KTM E-Race P 27.5

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
Another new bike thread. :)

After owning both the Haibike, and KTM Macina Lycan GPS + I have come to the conclusion that as efficient as they are, I still really enjoy hub drive bikes.

With this in mind, I have decided that the time has come to go back to hub drive, and have just ordered a 2015 KTM E-Race P 27.5

I wanted a hard tail and wanted a 2015 model year bike, that has the 562wh battery over last years superb 412wh version. In the frame size that I require, production has not yet started, so the bike will be on back order with expected delivery mid Feb.


http://www.ktm-bikes.at

eRace_P_27_48_black_matt(white_orange).jpg
 
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Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
First off were either of you mid-drive e-bikes unlocked, or limited to ridiculous European standards 15 mph (24 K)? I personally swapped a 500 watt 28 mph (45 K) hardtail for a full suspension Haibike knowing full well that I would unlock it or sell it. 30 mph (48 K) is pretty easy now and I really like the other features of the bike like hydro brakes and tapered headtube/stiff frame. The balance of the bike is great too.

Now if I were a bit younger and seeking big thrills I would build a bike capable of 50 mph (80 K), why be limited to production bikes when DIY is not all that difficult, at least not here is the U.S.

Of course it all comes down to preferences, so please don't feel attacked by my comments and query - whatever floats your boat. -S
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
Don't worry I don't feel attacked. :)

Fitting a dongle or other tuning device would mean that I wouldn't be able to enter the organised mtb events that I take part in. I'm also actually pretty happy with this restricted performance set up off road. :)
 
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biknut

Active Member
I'm totally in the hub drive over mid camp. For a bicycle I don't see the point in mid drive. Too many parts to wear out. Too much noise. The only advantage I can see is weight distribution is a little better, but for most riding, who cares?

Mid drive is lame attempt to get power, and acceleration out of a bike with power output restrictions. Without those artificial restrictions hub drive makes the better bicycle.
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
Two days to go and counting!

These things are seemingly as rare as rocking horse pooh. This has been one very long wait.
Having ridden and reviewed the road bike version, I already know that the wait will have been worth it.
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
I finally got around to taking the KTM e-Race P out for quick spin/test ride, and I had forgotten about just how much fun and easy that hub drive bikes are to ride.. )

I've used the same 18 mile test route, which has 1,504ft of elevation gain, for all of the bikes to date, and returned home from today's, to discover that I trashed countless of my previous Strava KOM's and beaten all previous best efforts. (Yes I did change the ride immediately to e-bike ride, so removing it from the system stats) All without even trying.

Admittedly the bike may have felt so much quicker and smoother, because the crank drive Lycan is wearing a set of Hutchinson mud terrain tyres that seemingly weigh a tonne, well 1,020g each before tubeless sealant, and with only 25psi in them, the bike is very draining to ride on the road above the legal cut off point. I guess that is the price that you pay for having phenomenal grip on wet knarly tree roots. It is actually quite surprising, what a negative effect that a set of tyres can also have on battery life. I guess that there is far more drag and weight, which in turn means that I am also using more assist than I might otherwise have done. A small price to pay for staying upright.

From the off, the acceleration was super smooth, with no real attention to gear change required. I'd say that the noise of the Panasonic hub could actually be a touch louder than the Bosch mid drive, but I really couldn't swear to it.

I'd also forgotten about an aspect of hub drives that I really enjoy, and that is the very brief fraction of over run that they afford when you stop pedalling. It might only be a split second, but for off road use, it comes in very handy when negotiating a section where perhaps you can't get a full pedal stroke, or don't want to pedal for some other reason, such as in short sections of deep mud. That extra little kick of power and cheat can and does make a difference.

My little road only test route takes in a sensible and varied terrain, and from the off, each time that I have ridden it, the highest power setting is used for the duration. The reason being that at 18 miles long, I'd expect any bike to be able to complete such a ride and still have some in reserve. In the case of today, the Panasonic battery had just dropped to three bars from the five available. Not in any way scientific, but it is isn't a bad base marker for comparisons. It isn't meant for negative comparison between bikes, just a pleasant way to give real world expectation of range from any given/ridden bike, with a reasonably fit 75kg rider. I seem to recall that the BH nearly failed complete the ride in standard mode!

The ride takes in country roads/lanes and one 'A' road, but annoyingly I had five sets of traffic lights to contend with. Only mentioned as upon my return, even with having to stop briefly, my ride time was the quickest to date. Perhaps I'm fitter than I used to be, who knows. One thing was for sure, this bike was just so easy to ride at between 18-25mph on the flat.

Making the route as varied as possible, it has a few climbs one of which is shown below. On the Bosch Macina, I am in second gear by the two thirds point, and always hope that I don't have to venture into first, although I haven't yet. A swap from the 11-36 cassette to 11-42 would change that aspect of things, so in many respects comparisons on the hill are pointless, but useful when gauging average range.
Today it was tackled using the middle chain set, and mid way down on the rear cassette. The hill felt almost effortless, actually it was effortless, with a chilled and relaxed average ride speed of 12.2mph for the 1 mile climb. I need to check, but by memory and really going for it on a non test route ride, that the BH averaged close to 15.5mph. I'd expect the same to be achievable with the Panasonic system. My own fitness could be the deciding factor with that one.

