Just got the ultra eagle - getting used to the midrive?

330rcs

Active Member
I have had the juiced bikes fat tire Ripcurrent S with bafang 750w rear hub motor for 1.5 yrs and now I decided I wanted a mid drive so I got the ultra eagle.

Has anybody else came here from a rear hub bike and switch to a mid drive? I feel like it's going to take me a bit to get used to. The main thing is how the motor drops rpms and you feel that slight pause when you change gears. It's kind of annnoying. With my rear hub motor there's no kind of delay or pause or nothing between changing gears. I can go from a stop and speed up quickly and "click, click, click" all the way up to 9th gear right away.

With the mid drive when I want to take off fast from a stop and I want to change gears in the same way Im used to with the rip current it's like "click" "pause" "click" "pause". So it's kind of annoying even though I am going way freaking faster on the ultra eagle than my Ripcurrent but it's just kind of weird it's like somehow with hard pedaling I reached those speeds and was in the right gear. The torque is pretty crazy but I just seem to get annoyed with the pause between changing gears because I'm used to changing fast like before I could change the gear into low gear right when I reach the steep part of the hill and go up it but with the mid drive you have to change gears way before otherwise if the motor pauses on the steep part of the hill the bike will stop basically.

I don't want to give up on it like I said maybe I just need to get used to it or find a different style of changing gears for the mid drive. I do notice during a gear change after the pause it picks up way more speed all of a sudden. It doesn't really feel "natural" though like it does on the rear hub with the mid drive you definately know it's the motor (if that makes any sense).

I just got it a few days ago so like I said getting used to it but another thing I noticed again not sure if it's just in my head but I feel like when I stop pedaling on the mid drive it's like my speed starts dropping much more quicker than on the rear hub which feels like when I stop pedaling I can keep coasting for longer. I don't know if it's because the Ripcurrent is 4" fat tires or maybe it's the 52t chainring? Not sure if that has anything to do with it. Or just the fact the rear hub being in the rear tire it kind of "pushes" you so you are coasting on momentum? Does that make sense?
 
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The gear sensor stops the motor for a short bit to let the derailleur make the shift. This way there is no or decreased tension on the drive train while it is changing gears. I remember mountain biking up and down steep inclines on a regular bike. If I tried to shift either up or down under heavy pedal load, it would put a lot of stress on the drive train/gears. If you are going up a steep incline on a non electric bike, standing up in the pedals and you try to shift down to make the climb easier you will grind your gears and the bike will shift under load/tension causing a lot of noise and stress on the drive train. I remember coming up on some hill, pedaling hard/fast...try to shift to lower gear quick under load and grind the gears and/or not be able to make the shift because the tension on the chain wouldn't allow the derailleur to move properly or on time. Well the Ultra motor puts out way more watts/torque than human legs, so the gear sensor shuts it off for that short time to keep the Newtons off the chain.

With the hub motor there is no motor stress on the drive train, just human power...which is quite a bit less than the power the Ultra supplies.

A human might not have enough indiscriminate power to wreck the drive train or snap the chain under load, but the Ultra could do it easily under stressful conditions.

With mid drives think: "If its hard for your legs to turn the crank its hard for the motor as well". A hub drive only fights gravity or inertia regardless of how you are pedaling.

A hub drive works independent of your drive train.

Like you said a hub drive "pushes" you...a mid drive mimics your leg power.

Imagine if Superman where smashing on the pedals during a shift...he would be snapping chains and wrecking gears.

Hope that makes sense...
 

ElevenAD

Active Member
that pause is a shift sensor and its great! saves you from wrecking the drivetrain, once you get used to using the gears you will love it.
my Biktriks did not come with a sensor and trust me you dont want that, i went and purchased one fast!
 

lordnox09

Member
I have had the juiced bikes fat tire Ripcurrent S with bafang 750w rear hub motor for 1.5 yrs and now I decided I wanted a mid drive so I got the ultra eagle.

Has anybody else came here from a rear hub bike and switch to a mid drive? I feel like it's going to take me a bit to get used to. The main thing is how the motor drops rpms and you feel that slight pause when you change gears. It's kind of annnoying. With my rear hub motor there's no kind of delay or pause or nothing between changing gears. I can go from a stop and speed up quickly and "click, click, click" all the way up to 9th gear right away.

With the mid drive when I want to take off fast from a stop and I want to change gears in the same way Im used to with the rip current it's like "click" "pause" "click" "pause". So it's kind of annoying even though I am going way freaking faster on the ultra eagle than my Ripcurrent but it's just kind of weird it's like somehow with hard pedaling I reached those speeds and was in the right gear. The torque is pretty crazy but I just seem to get annoyed with the pause between changing gears because I'm used to changing fast like before I could change the gear into low gear right when I reach the steep part of the hill and go up it but with the mid drive you have to change gears way before otherwise if the motor pauses on the steep part of the hill the bike will stop basically.

