KT Controller/Display on a Pace 500?

Timpo

Well-Known Member
hmm.. ok I thought Higo and Julet were both clones of another brand connector, but were all interchangeable, but I dont' really know. 1000watt and above motors usually have a larger connector that can handle the increased load without melting. The 8/9 pin I was talking about for the display just goes to a harness that splits into 4 or 5 plugs for the display, brakes, throttle, etc. I think the extra plug on the 9->5 is for headlights. My bike has the 8->4 version, so if I match it I wouldn't need to swap it out. Not a major consideration, but one less thing to do. The final plug on the harness for the display on either is the same 5 pin I think. I guess it's possible Aventon has their own pinouts for each plug, so it may be best to swap out the harness either way. If they switched them around Idk if it would be in the harness or at the controller.

Otherwise, I think the 20A version of Bafangs controller is the way to go. My bike motor is supposed to be rated at 500 watts.
Okay so it says 10A nominal and 20A max.

The stock Aventon says 500W nominal and 750W max.

So with the Eunorau 20A controller, it will be 480W nominal, 960W max.
I guess you would see some gains? 🤔
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
hmm.. ok I thought Higo and Julet were both clones of another brand connector, but were all interchangeable, but I dont' really know. 1000watt and above motors usually have a larger connector that can handle the increased load without melting. The 8/9 pin I was talking about for the display just goes to a harness that splits into 4 or 5 plugs for the display, brakes, throttle, etc. I think the extra plug on the 9->5 is for headlights. My bike has the 8->4 version, so if I match it I wouldn't need to swap it out. Not a major consideration, but one less thing to do. The final plug on the harness for the display on either is the same 5 pin I think. I guess it's possible Aventon has their own pinouts for each plug, so it may be best to swap out the harness either way. If they switched them around Idk if it would be in the harness or at the controller.

Otherwise, I think the 20A version of Bafangs controller is the way to go. My bike motor is supposed to be rated at 500 watts.
My mistake, they're Z910 and Z916.
I believe the higher output connector would be Higo L10 or L1019.

I think Bolton 35A controllers still have Z916/Z910?
 

eRicken

New Member
Region
USA
Okay so it says 10A nominal and 20A max.

The stock Aventon says 500W nominal and 750W max.

So with the Eunorau 20A controller, it will be 480W nominal, 960W max.
I guess you would see some gains? 🤔
Idk about gains. I just saw this one was rated for 500 watt motors vs. the 1000 watt motor recommendation of the 25A controller. Would there be any benefit using the larger controller?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Idk about gains. I just saw this one was rated for 500 watt motors vs. the 1000 watt motor recommendation of the 25A controller. Would there be any benefit using the larger controller?
Yes, you will gain more power.
The power is not determined by the motor itself, it's determined by the controller.

That's why RadRover for example, has a 350W(or 500W?) motor with 750W rated controller, making it a 750W ebike.
Overvolting is a common practice among manufactures as it can be done relatively safely.

Juiced for example, started with 350W motor, however without doing anything they upgraded the controller to 650W, ultimately making it 750W.

RadRover with Bolton upgrade with "Real 750W" motor.

Overvolting ebikes
 

Pokerdogg

Member
Yes, you will gain more power.
The power is not determined by the motor itself, it's determined by the controller.

That's why RadRover for example, has a 350W(or 500W?) motor with 750W rated controller, making it a 750W ebike.
Overvolting is a common practice among manufactures as it can be done relatively safely.

Juiced for example, started with 350W motor, however without doing anything they upgraded the controller to 650W, ultimately making it 750W.

RadRover with Bolton upgrade with "Real 750W" motor.

Overvolting ebikes
I am confused. I thought the 25A controller has higher current, not higher voltage. Over volting is increasing the voltage, not current?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I am confused. I thought the 25A controller has higher current, not higher voltage. Over volting is increasing the voltage, not current?
Oops, okay I did confuse you, I guess what I meant by "overvolting" is used as in, "upgraded controller" but yeah you're right, you won't be increasing the voltage.
So precisely speaking, I was talking about increased current in this case.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
FYI, the circuit board in my 6 FET 20A KT controller is 54 x 88 mm, and the electrolytic caps are 26mm from their top to the opposite side of the circuit board. The case height is 36 mm, so one could save 10 mm there. but you still need a 30 x 55 space to enclose a potted controller with heat sink.

