Karmic Bikes on TechCrunch!

Lenny

Well-Known Member
If it truly weighs 36 lbs!! and comes with a NTS system battery with warranty then we would be very interested.
We might be able to support your venture/crowd funding campaign as well.
I need details of the warranty and full spec.

Feel free to contact here or send a mail to crazylenny.ebikes@gmail.com.
 

Lenny

Well-Known Member
Did I hear that right? 30 lbs!!
I mean, even the Felt Sport-e weighs in at 39lbs. Chris king wheels, 6061 frame and NTS battery for less than $2K. Impressive.
Again, I'm interested in the details.
 

Hong

Active Member
Hi Lenny,

The base bike weighs around 36lbs, but we need to finalize the parts specification for production. The battery is based on the NTS patented technology, but smaller than the original Mini 48v size since we were seeing so much range with that pack and the mid-drive motor. The blue bike in the pictures and videos is 30lbs, but it was a full-custom build to show people the potential. The Chris King wheels alone are about $800, so that couldn't possibly be included at a $2k retail price.

But you can still build up a lighter ebike for less than almost anything else on the market today.

You can join our mailing list for Kickstarter at the bottom of the page here: http://www.karmicbikes.com/

Cheers,
Hong
p.s. I've added you, but you need to confirm you want to be on the mailing list.
 

Kaldeem

Active Member
So you guys made a carbon bike, put a 350w Bafang motor on it and called it a day? I'm interested in the mini battery technology, as long as I've been trolling these forums I haven't seen that small of a pack, especially on a Bafang. What is that battery size and amp hour?

I should say, "props". I'm super glad there's more e-bikes going up in the market. I hope you guys do well and find a niche market for your product.
 

Hong

Active Member
Sorry, the bike is *not* carbon, that's a misquote by the reporter. It's an alloy frame with an optional carbon package (fork, bars, seatpost) to get the weight down.

And I'll take it as a compliment that you think we just threw a motor on it and "called it a day." A lot of work was done to simplify the bike and make it fun to ride. The smaller, and lighter, battery pack allows us to make a complete package that's fast and affordable.
 

Kaldeem

Active Member
Your welcome.
So ignoring my comment, I did ask a question about the battery watts and amperage. Is that information available?
 

Kaldeem

Active Member
I think they quoted 48V , (5.9 - 6.4Ah) for a total of 300Whr capacity.
Thanks Lenny, I watched the video twice and still didn't hear that. So the pack can be that small because of the low amperage? Dose the more amps it carry directly affect the size of the battery? I'm not savvy on watts/volts/ and amps. So im trying to understand how they have such a tiny pack, and why others are so stinking large.
 

Hong

Active Member
So ignoring my comment, I did ask a question about the battery watts and amperage. Is that information available?
Sorry, wasn't ignoring anyone, we got a lot of emails yesterday as you can imagine. The reason we didn't mention the battery specs in the video is because we're still testing out different cells and configurations. Lenny has it right, with the 29E and 32E cells, we can get about 300 watt-hours in our small pack. Our larger pack is about 400wh, and it's still much smaller than every other ebike battery pack out there. Technology is amazing isn't it?
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Thanks Lenny, I watched the video twice and still didn't hear that. So the pack can be that small because of the low amperage? Dose the more amps it carry directly affect the size of the battery? I'm not savvy on watts/volts/ and amps. So im trying to understand how they have such a tiny pack, and why others are so stinking large.
As I understand it, that's exactly correct there is a direct link between the pack size and amps. Of course there is a minimum size to achieve 48v for each chemistry and this may be it. I don't know enough about it. @George S. likely would know.

