It’s 2025 what does your ebike look like?

christob

Well-Known Member
Then very rapidly you're talking about these "what-if" 2025 updates being for road-only bikes.
"Traffic" on a multi-use trail never flows at 35, and putting a 35mph cruising cyclists on a strip of pavement with pedestrians and leashed dogs and kids on trikes is a recipe for disaster! ;)
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Then very rapidly you're talking about these "what-if" 2025 updates being for road-only bikes.
"Traffic" on a multi-use trail never flows at 35, and putting a 35mph cruising cyclists on a strip of pavement with pedestrians and leashed dogs and kids on trikes is a recipe for disaster! ;)
I think we had this sort of debate on this forum before, but when people hear "28mph Class 3" they assume that people will try to ride at max speed all the time.
When we say Class 3 can be very useful, others say it's outright dangerous because 28mph is way too fast on bike trail.

We're talking about case by case scenario, obviously you won't be going as fast as possible all the time, but in some cases, the extra top speed of Class 3 can be very useful.

For example, you wouldn't be going 28mph in these situations:

Homer Bike Path

san francisco protected bike lane


However, you can go faster in these situations:

The East Bay Bike Path near Providence, Rhode Island
 

antboy

Active Member
Actually 35mph max

Because going slower than traffic flow isn't necessarily safer.
Yeah, I'd like to see the 3 classes disappear, and have one across-the-board 28mph OR 35mph max motor, whether it's provided by pedal assist or throttle.

Either way, e-bikers are supposed to follow posted speed limits. For example, we have multi-use paths that are limited to 20kph. I rarely exceed them, except when passing.

Similarly, there's been a couple of traffic situations without bike lanes where the arbitrary 32kph felt a little slow, given that the street limit is 50kph.
 

Handlebars

Active Member
The motor can be told to not rotate so the bike won’t move. The effect is quite powerful. But why not use the front brake. Another thought is it may become like a car and you only have one brake lever. The bike sends braking where the traction is.
But I might only want to use the rear wheel to drag, the front brake doesn't work the same way.
If we're going for an automated bike, it should be pilotless - for your own SAFETY and the SAFETY of others and to save precious fossil fuel energy your battery sucked up and not let you steer a poor path to where it allows you to go to.
 

Handlebars

Active Member
But I might only want to use the rear wheel to drag, the front brake doesn't work the same way.
If we're going for an automated bike, it should be pilotless - for your own SAFETY and the SAFETY of others and to save precious fossil fuel energy your battery sucked up and not let you steer a poor path to where it allows you to go to.
Of course, it must have autobalance for starters - can't have crashes going on.
 

Handlebars

Active Member
Yeah, I'd like to see the 3 classes disappear, and have one across-the-board 28mph OR 35mph max motor, whether it's provided by pedal assist or throttle.

Either way, e-bikers are supposed to follow posted speed limits. For example, we have multi-use paths that are limited to 20kph. I rarely exceed them, except when passing.

Similarly, there's been a couple of traffic situations without bike lanes where the arbitrary 32kph felt a little slow, given that the street limit is 50kph.
I think so too. But others don't think so. They don't think MUCH.
Check this out:
must weigh less than 40 kg and requires pedaling for propulsion.
... City of Toronto's Municipal code recognizes two categories of e-bikes; pedelecs which are similar to bicycles, and e-scooters which are similar to gas scooters.

Pedelecs requires propulsion and are defined as a bicycle and can be used anywhere bicycles are permitted. E-Scooters can be driven solely by motor power and these are not allowed on multi-use trails or cycle tracks.

Pedelecs
E-bikes which are similar to bicycles are considered to be bicycles by the municipality of Toronto and may be used on all types of cycling infrastructure:

  • painted bike lanes
  • cycle tracks (separated bicycle lanes)
  • multi-use trails
By definition in the Toronto Municipal Code, a 'pedelec' must weigh less than 40 kg and requires pedaling for propulsion.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'd like to see the 3 classes disappear, and have one across-the-board 28mph OR 35mph max motor, whether it's provided by pedal assist or throttle.

Either way, e-bikers are supposed to follow posted speed limits. For example, we have multi-use paths that are limited to 20kph. I rarely exceed them, except when passing.

Similarly, there's been a couple of traffic situations without bike lanes where the arbitrary 32kph felt a little slow, given that the street limit is 50kph.
yeah, by going slower than flow of traffic, you actually become a hazard.

It is much safer to go 50km/h if flow of traffic is 50km/h.

People think slower you ride your bicycle = safer.
However, it is NOT safe to ride your bicycle at 15km/h in the traffic where cars/motorcycles flying by at 50km/h.
Speed differentiation in traffic will contribute nothing for safety.

I'm not saying ebikers should ride at 50km/h(31mph) in the bike trail where there's lots of joggers, pedestrians and other cyclists.
But in some situations, going 50km/h is completely safe.

This work was done in British Columbia, Canada.
Although it is not specific to ebikes, some of the theories would apply.
 

