Killer Slopes

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
There is this (admittedly dated) article on Rad Power's web site:


And I quote from that article:

Never ride up hills which exceed a 15 percent (%) grade with the motor fully engaged. If you need to ride up hills steeper than 15% grade, it is important to set the bike to a lower level of pedal assist (levels 1, 2, or 3) and to maintain a reasonable speed above a walking pace.
 

Pharroh

New Member
As Steve Mercier has just posted a couple links to the youtube videos of EMBN guys that demonstrate how to ride and what to look for are great videos.

If you look closely they and most others that make videos about ebike they ALL use MID DRIVE units . Unless they are using them on flat level ground.

Even they know the mid drive out preforms anything on the market. when it comes to raw power

Like the last Video THE SLAB you would NEVER even think about attempting that with a hub motor it would TORCH from over heating almost as soon as you started up that SLAB you might make it a little ways if you get a running start but it wouldn't last long then you STOP. THEN WHAT do you do.

PS: A 3000 w or better hub motor would do the climb but now we are talking more about an ELECTRIC Dirt-bike than a normal everyday use eBike
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
and of course ...the Slab!

Good grief... 100 meters at a 75% gradient = 37' degrees! ;)

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PDoz

Well-Known Member
With that steep of grade and loose gravel I would NOT consider ANY bike on the market no matter who makes it unless its a MID DRIVE ONLY.

So you wouldn't consider a stealth bike?


For what it's worth, I regularly climb a technical section of trail with a 1/1 incline on my feeble 250 w giant mid drive - it's not just steep , there are rocks to negotiate and plenty of loose stones. I've seen a stealth tear up through there like a well ridden motorbike. Not my thing, but that stealth gets much better chain life than my giant . Definitely not my thing, though - give me lighter bikes with less power any day.
 

ghmb

New Member
Hey guys, wow I really appreciate all the insights, Wisdom = seeking counsel from experienced folks. Awesome forum! FYI Since we live on a hilltop with lots of field grass, I had to get a tractor that could handle the slopes:

 

vincent

Well-Known Member
Wow that is crazy lol

while any of the higher end mid drives may make it up there i would still go with a bbshd or ultra motor
think they will do it faster, if you want to work harder just turn the pas down to 1
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
A 1000w motor does not need to run wide open. You have the option of slowing it down. The smaller (250w) motor does not have the option of increased power....
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
And a car will even be faster. Americans are addicted to power.

Guilty as charged! As a 300 lb rider, I appreciate a bike with the stones to provide some performance. What I have found though, is the bigger motors are not always hungrier. A 1000w will use no more power than a 250w (ALL else being equal) until it gets to the point where it's developing more power than a 250w is capable of. It's only at that point where it starts consuming more power that the 250w. did.

In my memories going back into the muscle car days, you could not say that about cars. With e-bikes, it's more like you can enjoy the cake and eat it too!
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
Guilty as charged! As a 300 lb rider, I appreciate a bike with the stones to provide some performance. What I have found though, is the bigger motors are not always hungrier. A 1000w will use no more power than a 250w (ALL else being equal) until it gets to the point where it's developing more power than a 250w is capable of. It's only at that point where it starts consuming more power that the 250w. did.

In my memories going back into the muscle car days, you could not say that about cars. With e-bikes, it's more like you can enjoy the cake and eat it too!
Well yes but most likely you will use it. My Bosch with a puny 500 watt 36v battery will go almost twice the distance as my 500 watt 52v 670 watt dapu midrive bike that one I would only get about 14 or so miles in full assist. I could spin at 20 mph where the Bosch I have to work a little but I get about 25 miles on the Bosch.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I have a MAC 12t geared rear hub installed in a RAD City. They're rated at anywhere from 500w to 1500w depending on where you are reading. That motor allows about 30% more battery life in every day recreational riding as compared to the original 750w (?) motor, and a 1500w direct drive motor that replaced the 750w. (easy 35 mile range vs. 25 on the earlier DD motors). This is using a 650ah or so battery.

Faced with a bigger hill or a busy intersection, oh heck yes I use it! The rest of the time it's kind of loafing along in PAS 1 using less than a hundred watts....
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
Lol 25 miles!!!! I don’t consider that very efficient
don’t think I’ve ever owned an ebike- even my old ones with eight amp hour batteries and 36 V -that did not get at least 30-35 miles to the battery, with throttles

If any of my bikes were getting 25 miles to the battery I would freak out
It sounds like on your smaller motor you are burning up a lot more power than I am

I agree with nothing wrong with having the power for when you do need it or want it