Sorry, wasn't ignoring anyone, we got a lot of emails yesterday as you can imagine. The reason we didn't mention the battery specs in the video is because we're still testing out different cells and configurations. Lenny has it right, with the 29E and 32E cells, we can get about 300 watt-hours in our small pack. Our larger pack is about 400wh, and it's still much smaller than every other ebike battery pack out there. Technology is amazing isn't it?
The size of that 300wh battery looks great, but I'm also interested in knowing the weight of that pack. It's a great idea, this small pack. Purchase 3 or 4 of them, throw as many as you need in a bag for your expected travel for that day. It's high time someone made a small lightweight pack. So what is the weight of that 300wh pack?

I did signup for news on your bike @Hong First time I've thought about backing a KS project. Cant believe I said that! Good luck Hong.
 

Hong

Active Member
I did signup for news on your bike @Hong First time I've thought about backing a KS project. Cant believe I said that! Good luck Hong.
Wow, that's high praise, appreciate your support! The small pack weighs about 4lbs (in the bag), but will be less than 5lbs even with our all-aluminum housing.
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
So the 32e cells are the latest stuff, the 3200 mAH. If you configure 13s 2P? That's the 6.4 aH and 48 volt, nominally. I'd like to see a picture of the cells in that NTS pack, which is not soldered, yes? How much bulk does the NTS frame add? That's a very nice feature, a fully rebuildable pack, and NTS never seemed to get much traction. It still seems like the pack is a bit small for 26 cells.

This is a pretty nice bike with a very solid battery pack. I think people who start with a bike frame, the hybrid bikes that weigh in the 20's, can do 35 pounds with a smallish battery pack. The Bafang is maybe 6 pounds, the battery another 6. I'm doing a MAC conversion and hope to come in around there.

The $1500 would be a nice price, but all the details would help. Good luck. It's a very nice look and putting the pack where you do minimizes the wiring on a mid-drive.
 

Hong

Active Member
You got it George! The newer 32E cells will get us some nice range, but they're not in production until later this summer. We will be showing more pics of the pack and it's parts on our Kickstarter campaign, it wasn't ready for this TechCrunch review. The Bafang is 4kg, which is closer to 9lbs. We estimate the Karmic Kit adds about 15lbs to your existing bike. The $1500 price is basically the cost of the kit, on top of a mid-level bike shop bike (average retail of $750).
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Wow, that's high praise, appreciate your support! The small pack weighs about 4lbs (in the bag), but will be less than 5lbs even with our all-aluminum housing.
Not that 4-5lbs is heavy for 300wh, but I was hoping that new technology would have batteries a little lighter. Possibly a 36v, 8ah battery at 3lbs, given you can get a 36v-11ah battery at 8+/- pounds. Have you looked into solid state batteries at all? Having one made to the shape you need? You could cover a solid-state lithium Ion battery with carbon fiber and get a very lightweight battery. I realize that would be very cutting edge and expensive right now and I'm not even sure if that's possible for an e-bike, but that's the kind of battery I've been waiting to hear about. Two 5lb batteries in a back pack is not something I want to carry. A rack bag of some sort, maybe.

What kind of real world range are you hoping for with the proposed battery/motor build? I say real world and I mean a 40 year old, semi-fit 5'10", 180lb. rider with some hills. I'm a semi-fit, 53yo, 6'2" at 190lb, with a lot of hills.
 

Hong

Active Member
We could make a superlight battery in a carbon fiber enclosure, but it would likely cost more than our complete bike.

New battery tech is always coming out, but we're probably 2-5yrs away from the scenario you envision J.R.
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
We could make a superlight battery in a carbon fiber enclosure, but it would likely cost more than our complete bike.

New battery tech is always coming out, but we're probably 2-5yrs away from the scenario you envision J.R.
And range?
What kind of real world range are you hoping for with the proposed battery/motor build? I say real world and I mean a 40 year old, semi-fit 5'10", 180lb. rider with some hills. I'm a semi-fit, 53yo, 6'2" at 190lb, with a lot of hills.
 

Hong

Active Member
Oh sorry! I can't comment on the "future battery" but our small pack is targeting 15 miles real-world range. Our larger pack has been tested at over 30 miles of real-world range.