Is it worth it ?

Genetics

Member
Region
USA
I’ve got a fat tire folder with a 750w Bafang (geared rear hub) 20” rim, I’m running a 48v 14.5 aH battery…..

I’m just not getting the power I want and I’ve got a couple questions that need to be answered before I can proceed.

#1 can’t I just swap the 750w rear wheel with a 1000w 48v replacement?

#2 will I need a bigger ESC ?

#3 if I need a bigger controller will the plugs coming from the new controller be the same ? Are controllers pretty much universal ?

#4 will the upgrade be worth it, is a 1000w motor going to give me a significant power increase ? My 750w motor just isn’t doing it for me any more, when I first bought the bike a little over a year ago it would literally set you back on takeoff and on gear change ! I’ve tried troubleshooting any possible issues but can’t find anything wrong so I suppose I’m just getting used to it.


any input will be appreciated but bottom line buying another bike or trying to build my own is not an option , I'm pretty much committed to this bike and hope I’m on the right track with this upgrade…… thanks for the help guys, Darren
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
You don't say what kind of power or speed you want, but to me a folding 20" is not the geometry to push to high speed. High resistance tires, tall vertical steerer, narrow handlebars, and an upright sitting position is not the proper formula for high speed.
 

Genetics

Member
Region
USA
You don't say what kind of power or speed you want, but to me a folding 20" is not the geometry to push to high speed. High resistance tires, tall vertical steerer, narrow handlebars, and an upright sitting position is not the proper formula for high speed.
Thank you for the response. I should be more specific and word it differently, I’m just looking for torque not speed. As far as I’m concerned 25 mph is plenty fast for me and even a crash at 15 mph would be catastrophic for my 55 year old body..

I'm wondering if I should just get a 52v battery and call it good, I probably wouldn’t need a upgraded ESC either, or would I ?

bottom line is I’m still in disbelief a little bit, when I bought the bike it had so much torque it would pull your hands from the handlebars if you weren’t careful, my friends keep telling me I’m probably just getting used to the power but frankly I’m not convinced, I really think the power has degraded over the last year…….

what are your thoughts ? Have you had this experience?

As you probably know I’m completely invested in the bike, I actually love the bike , how it rides and with the removal of the folding handlebars I’m currently using some really nice BMX bars and it handles beautifully…… In your opinion how could I get some quick extra torque ?
thank you again
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I’ve got a fat tire folder with a 750w Bafang (geared rear hub) 20” rim, I’m running a 48v 14.5 aH battery…..

I’m just not getting the power I want and I’ve got a couple questions that need to be answered before I can proceed.

#1 can’t I just swap the 750w rear wheel with a 1000w 48v replacement?

#2 will I need a bigger ESC ?

#3 if I need a bigger controller will the plugs coming from the new controller be the same ? Are controllers pretty much universal ?

#4 will the upgrade be worth it, is a 1000w motor going to give me a significant power increase ? My 750w motor just isn’t doing it for me any more, when I first bought the bike a little over a year ago it would literally set you back on takeoff and on gear change ! I’ve tried troubleshooting any possible issues but can’t find anything wrong so I suppose I’m just getting used to it.


any input will be appreciated but bottom line buying another bike or trying to build my own is not an option , I'm pretty much committed to this bike and hope I’m on the right track with this upgrade…… thanks for the help guys, Darren
What bike do you have?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the response. I should be more specific and word it differently, I’m just looking for torque not speed. As far as I’m concerned 25 mph is plenty fast for me and even a crash at 15 mph would be catastrophic for my 55 year old body..

I'm wondering if I should just get a 52v battery and call it good, I probably wouldn’t need a upgraded ESC either, or would I ?

bottom line is I’m still in disbelief a little bit, when I bought the bike it had so much torque it would pull your hands from the handlebars if you weren’t careful, my friends keep telling me I’m probably just getting used to the power but frankly I’m not convinced, I really think the power has degraded over the last year…….

what are your thoughts ? Have you had this experience?