If you don’t need it or want it turn the power down lol

And totally disagree that just because it’s there you use more of it- maybe you do, but I don’t
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
Two months ago all I could do is spin if I pushed at all I would be wobbly after my ride. Now I can push a bit. The Bosch is so efficient I don’t need more power. I maybe 1 mile a hour or a faster on the 500 watt bike but that’s about it but it goes through batteries so much faster
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
My lesson learned Vincent, is that at my weight, while recreational riding, putting around in a coastal area with rolling hills, the direct drive rear hubs have no place in my life. Unless I'm on a level paved surface, they always seem to be struggling, like a dog panting in warm weather. The gear drive rear hub is not only peppier by quite a bit, it's WAY more efficient. It's not real hard for me to imagine that a mid drive, with all the available gear ratios, would be even more so.
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
Funny thing is I have zero idea what type of hub motors mine have been or are now...
If I was to buy another hub motor bike that wasn’t just a cheap folder for friends to ride etc. I would do a lot of research on this and consider doing a build

But I am clueless on what my hub drives have been....
They are mostly 500-750watt bafang, my first gen rad rover seemed to do pretty good for me in the hills but I learned how to use the power etc also

But it did not climb like my yamaha bikes do

And then they don’t climb like my wattwagon, of course it has way more wattage

I am heavy like 220 and carry everything and the kitchen sink with me when I ride lol
None of my bikes were built light and then I load them heavy, poor things


I ride lower speeds than some people and that helps my mileage a lot
 

Pharroh

New Member
So you wouldn't consider a stealth bike?


For what it's worth, I regularly climb a technical section of trail with a 1/1 incline on my feeble 250 w giant mid drive - it's not just steep , there are rocks to negotiate and plenty of loose stones. I've seen a stealth tear up through there like a well ridden motorbike. Not my thing, but that stealth gets much better chain life than my giant . Definitely not my thing, though - give me lighter bikes with less power any day.
First of all a Stealth is NOT actually a bicycle in the sense of one its really an Electric dirt bike it just has pedals so it can ride on the road. from point a to b,

I will still prefer my Ultra or BBSHD over yous any day of the week because you can NOT add more POWER to yours if you need it All i have to do is just go up slowly I do not have to use all its power to go up the hill but its NICE to know its there if EVER i need it but you on the other hand DO NOT have that option.
 

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Pharroh

New Member
Well yes but most likely you will use it. My Bosch with a puny 500 watt 36v battery will go almost twice the distance as my 500 watt 52v 670 watt dapu midrive bike that one I would only get about 14 or so miles in full assist. I could spin at 20 mph where the Bosch I have to work a little but I get about 25 miles on the Bosch.

That is HORRIBLE mileage I get at LEAST on either bike and I mostly use assist 1 or 2 and get over 50 miles on either of my bikes . something is wrong with yours in some way or other . Mine are both 48V 17ah BBSHD & Ultra 1000w and I actuially went 63 mile one day and when I got home I had 17% battery left

I use them for exercise and ( Health Reasons ) I do about 15-25 miles a day on most days but some are shorter distances according to weather if not to cold
 

PDoz

Well-Known Member
First of all a Stealth is NOT actually a bicycle in the sense of one its really an Electric dirt bike it just has pedals so it can ride on the road. from point a to b,

I will still prefer my Ultra or BBSHD over yous any day of the week because you can NOT add more POWER to yours if you need it All i have to do is just go up slowly I do not have to use all its power to go up the hill but its NICE to know its there if EVER i need it but you on the other hand DO NOT have that option.

The guys who run stealth are very much cyclists, they may have slipped farther down the motorbike slope than most of us are comfortable with, but a stealth p7 is more bicycle than your ultra or bbshd in pretty much every country except the us. ( at least from a stretching the legal definition perspective ) . Again, not my thing. I'm a strong believer in the joys of conservative ebikes that allow widespread acceptance and trail access. At the end of the day, I'm perfectly happy riding my puny but legal 250 w giant pretty much everywhere I like in Australia. It has more than enough torque to test traction / geometry / my skillset. I'm yet to find a situation where lack of power prevents me getting up a hill - it's either traction, flipping, or fear that stops me.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Funny thing is I have zero idea what type of hub motors mine have been or are now...
If I was to buy another hub motor bike that wasn’t just a cheap folder for friends to ride etc. I would do a lot of research on this and consider doing a build

But I am clueless on what my hub drives have been....
They are mostly 500-750watt bafang, my first gen rad rover seemed to do pretty good for me in the hills but I learned how to use the power etc also

But it did not climb like my yamaha bikes do

And then they don’t climb like my wattwagon, of course it has way more wattage

I am heavy like 220 and carry everything and the kitchen sink with me when I ride lol
None of my bikes were built light and then I load them heavy, poor things


I ride lower speeds than some people and that helps my mileage a lot

Bafang = gear drive