Lightest ebike kit from Bikee Bike

Hi guys,

I'm Matteo from Bikee Bike.

I created this post to answer your questions about the new system we're launching. Also I welcome suggestions, heads up and different points of view. Please feel free to ask for more info, you'll be able to get most of them on the dedicated website: www.lightest.bike .

I'm also attaching the spec sheet of the different versions.

I really appreciate your support,
Thanks,
Matteo
 

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basta77

New Member
What a beautiful piece of italian genius.

When do You think the campaign will start?

Cheers Ferdi
 

oojoe

Member
so I noticed that the main shaft of the unit would have to hold the toque/weight of a rider standing on the pedals(if back wheel does not move) ..whats the diameter of that shaft? looks like some big boys could cause issues with design ? am I wrong? or in real life would the chain just slip...???
 
Hi Oojoe, the main shaft of the unit has to withstand the torque of the cyclist which is reduced by a factor of 3. The weight is held by the bottom bracket of the bike. That shaft is high strenght steel of 15mm diameter so there won't be any problem with that. the chain won't slip because there's a good wrap.
 

oojoe

Member
I quote you as saying "the torque of the cyclist which is reduced by a factor of 3. "..really where did that toque (energy) go and what a great loss of energy ....anyway ...
 
The torque is reduced because of the different tooth count as in any transmission, but the speed is multiplied by the same factor so there's no power loss apart the standard power loss in any chain transmission. Actually in terms of strain is the pull which counts and that's not demultiplied by the different tooth count. At the end of the day, the motor sprocket is designed to withstand a big guy!
 

TakO

New Member
I'm excited to see this one in action!

Is the "1000W no battery" option a "Superhero version"?

I'm very curious about the responsiveness to the torque sensing and how it compares to other motors. That's the catch with new things. We won't really know until we get it.

I may have to pick one up. :)
 

EMGX

Member
Hi guys,

I'm Matteo from Bikee Bike.

I created this post to answer your questions about the new system we're launching. Also I welcome suggestions, heads up and different points of view. Please feel free to ask for more info, you'll be able to get most of them on the dedicated website: www.lightest.bike .

I'm also attaching the spec sheet of the different versions.

I really appreciate your support,
Thanks,
Matteo

do you think it would work on this bike, a Dahon Briza? I wouldn't care if the bike can't be folded. I'm most interested in torque for hills for my wife's use. I have a bike with a Yamaha mid drive that has 70nm torque which would be plenty for her but it appears that stated torque doesn't match performance for all brands - do you know if yours would yours approximate the torque/hill climbing performance of the Yamaha?

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tomdav

Well-Known Member
See equivalent torque numbers in the OP. The 250W version has similar torque to your Yamaha PW and more peak power. The higher watt versions should come closer to a BBSHD:



Trying to imagine clearance for your wife's bike. Here is the installation video.


There are four different installation options but I believe you need to "sign up" to see the indegogo preview. Here's my referral link if you want to join and get updates.

Also may be tricky where to put the battery with all the curves but I'm sure it's doable, probably with their smaller battery option.
 

EMGX

Member
See equivalent torque numbers in the OP. The 250W version has similar torque to your Yamaha PW and more peak power. The higher watt versions should come closer to a BBSHD:



Trying to imagine clearance for your wife's bike. Here is the installation video.


There are four different installation options but I believe you need to "sign up" to see the indegogo preview. Here's my referral link if you want to join and get updates.

Also may be tricky where to put the battery with all the curves but I'm sure it's doable, probably with their smaller battery option.
Thanks, I was aware of the stated/advertised torque of the motor (30nm) and the stated effective torque at the rear wheel. The issue is that advertised torque doesn't seem to always correspond to performance. For example the tongsheng mid drive stated torque is 80nm but some reviews indicate that the torque seems lacking relative to claimed torque.
From the web site it appears that a 9t drive sprocket could be substituted for the (standard?) 12t sprocket to increase effective torque at cost of top speed. I watched the installation video, it isn't clear to me if the components will line up properly on the Dahon Briza and there are several other bikes with similar structure, not all of them folding.
 
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Deacon Blues

Well-Known Member
I'm not quite sure how this motor is held in place. It looks to me that the force of pedaling and the rotation of the chain would try and push the motor downwards. Hopefully, they've designed a stout bracket to keep the motor in place.
One thing I really don't like about this motor is how little the chain actually makes contact with the chain ring. It's less than half of the circumference of the chain ring. I admit I'm not an engineer, but this just doesn't look right to me.
 

EMGX

Member
I'm not quite sure how this motor is held in place. It looks to me that the force of pedaling and the rotation of the chain would try and push the motor downwards. Hopefully, they've designed a stout bracket to keep the motor in place.
One thing I really don't like about this motor is how little the chain actually makes contact with the chain ring. It's less than half of the circumference of the chain ring. I admit I'm not an engineer, but this just doesn't look right to me.
I'm not an engineer or bike mechanic either but I have the same thought, and the motor brackets only appear to be held in place by the cassette in the bottom bracket. I once had a bottom bracket cassette that had a plastic cup retainer, I'm not sure that the cassette retainers are all that sturdy for this application but I'm not qualified to say in any case. It doesn't look like it would work for my application anyway. It will be interesting to hear how it works out for early adopters.
 

tomdav

Well-Known Member
Seems you may have the ability to turn torque sensing on / off (at least it's disabled for one of the mount options). Depending on the type of riding I'm doing I sometimes prefer cadence sensing only. Matteo, can you confirm this is easily configurable by the app?

