takes a dealer ID and password.
Okay so, will Bafang be creating multiple codes for all the different manufactures?
What about Green Pedel?
Will they have to create unique code for different contractors?
As you can see, if you flip through the page, you can see Green Pedel manufacturing for multiple ebike companies.