As you probably know I’m completely invested in the bike, I actually love the bike , how it rides and with the removal of the folding handlebars I’m currently using some really nice BMX bars and it handles beautifully…… In your opinion how could I get some quick extra torque ?
thank you again
I don't know if you need an upgraded controller without knowing the current spec.
What kind of controller do you have?
(also, typically on ebike forums, we just call it a controller, not ESC. ESCs are usually used on RC car forum and stuff. Why? I don't know 😅)
 

Van Haren

Member
Region
USA
Yes after a year you will see some loss of power. The battery will loss power.
Why not spend the money on the real thing. I prefer Honda and Yamaha.
Richard
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
I pulled a picture from your other thread. You're just used to the bike. When new, it was scary, because it was your first bike.
Sure is a good looking bike though. You've done some nice add to it.

There are probably 100 thousand similar bikes floating around. You'rs is a Black Max Crusier. There are the Radmini's, Lectric XP's, and a whole bunch of similar chinese imports. Mine is the Ecotric folder, which uses a silverfish battery like yours.. Many claim to have 750W motors, but they're probably the same as the 500W motor in my Ecotric. There's no room in the controller compartment (behind the pedals) for anything beyond a 20A controller. These bikes are powerful, at least to me, but they're not monsters.

The battery didn't come with high current cells. amd after a year of presumable throttle whomping, its reserves are gone. Check the fuse in it. Is it a 25A fuse? I doubt that many SIlverfish packs have enough cells to push 30 or more amps reliably. You would need one custom made to handle 30A.

The controller compartment in these bikes generally is only large enough to handle a 6FET 20A controller. That's all I can fit in mine. If you don't mind mounting it somewhere on the frame, you could upgrade to a 35A or 30A controller. It will probably need a new display plus some re-wiring. Then with a bigger battery/controller, you could look at lacing a real Bafang 750W motor into the rear wheel.

I don't think the above is worth it. A light folder, with a mid drive motor, like the Luna Mosso, is more appropriate for wheelies, although I'm sure your bike on a steep hill, with half the weight behind or over the rear wheel could lift the front wheel.

blackmax.jpg
 

Genetics

Member
Region
USA
I don't know if you need an upgraded controller without knowing the current spec.
What kind of controller do you have?
(also, typically on ebike forums, we just call it a controller, not ESC. ESCs are usually used on RC car forum and stuff. Why? I don't know 😅)
Yeah - I wouldn’t know either, I’ve been building multirotors IE Drones for so long it’s habit. Thanks for the input tho 😊
I wish I could delete my posts so that I don’t congest the threads, I think I’m going to bag this idea of more power but when I do replace my battery I’m going to upgrade to a 52v, do you think the controller will handle it ?
 

Genetics

Member
Region
USA
I pulled a picture from your other thread. You're just used to the bike. When new, it was scary, because it was your first bike.
Sure is a good looking bike though. You've done some nice add to it.

There are probably 100 thousand similar bikes floating around. You'rs is a Black Max Crusier. There are the Radmini's, Lectric XP's, and a whole bunch of similar chinese imports. Mine is the Ecotric folder, which uses a silverfish battery like yours.. Many claim to have 750W motors, but they're probably the same as the 500W motor in my Ecotric. There's no room in the controller compartment (behind the pedals) for anything beyond a 20A controller. These bikes are powerful, at least to me, but they're not monsters.

The battery didn't come with high current cells. amd after a year of presumable throttle whomping, its reserves are gone. Check the fuse in it. Is it a 25A fuse? I doubt that many SIlverfish packs have enough cells to push 30 or more amps reliably. You would need one custom made to handle 30A.

The controller compartment in these bikes generally is only large enough to handle a 6FET 20A controller. That's all I can fit in mine. If you don't mind mounting it somewhere on the frame, you could upgrade to a 35A or 30A controller. It will probably need a new display plus some re-wiring. Then with a bigger battery/controller, you could look at lacing a real Bafang 750W motor into the rear wheel.

