LMT'D torque sensor bottom bracket

Mike N.

Active Member
I took my LMT'D to the local bike shop due to a creek in the bottom bracket. They did not have a bottom bracket wrench my size to purchase which is 44 mm 16 teeth if anyone is curious. They said they would take a look at it and they greased the bottom bracket for $15.00 which got rid of the creak. The problem was a few days later when I went for a ride the torque sensor was inop. Throttle worked fine but no pedal assist. I think they did not realize it was electrical component and pulled on it causing the black insulation to get pulled off.

There is a plug under the bottom of the battery tray to unplug first. I ordered the right size spanner on Amazon and removed it this evening. There are 6 wires under the insulation as you can see. I can't seem to feel any breaks but the red wire which I'm thinking is power has some of the copper showing through where the thin insulation has been scraped off. It might be coming in contact with the frame and grounding out. I'm going to try to reinsulate the wires and put it back to see if that fixes it. If not I have already contacted Alex at Ride1up support and they sell a replacement for $150.00 and shipping.

I do not blame the bicycle shop since they do not sell electric bikes. They were just treating it like an ordinary mechanical repair. I wish I had the right size bottom bracket wrench to begin with but now I know. I'll post to let you know if the repair works. If a wire has pulled out of the bracket itself then I'm pretty sure it is non repairable.

They sell liquid electrical tape so I'm thinking of trying that.

 

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Mike N.

Active Member
Repaired! I was giving myself very low odds on being able to repair it. Went to Lowell's this morning and purchased liquid tape and some shrink insulation but I did not use the shrink insulation. I saw some of the insulation was missing on the red power wire so just made sure all the wires were slightly separated and brushed on the insulation. Put everything back together and pushed down on the pedals and I had power.

The hardest part was reconnecting the plug to the wiring under the battery tray. They must hire children with small hands in China to reach it. It is a plug like the one going to the motor next to the chain so it will only attach one way.

While I had the bottom bracket off I removed the rubber covers of the sealed bearings and greased them good with synthetic grease. Couldn't hurt.

All well that ends well.
 

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Thombrad

New Member
Congratulations on your great work and success !! Did you happen to notice who the manufacturer of the BB torque sensor is ?
 

Fast n' Furious

Active Member
Region
USA
City
San Diego
I took my LMT'D to the local bike shop due to a creek in the bottom bracket. They did not have a bottom bracket wrench my size to purchase which is 44 mm 16 teeth if anyone is curious. They said they would take a look at it and they greased the bottom bracket for $15.00 which got rid of the creak. The problem was a few days later when I went for a ride the torque sensor was inop. Throttle worked fine but no pedal assist. I think they did not realize it was electrical component and pulled on it causing the black insulation to get pulled off.

There is a plug under the bottom of the battery tray to unplug first. I ordered the right size spanner on Amazon and removed it this evening. There are 6 wires under the insulation as you can see. I can't seem to feel any breaks but the red wire which I'm thinking is power has some of the copper showing through where the thin insulation has been scraped off. It might be coming in contact with the frame and grounding out. I'm going to try to reinsulate the wires and put it back to see if that fixes it. If not I have already contacted Alex at Ride1up support and they sell a replacement for $150.00 and shipping.

I do not blame the bicycle shop since they do not sell electric bikes. They were just treating it like an ordinary mechanical repair. I wish I had the right size bottom bracket wrench to begin with but now I know. I'll post to let you know if the repair works. If a wire has pulled out of the bracket itself then I'm pretty sure it is non repairable.

They sell liquid electrical tape so I'm thinking of trying that.

My renown for faux paus preceding me, it's been several months, but I'm curious to follow up and ask if the repair is holding up?
Those photo's are very helpful to anyone delving into the TS, like me.
Now that the Ltd's TS is discontinued, owners having to locate suitable replacements are a foreseeable event.
The TS appears to be generic, with specs ordered up by R1U. Perhaps they'll help us document and archive the info.
I appreciate your common sense approach/ solution/ attitude. Turning that shaft 1/4 turn will chop the wires clean off.
3.14150... (pi) x shaft diameter, per turn = 1" shaft, rotated 1/4 of a turn will 'pull' (rip) .7853" of wire.
Big kudos to the member that pointed out repetitive failures often indicate bad installation (to re-phrase it kindly).
Shops don't know. I learn from my mistakes - and whenever possible, the success or mistakes of others.

