Looking for on/off road e-bike

Moondance

New Member
Me: 70 years, 6’ and 200#, bad knee, prefer step through or mid step
Bike type: commuter/ hybrid for road, dirt or gravel trails, hills up to 6% grade; upright/ upright relaxed
Budget: $2000+
Preferred specs: Pedal assist or throttle, mid motor mount (quiet), 48V/500 Wh/ 60+ Nm (torque), 14 Ah battery, 7+ speed, 180mm hydraulic disc brakes with motor inhibitor, Fork 60+ mm
Nice to have: metal fenders, chain guard, tires 2.3+, water bottle mount

Bike List:
  1. Volt Enduro: 500/120! 14.5
  2. Pxcycle E-Xct (not much on it: 500 Shenyi, lower end Shimano hydraulic disc brakes)
  3. EG Geneva 500 MX: DapuMD 250/110 14.0
  4. Fifield Rogue Wave: Bafang 750 MAX, PA
  5. Verve +2: Bosch AL Cruise 250/40
  6. Giant LaFree E+ 2: This would be my first choice if it had motor inhibition on brakes.
Rear mount motors
  • Ariel Rider C-class
  • Elv Surface 694 Shred
  • Townie Go! 8D EQ
  • Ride Up 1 700
  • Emojo Cougar
  • Espin Reine
 
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ki11a

Well-Known Member
I dont know where you got your information that midmotors would be quiet, if you wanted quiet you want a hub motor.

The Ariel Rider C class is a midmotor, not rear.
 

Moondance

New Member
Thanks ki11a. Yes, DD motors are quieter (no gears), but because of the drag, lesser range, and hills in my area I didn’t focus on them and was thinking of a Brose.

You’re right, the Ariel Rider C was a rear-mounted motor in 2019, now a mid mount.
 

ki11a

Well-Known Member
Yeah if you have hills you are going to be trekking on the daily I would def go for a mid drive ebike...I know Bosch is a highly regarded mid drive but they are not very customizable, just be aware of the locked ecosystem.

Have you checked out Dost ebikes? They have mid drives and are pretty awesome....heres their Step-Thru, if I had the cash...:eek:
 

Moondance

New Member
That’s the problem with the European companies. Nice motors, but the EU mandates on power and speed have created software sabotage if you try to customize.

Dost looks fabulous, but it falls off the list at $2,800 and only has cadence assist starting at level 1.

Right now, I’m thinking it’s the AR-C or Volt Enduro at $2,200, but has an upgrade to a Bafang M600 500W (120 Nm), 16 Ah Panasonic battery, a Shimano Acera 8 speed shifter.

Thanks for helping me think this through.
 

ki11a

Well-Known Member
The Yeti ARC, if thats the one you are talking about, is like 3.6k....

The Volt looks ok, a few members have Volts and they are pretty satisfied.
 

McCorby

Well-Known Member
  1. Giant LaFree E+ 2: This would be my first choice if it had motor inhibition on brakes.
None of the “big 4” mid-drives (Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, and Shimano) have motor inhibitors. They are not required. These drives do not provide power when you’re not pedaling and there is no lag when you stop pedaling, like there is on cadence sensor only systems.
 

Moondance

New Member
McCorby, I’m still on the steep learning curve.
Right now, it’s looking like the Ariel Rider C-class (tires not puncture resistant!) or the more expensive Volt. Any thoughts? Thanks.
 

McCorby

Well-Known Member
I’m not familiar with that bike. It’s a mid-drive (not one of the big 4) and has a throttle, which requires brake inhibitors, which it has. Not sure who makes the mid-drive or if it has torque sensing, or if it only uses a cadence sensor. The Ariel website I looked at doesn’t give much info on the motor.

The Volt Enduro has a Bafang m600 mid-drive. I’m not positive, but I don’t think it has a torque sensor. Someone else can confirm. For me, a bike without torque sensing is a no go.

You should really try to ride the different drive systems (hub vs. mid-drives - with cadence only and w/torque sensing) before making a purchase. They all perform very differently.
 
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Moondance

New Member
I’m not familiar with that bike. It’s a mid-drive (not one of the big 4) and has a throttle, which requires brake inhibitors, which it has. Not sure who makes the mid-drive or if it has torque sensing, or if it only uses a cadence sensor. The Ariel website I looked at doesn’t give much info on the motor.

The Volt Enduro has a Bafang m600 mid-drive. I’m not positive, but I don’t think it has a torque sensor. Someone else can confirm. For me, a bike without torque sensing is a no go.

You should really try to ride the different drive systems (hub vs. mid-drives - with cadence only and w/torque sensing) before making a purchase. They all perform very differently.
Yes, definitely agree that no torque sensing = no go. I believe the Ariel Rider has PA as torque and cadence.
 

McCorby

Well-Known Member
Yes, definitely agree that no torque sensing = no go. I believe the Ariel Rider has PA as torque and cadence.
Just be aware, not all mid-drives are created equal. I have ridden all four of the big 4 as well as a couple of Bafang‘s offerings. In my opinion, Bafang is not in the same league in terms of refinement and ride quality.......yet, anyway. Others of course may disagree...lol

Edit: Also be aware that if you feel that a throttle is a must, then the big 4 are not going to be an option.

