Long Range E-Bikes ?

dodgeman

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Macomb, Illinois
I own a Trek Verve+3 with a single 500 watt battery. They have a way to add a second battery integrated into the system of the same size. I suspect depending on conditions 80 to 100 mikes would be possible, which is way more than my backside will take.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
I own a Trek Verve+3 with a single 500 watt battery. They have a way to add a second battery integrated into the system of the same size. I suspect depending on conditions 80 to 100 mikes would be possible, which is way more than my backside will take.
Perhaps it is just me, dodgeman, but I don't think 1000 Wh is enough for 80 miles ridden by an average e-biker in reasonable time.
 

mclewis1

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Fredericton, NB
80 miles/130km with a flat bar bike? - Optimistically figure on needing 7whr/km (assuming your in reasonable shape, riding with some care, and being as efficient as you can be). That translates to at least 1200whr of battery (assume you won't/can't drain the battery below 20% due to built in protections). At 48v that's 25amp/hr. So consider having at least that capacity regardless of whether you're looking at a single battery or two. Want to get away with less than 1200w? Train harder so you can input more power over the long period, and practice riding as efficiently as you can (for example using downhills to your advantage, not just to recover). Making it on less than 1000w of battery is possible but it would be more likely on a different bike setup (a lighter and more aero road bike setup)

You're likely going to be in the saddle for 4+ hrs (and more likely 6) so comfort will be important at all the points you touch the bike. This doesn't always mean soft and cushy, the saddle and bars should fit you well (right height, right width, right angles, etc.) and the only way you'll know this is experience in regularly riding beyond about 2 hrs.

Beyond that your into the law of diminishing (but not insignificant) returns. Use efficient tires (with as high a pressure as practical), keep your weight down (try and forgo many of the "extras" many folks regularly ride with), and despite an upright riding position think about your aerodynamics, so ideally no additional bags and such, and no clothing flapping around in the wind.
 

RabH

Well-Known Member
Perhaps it is just me, dodgeman, but I don't think 1000 Wh is enough for 80 miles ridden by an average e-biker in reasonable time.
I managed 152 miles with just 500Wh ;) I did pick the perfect day though which makes a huge difference if you are contemplating a long ride, bring big climbs and strong winds into the equation and your battery will suffer a hell of a lot! I have a Giant Road E+1 Pro which has 22 gears so is very capable of being ridden without assistance on a lot of climbs! As others have said, there are so many variables involved! Rider fitness plays a huge part, picking the right bike is very difficult and shouldn't be rushed!

The first 70 miles of that ride were with no assist at all, I had a tailwind of course and my gears got me up the climbs without any assist! I now have 1000Wh at my disposal and would love to see what I could do in a single day but the time of year and current circumstances mean I won't be doing any long rides for the foreseeable future! Hopefully next year in the better weather and a change of circumstances I might get a chance to test it...

Elevation gain was 7,275 ft which isn't a lot for such a distance! If I did that distance where I live it would be like climbing Everest! ;)

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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Thank you Rab! The most important information for the OP would be you have ridden your Giant road e-bike without assistance for a long distance :)
Could you estimate the distance ridden with assistance?
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
@mclewis1, makes good points. If you are riding for about three hours, you will want to change up hand positions and you will want to be able to drop and tuck at times for aerodynamic advantages. Three-hours is enough for me. I begin having diminishing returns on recreational value as I approach the three-hour mark. Then it becomes too much of a good thing.

Riding with others will increase your range substantially because only the leading rider will be breaking the wind. At 30Kph over 85% of a rider's energy is used to overcome wind resistance, riding solo. In a paceline of three riders, the lead's energy use is reduced by about 2%, the second rider by 25% and the third rider's energy use is reduced by 30%. 400Wh is plenty for me when riding with a group, given the collective 20% efficiency advantage.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
If you are riding for about three hours, you will want to change up hand positions and you will want to be able to drop and tuck at times for aerodynamic advantages. Three-hours is enough for me. I begin having diminishing returns on recreational value as I approach the three-hour mark. Then it becomes too much of a good thing.
Every human being is different. I used to pedal for five or seven hours when needed.


Riding with others will increase your range substantially because only the leading rider will be breaking the wind. At 30Kph over 85% of a rider's energy is used to overcome wind resistance, riding solo. In a paceline of three riders, the lead's energy use is reduced by about 2%, the second rider by 25% and the third rider's energy use is reduced by 30%. 400Wh is plenty for me when riding with a group, given the collective 20% efficiency advantage.
You are talking about drafting, and that's a peleton thing. Most of cyclists cannot draft, and attempt to do it without all parties trained in the technique can lead to serious accident. I actually ride in groups often and no one drafts there. The only good thing in group riding is the leader to set the pace (and group rides are less boring).
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
A short video from the 80+ mile group ride I mentioned earlier. My brother (who is a very strong rider) tried to make it on a single 576 Wh battery. He underestimated the headwind, and had to return unassisted. "That woman" rode on her own power :) She's a competing cyclist level though.