Ride on

Fn'F
 

Sic Puppy

Member
I decided that this is the best route for dealing with the torque sensor/cadence sensor crap:
https://arielrider.com/products/x-class-52v?variant=37498729857200
My $2,200US blue ebike is due to ship in 3 weeks. 52v/18ah battery. 36mph throttle-only top speed--Motorcycle tires are awaiting the arrival of this beast. Hell Yes. Check it out on YouTube.. As for the pos BikTrix SWIFT turd muncher ebike that is now selling for an absolutely unbelievable $2,700-- I paid $1,700 for mine 12 months ago. (What a frigging canadian RIP-OFF-- either way you look at it.):
I am gradually removing/salvaging the viable SWIFT parts/components (but, NOT the rear hub MXUS motor, controller, bottom bracket torque sensor unit, and cdu-- they will all go "down the terlet", where they belong) and the then the frame will be cut up and sent the recyclers. I used a magnet to verify that it's aluminum, and not steel. Ya just can't trust those peaky 3rd world Canucks..
 
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Fast n' Furious

Active Member
Region
USA
City
San Diego
Very nice. I research a lot. Buying the below Frey CC. Not for $2000 though. Current price is about $4300.
I feel ya about the junk on the market, but noting their advertising, for me that Ariel "X-class" is irreparably obsolete.
Not an e-bike, it's an electric motorcycle and cannot be used on the street without insurance and a license, safety checks etc.
I've highlighted in red what their web page says that I picked up on.
"We improve motor power and now use a 52V motor. Now using a 1000 Watt motor with improved torque and motor power. New Motor is able to reach 110 Nm torque thanks to our metal gear technology." "X-class has a special 1000 Watt Hub Motor. Outside looks same but inside everything is different than other hub motors. Motor is equipped with heavy duty clutch and metal gears which lets our motor to reach torque up to 110 Nm which is definitely industry leader. It will eat hills alive!"
The state of the art is center-drive, not hub types. "Metal gear technology" does not increase torque and "110nm" is not an "industry leader" standard.
Another thing, they avoid saying what type cells they are using. Read: Cheap Chinese knock-offs that don't last or meet the purported specs.
Caveat emptor. In e-bike advertising, what isn't said (or is avoided) is more important than what is.
Uh, what motor is in that X Class? They forgot to to tell you. It's an old motor with a steel gear replacing the shoddy plastic being force-fed more current.
The X-class' 35 amp controller means 17amps nominal. Go hot (peak 35A), motor rapidly overheats, circuit shuts it down.
It's the same motor designed to run half the current. You can put in stronger gears/ bearings, but more heat is more heat and that large efficiency loss is expressed as heat. Basically, the electricity is shorting and generating heat, or it's creating an electromagnetic field. The amount of 'field effect' created for a given amount of current is the efficiency.
That X-class motor has an efficiency 3.142nm per Amp current.
The Bafang generates 8nm per Amp - more than 250% better efficiency, meaning far less waste-heat for the same watts
What's telling is Ariel Rider brags on 110nm - using 35A.
The G620, which debuted in 2017 puts out 160nm - using a 20amp factory produced internal controller. Upgrading G620's controller is fairly easy - if you solder and know a bit. 2000watts is doable for a 200nm outcome. You can see the HUGE advance this motor is here:
https://www.electricbike.com/bafang-ultra-max/
If one insists on exceeding 30mph, that's easy. The bikes come with a dinky 36 tooth ring-gear. Change to 46 tooth for +29% speed increase = you'll see 40mph.
Company literature: "When needed X-Class motor can provide peak output of 2000 Watt power". Stop right there. How does a 35amp controller (1820 Watts MAX) put out 2000 Watts? I'd start verifying the claims Ariel makes. That one's impossible.
-
I'm buying either this or the EX model: https://electrek.co/2019/12/24/review-1-5-kw-frey-cc-full-suspension-electric-commuter-bike/
My search started with the goal of using the (hottest, but still street legal - sort of) motor of choice - currently - the Bafang (B510) G620 Ultra.
W/ 160nm torque, this bike pulls wheelies rated at 48v 750 x 1000watts.
That's 40% more efficient than Ariel's X-class motor, plus standardized parts you'll be able to find later as it's stock normal, not heavily tweaked.
The Frey also has a twist throttle, torque sensor and cadence PAS. Pick what you care to use and fly. Built in variable settings.
1624381017981.png