Again, I highly recommend that you test ride as many of the mid-drive options as you can.
 
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linklemming

Well-Known Member
Just be aware, not all mid-drives are created equal. I have ridden all four of the big 4 as well as a couple of Bafang‘s offerings. In my opinion, Bafang is not in the same league in terms of refinement and ride quality.......yet, anyway. Others of course may disagree...lol

Edit: Also be aware that if you feel that a throttle is a must, then the big 4 are not going to be an option.

Again, I highly recommend that you test ride as many of the mid-drive options as you can.
Great summary.

Also note that the big 4 dont have motor inhibitors because frankly they are no needed, also I think all of the big 4 are 36V.

That being said, I love the big 4 mid-drives and have 2 brose based bikes. I will likely own a bafang ultra mid drive ebike within the next year just to try,

6% grade isnt all that much of a hill and could be done by a hub drive easily. I do 6% grades every day(and even steeper) and many times with headwinds over 20mph. 6% is pretty much a cakewalk for a well designed geared hub drive. My juiced CCX had no issues with this. Took the motor apart after a year of this the windings looked fine.

Personally Im first and foremost a mid-drive fan especially of the big 4. I come from a MTB background and no doubt they are superior for this. As you get into commuting/less technical offroad/higher speeds, hub drives start to make more sense, and are more economical. The more I use hub drives, the more I appreciate them.

Why do you think you need motor inhibitors? I had them on my juiced CCX and hated them. I have disabled them on every other bike I have owned including a recent 1500watt GMAC hub motor build
 
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Moondance

New Member
As mentioned by McCorby above not all mid drives are equal and not all hub motors are equal either.
I'm currently looking at a new ebike for early Spring (Feb/March) which will be the Stromer ST3 which has a hub motor. While yes I know it's quite more than the Level it's still a hub motor so for me I won't let the motor placement dictate what I like.
Makes sense.
 

Moondance

New Member
Great summary.

Also note that the big 4 dont have motor inhibitors because frankly they are no needed, also I think all of the big 4 are 36V.

That being said, I love the big 4 mid-drives and have 2 brose based bikes. I will likely own a bafang ultra mid drive ebike within the next year just to try,

6% grade isnt all that much of a hill and could be done by a hub drive easily. I do 6% grades every day(and even steeper) and many times with headwinds over 20mph. 6% is pretty much a cakewalk for a well designed geared hub drive. My juiced CCX had no issues with this. Took the motor apart after a year of this the windings looked fine.

Personally Im first and foremost a mid-drive fan especially of the big 4. I come from a MTB background and no doubt they are superior for this. As you get into commuting/less technical offroad/higher speeds, hub drives start to make more sense, and are more economical. The more I use hub drives, the more I appreciate them.

Why do you think you need motor inhibitors? I had them on my juiced CCX and hated them. I have disabled them on every other bike I have owned including a recent 1500watt GMAC hub motor build
I really need something to go to Trader Joe’s instead of driving my son’s Subaru STI. I want to take rides in the sun, down trails, up hills and wherever the road takes me.

At my age, awaiting knee surgery, I want a bike that is reliable, balanced, fun, and within my budget. I did look at the juicy Hyper Scorpion but a moped style would be hard to pedal and I do want some exercise.

In California, e-bikes must not exceed 750W and must not exceed 28 mph. The bike‘s motor must disengage when brakes are applied. That’s the long and short of it.

Thanks for your input.
 

McCorby

Well-Known Member
In California, e-bikes must not exceed 750W and must not exceed 28 mph. The bike‘s motor must disengage when brakes are applied. That’s the long and short of it.

Thanks for your input.
I don’t think this is true. Class 1 and class 3 bikes with mid-drives from one of the “big four“ will definitely not have motor inhibitors, and I’m pretty sure they can be bought and ridden legally in California. These mid-drives have no provision for motor inhibitors, as there is no need for them due to their use of multiple sensors (torque, cadence, and wheel speed) to determine when power should and shouldn’t be applied.

I could see where this would be a requirement for class 2 bikes, which have a throttle.

Additionally, bikes that have have drive systems with only a cadence sensor typically have motor inhibitors because there is a lag in the power turning off when you stop pedaling.
 
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ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
I really need something to go to Trader Joe’s instead of driving my son’s Subaru STI. I want to take rides in the sun, down trails, up hills and wherever the road takes me.

At my age, awaiting knee surgery, I want a bike that is reliable, balanced, fun, and within my budget. I did look at the juicy Hyper Scorpion but a moped style would be hard to pedal and I do want some exercise.

In California, e-bikes must not exceed 750W and must not exceed 28 mph. The bike‘s motor must disengage when brakes are applied. That’s the long and short of it.

Thanks for your input.
her ya go, great bike, great company. pick one! you can also choose your frame and tire size! the X checks all your boxs! the Stunner ST, all but one, its an internally geared 5 speed.
 

McCorby

Well-Known Member
her ya go, great bike, great company. pick one! you can also choose your frame and tire size! the X checks all your boxs! the Stunner ST, all but one, its an internally geared 5 speed.
Nice looking bikes, but I think he wants torque sensing. Don’t think these have that, correct?