 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
This is the bike that I use for what are for me 'longer rides.' It has a bar that allows for changing positions to prevent fatigue. The saddle has gel and ventilation. It can be ridden clipped in or un-clipped with double sided pedals. It has low rolling resistance tires that can take broken pavement or trails and it has an air fork. It can hold a second battery if I want, but I have found that it is more advantageous to get rid of the added weight of a second battery. The rural roads around here are very rough. That is why this bike is beefy. Three hours of rough roads is good enough for me.
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Solarcabin

Active Member
Region
USA
If you want more range get a more powerful battery and controller or a second battery.

EBIKE RANGE CALCULATOR (UPDATED)​


An ebike battery is measured by its voltage (V) and amp-hour (Ah) rating. To calculate the Wh of an ebike battery pack, we simply multiply its V and Ah to get the Wh.

  • A battery rated at 36 V and 10.4 Ah will have a 417.6 Wh capacity (36 x 10.4 = 374.4), like on the Eunorau UHVO All-Terrain Ebike
  • A battery rated at 48 V and 21 Ah will have a 1,008 Wh capacity (48 x 21 = 1,008), like on the Bakcou Mule.
On average, it's been estimated that the average ebike battery will yield one (1) mile of travel for every 20 Wh of energy.

Now, just plug in the battery voltage and amp-hour ratings below to get an estimate range.

Battery Volts x Battery Amps = Battery Watt Hours

Battery Watt Hours / Average User = Estimated range in miles

Example:

48 volt x 20 Ah = 960

960 / 20 = 48 miles in range

Approximate range in miles for typical 175-lb rider, using Pedal Assist Level (PAS) 1, on dry, flat, and paved roads, with tires properly inflated and no headwinds. Results may vary.

I ride an ebike with a 48 volt and 20 Ah battery in PAS 5 and full throttle so I use 30 for my base unit and I can get 32 miles range without draining the battery.
 

dodgeman

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Macomb, Illinois
Perhaps it is just me, dodgeman, but I don't think 1000 Wh is enough for 80 miles ridden by an average e-biker in reasonable time.
About the most I’ve ridden in a day is around 32 miles on a single 500 watt battery on my Trek Verve+3 and I had more left in the battery. I’m not that gentle on the battery, I’m usually riding in tour mode and bump it up sometimes on hills. I’m pretty sure 40 miles is doable on a single battery. I think if a person ran a little more in eco and with 2 batteries 120 miles is possible.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
About the most I’ve ridden in a day is around 32 miles on a single 500 watt battery on my Trek Verve+3 and I had more left in the battery. I’m not that gentle on the battery, I’m usually riding in tour mode and bump it up sometimes on hills. I’m pretty sure 40 miles is doable on a single battery. I think if a person ran a little more in eco and with 2 batteries 120 miles is possible.
Yes, theoretically. There are two additional factors. 1) There are diminishing returns on the added weight of a second battery. For example you could design a RC drone with battery packs so large that it can barely lift off. Or you could walk up a hill with ten gallons of water, incase you get thirsty. Which would make you more thirsty than taking 750ml. The first mile does not gain from that total weight, it is almost all loss. 2) 120 miles would be about eight-hours of continuous riding at 15mph or 21kph without stopping to go pee or get a snack. It could be done, but that sort of ride would not be fun.
 

e-boy

Well-Known Member
Please do not confuse a Vado with Vado SL. The first one is the full power/large battery one, the SL is a low power, small battery, lightweight e-bike. If you mention EQ it probably is the SL. Note: I have not tried an 80 miler on the Vado SL yet.
I meant Vado 5.0 , but I'll also look at the SL EQ if available .
 

dodgeman

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Macomb, Illinois
Me and my bike are pushing 300 pounds so another 9 pound battery is only about 3% more weight. I know the range estimation on my Trek can get pretty wonky when riding with wind. With a tail wind I’ve seen the amount of miles left count up even though I’m still riding and into a headwind I’ve ridden a mile and have seen it lose 3 or 4 miles of range.

I always ride out and back so the winds and the hills tend to balance out.
 

dodgeman

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Macomb, Illinois
I just visited the Bosch website. They have a range calculator that seems to mirror my experience of a range of 40 to 59 miles on a Powertube 500 battery. You can input the weight, windy or calm, hilly or flat, paved or not etc and it will give yo an estimated range.