Oddly the system did give a blip towards the top of the climb, with the display flashing and a reduction on power. An on the move re boot, cleared whatever it was. The system turns on and off in seconds, so no walking off to make a hot drink, when compared with the Bosch Nyon system.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Video link for the climb. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=663204C2E672F6B6208B663204C2E672F6B6208B

Sadly the ride was over way to soon, but I know look forward to getting out and putting some winter road and off road miles in on the bike, and I'll return to this thread at some stage in the future to report how I feel about both motor systems and how I perceive the flaws and benefits of each.

I'll add the technical details of both systems a little later when I find them again!

A review of the bike will be written in due course., but first impressions are very good, although I would have designed a couple of things in relation to the Panasonic system slightly differently.

z1ebr.jpg z2ebr.jpg z3ebr.jpg z4ebr.jpg z5ebr.jpg z6ebr.jpg
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
I'm hoping that this one is a stay clean bike. :) I've had it for two weeks or more, and yesterday was the first time of riding it, due to wet roads. It must be bad!!! :D

I like hub drive and the relaxed ride that they give, and wanted something that would be nice for Sunday morning leisure riding along country lanes etc, plus a bit of commuting, but could still be used when 'dry' conditions permit for very light off road use. I need to make a few minor adjustments, but first impressions are very good.

I've also just been looking at road tyres, and mudguards (fenders?) but will hold off on this.
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
Test One


The sun was shining this morning, and with the Macina Lycan pulled down for a major overhaul, I decided to take the KTM e-Race P out for a ride today instead. The battery was showing four out it's five battery bar levels, and I figured that I would just do a 20 mile loop and back home again.

I opted to complete this ride in eco and set off to complete what turned out to be a 45 mile ride instead of 20 mile ride. I had hoped to reach the 50 mile point, but it became very windy, and started to hail and rain heavily, so I called it a day.

Strava link. https://www.strava.com/activities/488059846 and image below

15c.jpg


The route consisted of 3,858ft of elevation gain, an average speed of 12.1mph, and a fastest speed of 42.3mph.

I was truly surprised at how frugal the battery consumption was. As said, I started with four bars showing out of five available, and from this start point, the first bar dropped at almost exactly the 30 mile point. The second bar dropped, almost at the point of reaching home. But being truthful I had been putting in a fair bit of effort in on some of the many hills to maintain the eco setting, and I did waiver at the 40 mile point, and just put the bike in the auto setting to recoup some of my own energy.
I'm just very impressed that this kind of range is achievable when pushed, and with so little battery consumption. Sadly my knees wouldn't hack much more than 50 miles, whatever the circumstances, but I'd love to know what would be achievable by just using eco setting alone, on such varied terrain.



15a.jpg

Two worthy causes. The Cats Protection, and my stomach! (Not in that order)

15b.jpg

The poor bike, didn't look so clean after this ride. That's three bikes that now require cleaning!:(

Test two

I decided to stay local today and see how the performance measured up using the 'standard' power setting. A boring 24 miles completed, using 50 % of the battery capacity, and all without traveling much more than a mile or so from my house. I must have been bored!!!!

23.9 miles completed
2,383ft of elevation gain
Average speed 12.1mph, which surprised me given how much stopping and turning that I did.
Max speed 29.3mph, not sure where that one came from either!

https://www.strava.com/activities/493214926

15d.jpg


15e.jpg


Point to note. The tests detailed above take into account my own fitness level, be that good, bad or average, and the input that I put into the rides. But at 49yrs old and weighing 75kg, I do consider that knee and muscle wastage aside, that I am of a good level of fitness.
 
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EddieJ

Well-Known Member
I skipped some household chores this afternoon, to pop out in the freezing cold wind, in order to have another play.

For this afternoons test, I left the bike in 'auto' for today's 34.5 mile ride, which had an elevation gain of 2,962' The bike returned with two bars of battery level remaining, out of the five available.

https://www.strava.com/activities/503582754

ktm e-race P.jpg
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
Sadly now sold to a good friend.

Although it was possibly the best hill climbing bike that I have ever ridden, the prospect of having two separate battery systems is not a viable one, and there is no way that you could ever sensibly carry a spare Panasonic battery either.

Before buying the bike, I went out for roughly a 20 mile ride with the friend that bought it, and boy was I shattered by the time that we got back! I had been riding the Macina Lycan with it's Bosch motor, and the Panasonic hub powered e-Race P just left me for dead on every hill. The motor is that good. Admittedly my tyres didn't help matters, but even if they had been like for like, I still wouldn't have kept up.

I already miss it. :(
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
eddie i really enjoy reading your threads

you sound very fit to me, those are some long rides with big hills and elevation changes

you also sound very knowledgeable about bicycles, interesting reading

so what are you going to buy now?
 

EddieJ

Well-Known Member
Many thanks for the kind words Vincent. I'd be out the bike all the time if I had the chance. :)

The biggest elevation gain in a single ride was 6,362 ft over a distance of 10.9 miles. I'm back in the same area again later in the year, and hope to increase this amount still further.

Ref the bikes... I have the Bosch CX powered full suspension and hardtail, but the fs bike is being used less and less, but I am currently toying with the idea of pulling it apart, having it resprayed and making it look rather trick. Time will tell. :) Beyond that, there are no other bikes out that that hold any interest to me.
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
i love the look of the ktm bikes and it impresses me that you thought they were so high quality

but i am dead set on a throttle override bike for various reasons- loading on racks, ramps, just general back up

i like to ride very casually for some exercise nothing like you are doing , so i will probably never be fit enough/experienced to handle one of the bosch mid drives etc

wish they had throttle although i know the more serious bikers dont think they are needed, and for them/you i am sure they are not

will be interested to see what you do/buy next!