Motor: Bafang G510.1000 mid drive 48V 1000W
Battery: 48V/17.5Ah fit with 65pcs Samsung 3500mA cells.
Front fork: ROCKSHOX RECON 130-150mm Air suspension
Rear shock: ROCKSHOX MONARCH RL 165*38mm air suspension
Handlebar & Stem: Promax brand alloy mountain style.
Seat post: Promax brand alloy.
Brakes: MAGURA MT5 4-piston Hydraulic disc brakes
Transmission: SRAM X5 9S(34--40T) gear set.
Tire: Schwable moto-X 27.5*2.4” flat tire;

The EX mod (with two 14A batteries) includes
Motor: Bafang M620 mid drive 48V 1000W motor
Battery: Samsung 35E cells powered: dual battery system 2*48V14AH.
Front fork: ROCKSHOX LYRIK SEL+ 180mm Air suspension
Rear shock: ROCKSHOX DELUXE RL 205*65mm air suspension
Handlebar & Stem: Promax brand alloy mountain style.
Seat post: Promax brand alloy.
Brakes: MAGURA MT5 4-piston Hydraulic disc brakes
Transmission: SRAM NX 11 speed gears.
Tire: MAXXIS 27.5*2.8” mountain tire
Pedal: Wellgo alloy mountain style pedals.
1624389862502.png

This is the EX Pro (dual batteries). Check it out on YouTube, 10 feet airborne.
That fork, the rear suspension and the upgraded wheels/tires are worth more than the $900 additional price from the CC. The 11 Speed upgrade is useless for me. I'm installing a fat ring and intend to convert to Gates belt drive system w/ internal gearbox hub.
The Frey machines weigh in at 31 (CC), 31 (EX) and 35 kilos (EX Pro).
I don't get it that for the cost of an option on a car, people balk at spending $$$ for the right machine. A friggen GPS cost me $2500 on my Toyota Sienna. My budget is $5k.
The CC's currently selling for $3420 + 310 tax + 600 shipping costs = $4330.00 delivered.
These bikes are worth double what they cost. A $4000 Machine that stock will outperform any other stock, street legal machine made costing under $10k? Nothing stock, retailed in the USA even comes close, and best of all it's 100% plug-and-play upgradable. The Bafang wiring harness is all waterproof plugs and a couple cables, not a rat's nest of wires in a hot-glued mess. Routing is easy.
Note: Anyone interested, I have two other possible buyers. One more will bring the price down $240 each, plus I may be able to get reduced shipping and knock another hundred or so off. If you're in So-Cal and interested, contact me in San Diego.
If you want to go it alone, I can tell you the company is much friendlier than MAC or MXUS. No problem answering direct questions.
I suggest anyone interested do their own due diligence. Picky as I am, I find this company has a sterling rep for high quality and any feed back to the contrary is encouraged and invited.

As always,

I am Fn'F
 

Blasst

New Member
FREY is out of the front fork on the CC, and are looking at Dec for more stock of that part. You can still have the bike built and use your own fork of similar specs, according to FREY.

Did you order the EX yet?
 

Fast n' Furious

Active Member
Region
USA
City
San Diego
Change in plans. Account funded and ready to move - nagging voice said: "Better think again. You know you want a Ti build".
It was too expensive (+$5K), heavy (CC 30Kg) and a long wait (4 months). So it was buy an EX.
The idea of 50 and 200hr, F & R shock maintenance for my daily transpo turned me off and I couldn't upgrade/ reduce weight without dumping the whole frame/ batteries/ fork set, but my infatuation has always been hobbled by my 'built in battery' fixation.
I'm over it. I'm going with a Ti hardtail frame/ Ultra 1000watt powered build https://wattwagons.com/products/custom-frames that allows me to customize what I want. They even have a reasonable priced belt drive.
To me their engineering (proof of concept) with various combinations is priceless. No proprietary BS, 'cept the Ultra drive plate. Choices galore.
I'm impressed. So allocating more cash, getting a few specs down and I'll get this party started.
I'll post full results when they deliver.
They have a forum on EBR, their spokesman monitors and answers many questions. Worth checking if you're in the market.

Happy 4th and best regards,

Fn'F