Al P

Active Member
Lighter comes a greater cost and is not worth it unless you are an Tour de France rider. I laugh at riders arguing about a gram here and there and they are 20 pounds overweight. The motor on an ebike makes a few extra pounds inconsequential. Plus they can design for more strength and longevity.
For me, the weight has nothing to do with riding. It's about the struggle to mount my 56 lb. bike on the vehicle's rack. As a comparison, my kit bike weighs at least 20 lbs. less and is much easier to lift. I'll gladly pay more for lighter weight.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
Don't want regen braking, it inhibits my ability to ride the bike self propelled if the wind is gentle. Don't want fancy display, they **** out in the rain. Don't want G***d*** cell phone requirement. You get hit, the cell phone is on the bike, not in your pocket in the weeds like my flip phone (hard to find these days!). Would like more range in same weight/size battery. I like the derailleurs which have less drag than IGH, but for either, I want electro-shift. Flicking lever with thumb or twisting barrel with hand (I've tried both) BOTH cause my thumb joint to flare up and prevent me from playing piano. I'm building such, the electro shifters available now are for drop handlebar road bikes with minimum 10 speed sprocket. Hydraulic brakes now required by Shimano & SRAM electro shifters.
Would like a frame where the front trail is increased for more stability, and the front wheel is moved out so it doesn't foul my feet when turning. So longer more expensive handlebars. Broke the fender mount off with toe 2 weeks ago !@#$#% Sawing the frame off short probably saved yuba $.25 in aluminum and $40 in shipping from Asia.
 

Cyklefanatic

Active Member
I don't think most ebikes will be radically different in 5 years. Battery and motors will be more efficient. I think we'll see more high end, very lightweight road and gravel bikes with drop bars that are powered by very small, almost undetectable hub and mid drive motors.

I personally wouldn't ever buy an ebike that relies on a cellphone to operate. I enjoy riding many places in the mountains where there is no cellphone coverage. Most functions will work offline I'm sure, but I like to ride with the phone off and in the pannier. I enjoy the ride far more when I'm offline! I'm sure ebike companies will want smartphones to control their bikes, It's much cheaper for them to develope an app to cover all and rely on the end user to spend a grand plus every year or two on a new operating system.

There's more regulation coming, it's already started. I really liked flying under the radar the last five years. Class 2 and 3 will be regulated more. At a recent meeting with lawmakers we were asked if we would object to having a prominent class 1 license sticker to ride the paths and trails.

Prices now, for the most part, are lower. There will always be the super high end bikes, but a $1500 bike today was $2000+ a few years ago. I expect that trend to continue as long as sales increase. There's already some standardization across brands. That will help drive prices down.

The future looks bright☀:cool:
using the phone as the dash should help reduce costs. The idea is the phone is offline while riding. You would see information from the motor and battery not emails and Instagram.
 

Cyklefanatic

Active Member
Then very rapidly you're talking about these "what-if" 2025 updates being for road-only bikes.
"Traffic" on a multi-use trail never flows at 35, and putting a 35mph cruising cyclists on a strip of pavement with pedestrians and leashed dogs and kids on trikes is a recipe for disaster! ;)
Need a way to inhibit speed so that it only is allowed when on a road not a path. Too bad there are so many idiots.
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
using the phone as the dash should help reduce costs. The idea is the phone is offline while riding. You would see information from the motor and battery not emails and Instagram.
I think it will reduce costs for the manufacturer, not the end user. The Bosch COBI system didn't reduce the price of the bike and added another level of complexity for some users that caused issues. That may have been resolved by now. I just don't want my bike to rely on a phone, but the majority of my riding is off road.
 

ilanarama

Member
Lighter comes a greater cost and is not worth it unless you are an Tour de France rider. I laugh at riders arguing about a gram here and there and they are 20 pounds overweight. The motor on an ebike makes a few extra pounds inconsequential. Plus they can design for more strength and longevity.
Maybe for road bikes. But for mountain bikes, lighter is better, because it's easier to control a lighter bike on rough, steep terrain, and if you need to hike-a-bike (see my avatar image!) it's much easier to carry a lighter bike over obstacles.

I also expect my 2025 bike to be indistinguishable from a non-electric bike at a casual glance; to have a belt drive (well, my 2019 e-bike does); and to have automatic assist levels as well as being able to control assist manually.
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
My car can do 130 mph but in a school zone I go 25. There needs to be the same discipline with cyclists. That’s why I believe that licensing the rider is way more important than licensing the actual bike.
That’s the approach taken in the UK where to ride a Class 3/speed pedelec requires full motorcycle training, license, liability insurance, because “legally you’re riding a moped” see https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/advice/electric-bikes-and-uk-law-53 and where the police can charge you with driving offenses, putting your drivers license at risk https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/th...-to-being-charged-with-driving-offences.35927

Reclassifying Class 3 doesn’t have to mean losing sales, the Netherlands experimented with allowing speed pedelecs on bike paths for a few years then in 2017 reclassified them as mopeds and banned them again from paths but allowed them to use street bike lanes, sales are still growing Source https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2018/12/speed-pedelec-sales-shows-steady-growth-10134978
 
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Timpo

Well-Known Member
That’s the approach taken in the UK where to ride a Class 3/speed pedelec requires full motorcycle training, license, liability insurance, because “legally you’re riding a moped” see https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/advice/electric-bikes-and-uk-law-53 and where the police can charge you with driving offenses, putting your drivers license at risk https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/th...-to-being-charged-with-driving-offences.35927

Reclassifying Class 3 doesn’t have to mean losing sales, the Netherlands experimented with allowing speed pedelecs on bike paths for a few years then in 2017 reclassified them as mopeds and banned them again from paths but allowed them to use street bike lanes, sales are still growing Source https://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2018/12/speed-pedelec-sales-shows-steady-growth-10134978
Well I'm getting rid of my ebike if they're going to mandate registration, insurance, licensing fees, or whatever.
I'll just go back to motorcycle.
 

Ken M

Well-Known Member
For me, the weight has nothing to do with riding. It's about the struggle to mount my 56 lb. bike on the vehicle's rack. As a comparison, my kit bike weighs at least 20 lbs. less and is much easier to lift. I'll gladly pay more for lighter weight.
If you an ebike is meant to be a commuter model / car supplement why would you be putting it on a car rack? That would be like putting a motorcycle on your car rack.