I don't want to give up on it like I said maybe I just need to get used to it or find a different style of changing gears for the mid drive. I do notice during a gear change after the pause it picks up way more speed all of a sudden. It doesn't really feel "natural" though like it does on the rear hub with the mid drive you definately know it's the motor (if that makes any sense).

I just got it a few days ago so like I said getting used to it but another thing I noticed again not sure if it's just in my head but I feel like when I stop pedaling on the mid drive it's like my speed starts dropping much more quicker than on the rear hub which feels like when I stop pedaling I can keep coasting for longer. I don't know if it's because the Ripcurrent is 4" fat tires or maybe it's the 52t chainring? Not sure if that has anything to do with it. Or just the fact the rear hub being in the rear tire it kind of "pushes" you so you are coasting on momentum? Does that make sense?
As for the shifting you can make it better if you only shift down a couple of gears and put in a bit of work from the start you can still accelerate quicker than the hub with pedaling and you will only have like 4 pauses as you shift back up I can get to 35km/h before I have to shift once then it goes to 39ish so I usually just skip that one and do a double shift and your 2nd last gear will bring you to top end if you let her rip or just shift one more but you can accelerate up to 35 and then let off throttle spin the cranks well in pas 1 and shift to the highest and punch it again and go like a bat outta hell but yeah I have snapped one chain at 200km trying to shift on a hill even with the shift sensor it skipped and instant snap luckily was around the corner from home

I would say compared to my hub motor my juggernaut ultra fs takes more human input to ride it the hub motor was easy just find a gear where you are not killing your self and still at a good pace and input and just go can start in that gear and pedal off the start the ultra on the other hand you have to remember to shift down before a hill or stopping or your motor will have to overwork to get you moving the same way you do even on a hub motor if you start from a standstill in the hardest gear you still have to stand on the pedals
 

Deafcat

Active Member
Yep there is definitely a little learning curve coming from hub motor to powerful mid-drive, I did the same. My girlfriend rides the hub drive bike (bafang G60), it's a reliable commuting solution.

Me, I prefer the Ultra motor for road commute since it's got a much greater top speed, for my shift interruption I use a custom solution of my own design... Instead of a shift sensor triggering a specific motor cutout for the shift to happen, I've got a left hand small lever/trigger which uses the front e-brake cutout to precisely cut power during shifts. I shift a lot, as I'm running a 12-speed SRAM configuration with a big front chainring. The cutout lever also lets me cut power when coasting, say while riding slowly in traffic up to a light/behind traffic, or to cut power while riding on sheer ice and other challenging little surprises.

Eventually I plan to get around to selling that sporty clutch/cutout lever... I really think it's the most fun, and it's not really any more difficult to get used to. The shift sensor is still a great all-around solution once you get used to it as well!
 

ElevenAD

Active Member
i know what your feeling, are mid drives over rated? should i have just purchased a more powerful hub bike? all things i thought when i jumped from a 750watt hub to a 1000watt mid, but over time you will see there are things your hubmotor cant do that the mid drive can and vise versa! both Rock, i usually alternate every day.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
i know what your feeling, are mid drives over rated?
Extremely powerful mid-drives are decidedly over-rated. Ride any Bosch, Shimano, Specialized/Brose or Giant/Yamaha e-bike (it might be a Class 3 one) to see the difference. I wonder how often the owner of the Bafang Ultra e-bike will need to replace the chain, cassette, chainring.
 

ElevenAD

Active Member
Extremely powerful mid-drives are decidedly over-rated. Ride any Bosch, Shimano, Specialized/Brose or Giant/Yamaha e-bike (it might be a Class 3 one) to see the difference. I wonder how often the owner of the Bafang Ultra e-bike will need to replace the chain, cassette, chainring.
not often, unless your gunning the bike full power throttle off the line everyday, ULtras have a physical shift sensor that stalls the motor every time you shift so no mashing or grinding gears!
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Extremely powerful mid-drives are decidedly over-rated. Ride any Bosch, Shimano, Specialized/Brose or Giant/Yamaha e-bike (it might be a Class 3 one) to see the difference. I wonder how often the owner of the Bafang Ultra e-bike will need to replace the chain, cassette, chainring.
Just a wild guess, but if he rides it like you ride yours, drive line component life shouldn't be much different, no?

Difference is the Ultra rider will have WAY more power available, AND it's easily tuned to rider preferences if it's not just right.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
not often, unless your gunning the bike full power throttle off the line everyday, ULtras have a physical shift sensor that stalls the motor every time you shift so no mashing or grinding gears!
I understand that. I only think of the tensile stress on the drive-train with such a powerful motor. The "Euro" mid-motors eat chain/cassette crazily even if these are less powerful in the comparison.
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
Extremely powerful mid-drives are decidedly over-rated. Ride any Bosch, Shimano, Specialized/Brose or Giant/Yamaha e-bike (it might be a Class 3 one) to see the difference. I wonder how often the owner of the Bafang Ultra e-bike will need to replace the chain, cassette, chainring.