If you want more current, they do have a 9FET 25A controller that could be mounted on the frame in a plastic case. Picture of my wife's 2nd bike with the case mounted controller,
engine-1.jpg

What's the purpose, to have an unlocked system? With 48V, these KT units will probably get you up to 24-25 mph on throttle, while Aventon holds you to 20 mph? I'm not a speed fanatic, so the 20A controllers are enough, but if you want some headroom, I think a 25A unit is an external case is a better choice. One can dial the the current in the display settings to set the PAS speeds lower, if desired. It doesn't affect what the throttle can deliver.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Not sure it got ironed out in the above, but HIGO and Julet connectors are interchangeable. One is slightly different than the other resulting in a more-snug (really snug) connection, but thats it. They are both conforming to a '6mm' connector standard


I used to have this seller make custom cables for me before COVID when he shut down sales outside of the EU. He's an excellent source for quality product and has a bunch of stuff pre-made and sold from inventory.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Not sure it got ironed out in the above, but HIGO and Julet connectors are interchangeable. One is slightly different than the other resulting in a more-snug (really snug) connection, but thats it. They are both conforming to a '6mm' connector standard


I used to have this seller make custom cables for me before COVID when he shut down sales outside of the EU. He's an excellent source for quality product and has a bunch of stuff pre-made and sold from inventory.
We're not talking about Higo/Julet connectors for displays, cadence sensor, shift sensor and brake inhibitors.
Yes they're interchangeable.

But we're talking about the motor.
Higo
HiGo Z910 Motor Connectors


Julet
Julet Z916 Motor Connectors
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Right... the KT controllers that are 500w/25a or less use the Z910. The ones 30a+ use the Z916. Exceptions to this might be the Bolton/Rad upgrade controllers where Rad gave their motors the big plug despite their being 500w motor cores.

KT also sells controllers that are square wave or sine wave and thats the only difference. voltage/amperage is identical.

This seller has a lot of KT products and at least purports to actually be KT. Maybe there are more options to consider here. They do show the dimensions of their three most-common sizes in the imagery.

 
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Timpo

Well-Known Member
Right... the KT controllers that are 500w/25a or less use the Z910. The ones 30a+ use the Z916. Exceptions to this might be the Bolton/Rad upgrade controllers where Rad gave their motors the big plug despite their being 500w motor cores.

KT also sells controllers that are square wave or sine wave and thats the only difference. voltage/amperage is identical.

This seller has a lot of KT products and at least purports to actually be KT. Maybe there are more options to consider here.

I don't think we're talking about KT controller anymore because it won't (likely) fit inside of the frame of Aventon Pace 500.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I don't think we're talking about KT controller anymore because it won't (likely) fit inside of the frame of Aventon Pace 500.
Are you guys counting the small size units that are 17a? I've been trying to follow and it looks like the size chosen was the mid-size controller, and thats the one that is a bit too big. The small controller shown in that ad I linked is 52mm wide x 30mm high by 80mm long. I have one in my controller box in my garage - its a 48v/20a unit for an aftermarket Sondors upgrade. Unfortunately Luna just sold out of them recently (so the OP would have to do an Ali buy to get that size), but I can measure the thing to get a reality check on the reported controller size if that would help.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Are you guys counting the small size units that are 17a? I've been trying to follow and it looks like the size chosen was the mid-size controller, and thats the one that is a bit too big. The small controller shown in that ad I linked is 52mm wide x 30mm high by 80mm long. I have one in my controller box in my garage - its a 48v/20a unit for an aftermarket Sondors upgrade. Unfortunately Luna just sold out of them recently (so the OP would have to do an Ali buy to get that size), but I can measure the thing to get a reality check on the reported controller size if that would help.
yeah but that one is only 14A max, 7A nominal.
I think the OP is looking for somewhere around 20A to 25A ish?
I said I think because I'm not sure.
 

eRicken

New Member
Region
USA
Sorry, I didn't mean to abandon my thread, real life pulled me away for a bit.

I wasn't able to cancel my orders - they sellers got them shipped first thing Monday. So the KT controller & display will be coming my way regardless. I can still return them after they arrive in 2+ weeks, but harryS' post gives me hope. The controller that is coming is the 22A model, so hopefully the guts of it won't be too much bigger than the 20A. I should be able to work with a controller that is 26x54x88 mm. If not, I guess I'll have to look at putting on an external box or going with the Bafang controllers. Probably Bafang at that point if the return shipping isn't too expensive.

One more thing I found with the Bafang is that it has a 3 pin brake sensor and my current brakes have 2 pins. Not sure if that would be a simple rewiring job, or if I'd need new brake sensors. The brakes are hydraulic, so it would be more involved than with cable brakes I'd think.

edit -> here's the link to the controller I bought (the 22A option): https://ebay.us/SJLKQy
 
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eRicken

New Member
Region
USA
As far as my original intent - I picked up one of the last Aventon Paces that had their old controller without realizing it. The PAS 1 & 2 settings are a bit too strong and the throttle only engages if you are pedaling. Which doesn't sound so bad, but it also means it won't engage if you pause pedaling while going down a hill, or are using the throttle, then let off for some reason. I can't quite figure out how the throttle would ever be useful.

They have an upgrade kit, but once I started thinking about the settings, I realized I would want it different from their new settings anyway. And with the KT setup, I'm still about $30 less than the cost of the upgrade kit.

I didn't really think about making the motor more powerful, though I wouldn't mind it. Not too many hills around me have made me shift to a lower gear, but power is always good. I stopped at 22A for the KT controllers mostly because of the size issue and because I thought the 17A would be too weak.