Edit: Matteo, can you also clarify top speed for the 750/1000W motor? In the comparison to BBSHD it's showing 31 mph. But in the first chart above it indicates 25 mph. Perhaps the former is with a larger sprocket but then what is the comparable torque? BBSHD torque is rated at 160 nm which is obviously much more than the 90 nm implied in the first chart. Are things really apples to apples in the chart comparing to BBSHD or are you showing best case for speed and torque with different sprockets in the BBSHD comparison?
 
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I'm excited to see this one in action!

Is the "1000W no battery" option a "Superhero version"?

I'm very curious about the responsiveness to the torque sensing and how it compares to other motors. That's the catch with new things. We won't really know until we get it.

I may have to pick one up. :)
Hi TakO, yes,
The Superhero pack is an optional electronic board which you can get on any Lightest motor: you'll find that option after you'll have selected you perk ( by clicking on the "GET THIS PERK" button), in the CHECKOUT section. This electronic board will be attached to the controller and will communicate with your smartphone by Bluetooth, enabling you to get endless customization parameters..


do you think it would work on this bike, a Dahon Briza? I wouldn't care if the bike can't be folded. I'm most interested in torque for hills for my wife's use. I have a bike with a Yamaha mid drive that has 70nm torque which would be plenty for her but it appears that stated torque doesn't match performance for all brands - do you know if yours would yours approximate the torque/hill climbing performance of the Yamaha?
Hi EMGX, if you don't have to fold it, probably the long mount will work for you. Please find attached all the mounting plates for the different configurations. You can print in 1:1 scale the attached drawings ( you can verify that by the scale on the printed drawings) and check whether it fits into the frame. No problem for the offset, by using different shims you’ll be able to get to the desired offset. About the torque, please see here the video of the system pulling a van. Talking about integrated mid drive, this little boy has more torque than a Brose.


I'm not quite sure how this motor is held in place. It looks to me that the force of pedaling and the rotation of the chain would try and push the motor downwards. Hopefully, they've designed a stout bracket to keep the motor in place.
One thing I really don't like about this motor is how little the chain actually makes contact with the chain ring. It's less than half of the circumference of the chain ring. I admit I'm not an engineer, but this just doesn't look right to me.
Hi Deacon, we saw no problem with the chain wrapping around the chainring. Rocky mountain is been using the same system for years on their production.


Seems you may have the ability to turn torque sensing on / off (at least it's disabled for one of the mount options). Depending on the type of riding I'm doing I sometimes prefer cadence sensing only. Matteo, can you confirm this is easily configurable by the app?

Edit: Matteo, can you also clarify top speed for the 750/1000W motor? In the comparison to BBSHD it's showing 31 mph. But in the first chart above it indicates 25 mph. Perhaps the former is with a larger sprocket but then what is the comparable torque? BBSHD torque is rated at 160 nm which is obviously much more than the 90 nm implied in the first chart. Are things really apples to apples in the chart comparing to BBSHD or are you showing best case for speed and torque with different sprockets in the BBSHD comparison?
Hi tomdav, Yes, you can turn the torque sensing on and off if you get the Superhero Pack ( see above) with the app.

About the speed, we recently have been able to pull out more torque. That's been a design change: we had the inner freewheel which limited the maximum torque. With more torque we can use a larger sprocket with the higher torque to achieve a higher speed. We made the comparison with the 12T sprocket on the Lightest and a 46T chainring on the Bafang. Is that apples to apples? Hard to tell.

Many of us asked whether the motor is silent, I'm posting her the raw footage of the van pull to let you appreciate the sound. You can compare the sound of the rope rubbing against the tire with the motor sound. Here's the video:

 

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minnemike

New Member
Pardon my ignorance... a little unfamiliar with mid drive installation issues.

Can it be installed easily on an electra townie 21D? Looks like I would lose the front derailleur completely and I would be fine with that if no other major issues involved other than removal. ALSO, I assume a single speed/single geared bike might not be the best choice for this? Does it rely on rear wheel gearing for its range of speed and torque? thanks
 

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basta77

New Member
And now the real question...
for the ones that wonder about the power of their next dream bike..
an inside photo of your prototype. :)
 
And now the real question...
for the ones that wonder about the power of their next dream bike..
an inside photo of your prototype. :)
Hi Basta, I appreciate the attempt, but of course we don't want to give our competitor the advantage of taking a look inside before it goes in production ;)

Pardon my ignorance... a little unfamiliar with mid drive installation issues.

Can it be installed easily on an electra townie 21D? Looks like I would lose the front derailleur completely and I would be fine with that if no other major issues involved other than removal. ALSO, I assume a single speed/single geared bike might not be the best choice for this? Does it rely on rear wheel gearing for its range of speed and torque? thanks
Hi Minniemike, the short mount with double chain should work for your Electra Townie.