Says a guy who has never ridden one. I've ridden most of the other brands and I still would choose the Bafang for my particular use. YMMV, but ride first and then judge.
 

330rcs

Active Member
I understand that. I only think of the tensile stress on the drive-train with such a powerful motor. The "Euro" mid-motors eat chain/cassette crazily even if these are less powerful in the comparison.

I have had to do all that anyway with my 750w rear hub juiced bike over the year. That's the reason I got a second bike was if one is in the shop. I don't care about the maintenance as long as I'm having fun with it.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
I have had to do all that anyway with my 750w rear hub juiced bike over the year. That's the reason I got a second bike was if one is in the shop. I don't care about the maintenance as long as I'm having fun with it.
That's strange as the hub-motor doesn't act on the drive-train at all?
 

330rcs

Active Member
That's strange as the hub-motor doesn't act on the drive-train at all?

I'm just hard on the bike I guess it's my only form of transportation so it gets a lot of miles. The chainring I upgraded to a narrow wide but my cassette was upgraded the first time and second time teeth started wearing and I have snapped the chain a couple times and replaced it. It gets up to 30 mph pretty easily and Im usually going fast so it gets quite a bit of general wear from my use. It may not be the motor itself.
 

ElevenAD

Active Member
I understand that. I only think of the tensile stress on the drive-train with such a powerful motor. The "Euro" mid-motors eat chain/cassette crazily even if these are less powerful in the comparison.
my Bafang Mid drive is 1000watt, with an Upgraded 52v battery so its over 160nm of torque lugging 235lbs, of me with another 25 to 30lbs in my back pack, i have only had the bike for lil over a year, it only has 1500miles but i dont baby it and so far the only thing i have replaced are inner tubes.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
my Bafang Mid drive is 1000watt, with an Upgraded 52v battery so its over 160nm of torque lugging 235lbs, of me with another 25 to 30lbs in my back pack, i have only had the bike for lil over a year, it only has 1500miles but i dont baby it and so far the only thing i have replaced are inner tubes.

This leads me to wonder if you have measured your chain for wear recently?
 

330rcs

Active Member
Went out riding today so far NOT so good. Was going up a steep hill and I geared down ahead of time, got on the throttle just as I got to the very top of the hill it fucking wheelied and I fell on my ass. Almost did it a second time on another very steep hill that normally with my rear hub I hit it with some speed and momentum carries me. This kind of struggled at the top thought I was going to fall on my ass again.

First time to come to a stop light on this, geared down and normally on my rear hub just as I take off I start gearing up and get out of traffic. I can take off quicker than a car on my rear hub. With this I started to gear up and yep paused in the middle of a major intersection with a car coming at me wanting to make a left.

So I'm thinking why should I even change gears at all? Why not just keep it in the highest gear and just stay on the throttle? That way when I'm taking off from a stop I don't have to change gears and just let it pick up speed? Or really why even pedal on this thing? There's no middle ground with this thing, it's either balls to the wall wheelie or not enough assist and you have to continously stay on the throttle. Otherwise whenever I let go of the throttle there's a significant drop in speed. There's no coasting or cruising on this thing unless you stay on the throttle.

Then when I got down to 20% battery a couple minutes later I dropped to 0% all of a sudden so the display reading isn't even accurate. On my rear hub it has bars and if I'm down to 2 or 3 bars it doesn't just all of a sudden go to 0. It's really accurate and I've never ran out of power on the road in 1.5 yrs as my only form of transportation.

With my rear hub I can go UPHILL at 28-30 mph if I give it my full power pedaling and coming at it with momentum, I am in decent shape. this damn thing I can't I keep pausing going up hill the only thing I can do is just stay on the throttle. There are hills every where in Colorado I always thought thy said mid drive was better for hills. It's definately not for me. On my rear hub I only use the throttle when I take off from a dead stop otherwise I just rely on assist even going up hill. On this thing I have to stay on the throttle continously it sucks.

I'd rather be able to always consistently stay in the upper 20s lower 30 mph range like with my rear hub. I can't keep a consistent speed with this thing it's like there's no assist. It's either having to put in too much effort or its balls to the wall 35-38 mph. Id rather have a consistent speed my entire ride instead of being too slow or too fast.
 
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330rcs

Active Member
My 750w is plenty fast for me and I was wanting something as a backup and better but I guess mid drives just aren't for me. The 750w is perfect for me but if I could go a little faster sometimes would be nice I'm talking like 3-4 mph but you know I don't think I needed a bigger motor. I think I needed a lighter bike. The 70 lb 4" fat tire is too heavy if I can get a 750w with 2.8 or 3" tires that might be all I need.

I do like how the Eagle is light and it's easier to maneuver. I contacted Biktrix to see if I can return it I don't care what I have to pay but Im not sure if they will even take it back if you ride it. Their policy might be it has to be unused but I'm waiting for their reply. Otherwise time to buy a third bike and put this up until I can sell it. I'll probably lose a couple thousand probably hard to find somebody to pay $4k for an ebike oh well