Long Range E-Bikes ?

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
On my hub drive kit bike, the passive drain is a factor even when the throttle is not activated.
I'm not familiar with your system but there is no passive drain in mid-motors I'm familiar with (Specialized and Yamaha). Bosch or Shimano cannot be any diffferent. The only passive drain is for e-bike lighting but that factor is totally negligeable with the modern LEDs.

With mid-drives we are talking about here it is never recommended to switch the system off for pedalling downhill. You just activate the Off Mode but the system is up and running. The instant current value can be seen in the Mission Control app. (Prior to 2022 models, you could see your own and the motor power in the BLEvo app, and even get the data to Excel post-ride). And that battery draw is zero if you either do not pedal or the Off Mode has been switched on.

It is amazing how much the range increases on long downhill rides! The 2022 Como and Vado are equipped with the new MasterMind TCD display. There is a whole display page devoted to the battery range. Not only the current range is recalculated as you ride but there is a Range Trend data field, too. If you ride uphill, you see the range figure go down and the trend arrow is pointing down. As soon as you start descending, the arrow turns up (I could see that on the 2022 Tero I demo rode this year).

1640157349954.png

The Range data page on MasterMind TCD. The pink colour indicates the Smart Assistance Mode (you enter the distance to be ridden and predicted elevation gain in Mission Control, and the Mission Control automatically manipulates assistance to achieve your goal with predefined battery % at the end of the ride). Of course, Smart Control would make you slower if the objective could not be met at faster pace. (In emergency situations, the user can activate the Turbo mode). As you can see, the Battery Consumption field is null if you do not pedal.

I could use the Smart Control on my older Turbo e-bikes and I only don't have the Range data page in my displays (but I can use the BLEvo app for the same). The reason I'm not using Smart Control is it is me who wants to control the e-bike :)
 
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opimax

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Atlanta
i ride on avg 80 miles per trip,almost every other day. being an older, never “fit” naturally the slowest person in all athletic endeavors I have tried i have solved this issue by just buying a total of 3 batteries per bike and making sure I have 2 panniers which fit. I have a min of 90 miles of range at higher speeds on any of the bikes I have. I can go further if I try. This doesn’t work for everybody but I would think it would be a good way of thinking….high miles is a cost, similar to the statement “cost of doing business”

i see this thread as finding the most efficient way to get high mileage , not my throw batteries at the problem the way I do. 1 additional thought in this is it simplifies an issue and more so removes one stress in my life (range) I put on all batteries almost every ride even a planned 5 miler, plans change 😁
 

mclewis1

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Fredericton, NB
i ride on avg 80 miles per trip,almost every other day. being an older, never “fit” naturally the slowest person in all athletic endeavors I have tried i have solved this issue by just buying a total of 3 batteries per bike and making sure I have 2 panniers which fit. I have a min of 90 miles of range at higher speeds on any of the bikes I have. I can go further if I try. This doesn’t work for everybody but I would think it would be a good way of thinking….high miles is a cost, similar to the statement “cost of doing business”

i see this thread as finding the most efficient way to get high mileage , not my throw batteries at the problem the way I do. 1 additional thought in this is it simplifies an issue and more so removes one stress in my life (range) I put on all batteries almost every ride even a planned 5 miler, plans change 😁
Meh, I wouldn't feel the need to be defensive. Your strategy works for you (and likely more than a few others).

On the whole I find it interesting that even with an ebike the underlying desire for efficiency that is so prevalent in analog bikes is still there (just to lesser or greater degrees depending on the individual).
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Atlanta
Only defensive I feel is having enough money and to do this while others are not as fortunate, some may not want to carry the weight and the bags.

having additional batteries may extend the life of all the batteries . If you have 1 or even 2 you beat the batteries up if you are using them to extreme every time, long range cost saving but initial higher cost
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Only defensive I feel is having enough money and to do this while others are not as fortunate, some may not want to carry the weight and the bags.

having additional batteries may extend the life of all the batteries . If you have 1 or even 2 you beat the batteries up if you are using them to extreme every time, long range cost saving but initial higher cost
I concur.
 

Catalyzt

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I'm not familiar with your system but there is no passive drain in mid-motors I'm familiar with (Specialized and Yamaha). Bosch or Shimano cannot be any diffferent. The only passive drain is for e-bike lighting but that factor is totally negligeable with the modern LEDs.

With mid-drives we are talking about here it is never recommended to switch the system off for pedalling downhill. You just activate the Off Mode but the system is up and running. The instant current value can be seen in the Mission Control app. (Prior to 2022 models, you could see your own and the motor power in the BLEvo app, and even get the data to Excel post-ride). And that battery draw is zero if you either do not pedal or the Off Mode has been switched on.

It is amazing how much the range increases on long downhill rides! The 2022 Como and Vado are equipped with the new MasterMind TCD display. There is a whole display page devoted to the battery range. Not only the current range is recalculated as you ride but there is a Range Trend data field, too. If you ride uphill, you see the range figure go down and the trend arrow is pointing down. As soon as you start descending, the arrow turns up (I could see that on the 2022 Tero I demo rode this year).

View attachment 109838
The Range data page on MasterMind TCD. The pink colour indicates the Smart Assistance Mode (you enter the distance to be ridden and predicted elevation gain in Mission Control, and the Mission Control automatically manipulates assistance to achieve your goal with predefined battery % at the end of the ride). Of course, Smart Control would make you slower if the objective could not be met at faster pace. (In emergency situations, the user can activate the Turbo mode). As you can see, the Battery Consumption field is null if you do not pedal.

I could use the Smart Control on my older Turbo e-bikes and I only don't have the Range data page in my displays (but I can use the BLEvo app for the same). The reason I'm not using Smart Control is it is me who wants to control the e-bike :)
Thanks for the added detail, all makes sense. I was not being very specific. My two bikes are very different. The front-hub drive kit bike (Survivor) does not even have a display of any kind, it's really primitive front hub conversion with a throttle. On that bike, I actually do shut off the battery for long descents... though these days, that rarely happens, because I just use that bike for quick fitness rides near my house-- a lot of hills, some very steep, but very short. For this kit, it is actually recommended to shut the battery off in these situations (or if I stop for 15 minutes to take photos or check my phone or whatever) if range is an issue.

On the Motobecane mid drive, yes, of course I never shut off the battery, and I never switch off the system-- I "activate the off mode" as you say. Good to know about the LED for the display, that is what I always figured. I usually leave it off as long as I can after dusk, but when I really can no longer see it, I turn on the display light on the lowest setting so I can be sure I set the power correctly, and this light probably has no meaningful drain on the main battery.
 

dodgeman

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Macomb, Illinois
My Trek has lights that are always on but I think they are LEDS that most likely don’t use a lot of juice.