I don't think the above is worth it. A light folder, with a mid drive motor, like the Luna Mosso, is more appropriate for wheelies, although I'm sure your bike on a steep hill, with half the weight behind or over the rear wheel could lift the front wheel.

View attachment 102146
Hey- thank you for the good info and compliment. And yes I’ve done a couple upgrades like the cable actuated hydraulic brakes, i also splurged $260 on a kinekt seat post, probably one of the best moves I’ve made for the bike, although it was a lot of money for a damb seat post it definitely does the job and NO sore backs anymore….. I really like the upright riding position too, very different from the ten speed bikes I rode as a kid.
I looked up your bike and WOW, it’s basically the same bike but half the price, I paid $1,500 for mine and now I’m feeling a little ripped off lol, I bought mine about a year and a half ago when this whole E-bike thing started gaining momentum, I tried researching the best I could but ended up buying the bike from a tool rental company next town over , they had a dozen different bikes and I figured I’d go with a vendor who supported the bike…..
ANYHOW- one question, can’t I just have a 52v battery made for the bike using quality cells ? Seems like I might get that tiny bit of UMPH I’m looking for. The controller should be able to handle a few extra volts right ?
hey- thanks again for all the input I surely appreciate you taking the time out to do so.
 
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Van Haren

Member
Region
USA
I have a very similar NAKTO and I don't want more speed. With there upright fork it's already dangerous at 15mph.
I have had many motorcycles. The last one went 157mph. Now on my third electric.
 

Genetics

Member
Region
USA
I have a very similar NAKTO and I don't want more speed. With there upright fork it's already dangerous at 15mph.
I have had many motorcycles. The last one went 157mph. Now on my third electric.
If you don’t mind me asking , what W motor do you have in your daily driver (rear hub or mid drive) and how much do you weigh ?
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Upgrading to 52V would give you more speed for the same current, but not more torque. It most likely wouldn't damage your controller, but I couldn't say for sure. It would throw any voltage and range calculations on your display off.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
Not many discrete controllers have overvoltage circuits, so it's a good chance you can get 52V working. You'll want some high current high AH cells like Samsung GA cells in it.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
72V battery
I was not sure if that type of battery would fit, but I know Blix Aveny, a bike with Silverfish battery simply switched to Hailong (or similar) type battery so I thought it might be possible.

Phaserunner controller

GMAC Motor

 

Van Haren

Member
Region
USA
If you don’t mind me asking , what W motor do you have in your daily driver (rear hub or mid drive) and how much do you weigh ?
It's 48V10AH with 500W hub motor with a defective controller and throttle. 20" x 4" tires. I'm 175 lbs at 5'3". I'm boxing it up to ship back to China for an exchange.
 

K PierreR

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Voltage determines ultimate speed and amps determines torque. You might be able to get by with just a new controller or a readjustment in your thinking.

750 watts (1 hp) is powerful in the world of human power but a total non starter in the world of power sports. 1,000 watts is 1.25 hp. Still a non starter. The difference in thinking is be satisfied with one hp or look outside the realm of e bicycles.
 

Genetics

Member
Region
USA
Voltage determines ultimate speed and amps determines torque. You might be able to get by with just a new controller or a readjustment in your thinking.

750 watts (1 hp) is powerful in the world of human power but a total non starter in the world of power sports. 1,000 watts is 1.25 hp. Still a non starter. The difference in thinking is be satisfied with one hp or look outside the realm of e bicycles.
Good stuff, I like the way you think…. Thank you
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Voltage determines ultimate speed and amps determines torque. You might be able to get by with just a new controller or a readjustment in your thinking.

750 watts (1 hp) is powerful in the world of human power but a total non starter in the world of power sports. 1,000 watts is 1.25 hp. Still a non starter. The difference in thinking is be satisfied with one hp or look outside the realm of e bicycles.
If 750W = 1hp, 1000W would be more like 1.33hp.

1000 / 750=1.3333....