Luna Belt Drive BABE

tomdav

Well-Known Member
Bike was just announced last week and nobody has one yet. EBR has never reviewed a Luna bike AFAIK (presumably because Luna doesn't pay for reviews) so I doubt you'll see EBR reviewing it.

My two cents, I owned the Luna X1 with the M600. I didn't like the M600. It was a loud motor and it can't be user programmed like the other Bafang drives (unless you are a dealer with the pricey programming gear). Only way to make the X1 street legal is to remove the throttle and I suspect the BABE will be no different. If you don't disable throttle you can't make it class 2 or class 3 legal because you can't program the speed cutoff and no way Luna will sell this bike pre-programmed to cutoff at 20 mph (that would be heresy). That's all fine and good if you don't care about liability issues if you hit someone with your unlicensed and uninsured motor vehicle.

That said if you don't care about a quiet motor, programming, or a street legal e-bike I'd say it's a really nice looking bike at a decent price point. I really like the concept of belt drive and IGH.
 
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Okpharmacy777

New Member
Thanks for the quick response I contacted Luna about a possible Bluetooth app for reprogramming purposes. I completely agree with your assessment concerning the I GH and belt drive that is exactly what peaked my interest. Best wishes to you and yours!
 

tomdav

Well-Known Member
Yeah, forget about bluetooth or app for the M600. Luna initially claimed their Ludi controller for the M600 would have a screwdriver setting to dial up or down the power but that turned out to be vaporware. If they couldn't make that happen I doubt app support is coming any time soon.

The eggrider display provides app for the Ultra/BBS02/BBSHD but the M600 uses a different protocol. Sounds like the exess controller for the Ultra motor also lets you program it via app.

Have you checked out the FLX blade 2.0? That's another belt / IGH option with twice the power (and price tag) with the Ultra motor.

 

smorgasbord

Well-Known Member
If you don't have to climb much, this might be a really nice bike, but with an overall 243% range, the Sturmey-Archer IGH would be a major limiting factor for me. It's equivalent to having an 11-27 rear cassette.

That said, the M600 is pretty powerful and the Gates belt can take a lot of tension. As a hard tail fat tire bike, it's cool to have a Gates belt, but the compromises for it may not be right for some.
 

Ebiker33

Active Member
Yeah, forget about bluetooth or app for the M600. Luna initially claimed their Ludi controller for the M600 would have a screwdriver setting to dial up or down the power but that turned out to be vaporware. If they couldn't make that happen I doubt app support is coming any time soon.

The eggrider display provides app for the Ultra/BBS02/BBSHD but the M600 uses a different protocol. Sounds like the exess controller for the Ultra motor also lets you program it via app.

Have you checked out the FLX blade 2.0? That's another belt / IGH option with twice the power (and price tag) with the Ultra motor.

Another Gates belt drive with Rohloff, this seems to be the trend for the new decade, looks like most premium bikes will be transitioning to these.
 
Yeah, forget about bluetooth or app for the M600. Luna initially claimed their Ludi controller for the M600 would have a screwdriver setting to dial up or down the power but that turned out to be vaporware. If they couldn't make that happen I doubt app support is coming any time soon.

The eggrider display provides app for the Ultra/BBS02/BBSHD but the M600 uses a different protocol. Sounds like the exess controller for the Ultra motor also lets you program it via app.

Have you checked out the FLX blade 2.0? That's another belt / IGH option with twice the power (and price tag) with the Ultra motor.

Wow that FLX Blade hits almost my entire wish list... Thanks for the link! Now to figure out if their frame and wheels can support my fat rear :)
 

CityExplorer

Active Member
Yup Belt-drive and IGH, Rohloff e14 specifically, is on my list of next e-bike (and hopefully last for 5years min). I've been watching the Blade 2.0 waiting for the real pics; I wonder why they didn't go for the electric shifter. Right now this is the most exciting bike of 2020 that I see so far. i'm hoping by 2021 it will all come together at the right price.
 

tomdav

Well-Known Member
I'd think the latest rendering from FLX is pretty close. Similarities to the Luna BABE are striking. Wondering if perhaps the same supplier for the frame? Surprising to see FLX one upping Luna with a legit bad ass belt ebike. Then again, maybe Luna has something waiting in the wings.


 

smorgasbord

Well-Known Member
Surprising to see FLX one upping Luna with a legit bad ass belt ebike. Then again, maybe Luna has something waiting in the wings.
The FLX Blade 2.0 is twice the price of the BABE. For FLX kind of money Luna already has two different full-suspension, all carbon bikes, one of which can be upgraded to the Rohloff.
 

Ken M

Well-Known Member
These are nice ebikes but obviously both Luna and FLX are sourcing the same basic frame (while calling it their own design) and configuring it similarly (mainly the Bafang motors models are different).

There is a new model coming out that will beat both of these bikes if urban mobility is your need.
 

Ken M

Well-Known Member
It's a new project model by PIM (or at least they are involved). It will be similiar to the FLX and Luna models but will be more urban mobility focused. Bafang M620 Ultra (may have an external custom controller but I can't get details on that yet), 825wh external mount battery but still integrated to the frame (internal batteries reduce structural rigidity of the frame and serve no purpose but to hide that it's an ebike but this bike will yell out that it's an ebike), staggered street tires (likely 26x3 rear and 27.5x2.4-2.8 front), mag wheels will be an option on a fixie model (IGH on spokes wheels std.), carbon front fork with integrated carbon bars (they believe the tires will provide enough suspension for most riders but air forks will be an option for those "less serious" riders), rear rack, lights, fenders, etc. It's more down the lines of the Watt Wagon such that it's intended to supplement owning a car. It will be standard as a class 1/2 (PAS & throttle) to 20mph but will have an "off-road" mode allowing PAS and throttle upwards of 55kph.

I believe they will have an organic campaign on this bike soon. 100% assured of delivery or money back guarantee and I know the price will be below $3,000, maybe $2,499 or less for the fixie (the idea is that with that much power gears to optimize human effort are not really essential so the idea is to optimize rider input at set cruise speeds based on gear ratio of the fixie).

I believe putting knobby tires on a hard tail ebike doesn't make much sense because most mtn bikes are simply going full suspension and knobbies can never match the handling on pavement of street tires.
 

smorgasbord

Well-Known Member
These are nice ebikes but obviously both Luna and FLX are sourcing the same basic frame (while calling it their own design) and configuring it similarly (mainly the Bafang motors models are different).

There is a new model coming out that will beat both of these bikes if urban mobility is your need.
1) I don't see where Luna claims the frame is their own design. I recall when their X-1 came out, Luna was very clear the frame wasn't their own design. When I was picking up my Apollo at Luna, someone else was picking up their X-1. He asked them what the differences were and the first thing out of the Luna employee's mouth was the frame and where the bikes were assembled - even before talking about Ultra vs M600 motors.

That said, the FLX's website video does claim they designed the frame for the Blade 2.0.

2) The frames look different enough to me that they are probably not made by the same company. Design copying is rampant in China, still. It could be that the same company makes two different versions for the two different motors, and in that process varies some of the other aspects as well, but that doesn't seem likely. Take a close look at the rear and you'll see two different solutions to the rear-entry/split frame design necessitated by the belt drive. That's the kind of detail I don't think they'd change just to support different motors.

3) With the Luna being a true fat tire (4" wide) hardtail, I don't feel it's designed for urban mobility purposes. Sure, people will use it that way, but that's not the design intent.

FLX is taking a different approach with the Blade 2.0, even including a "Touring" configuration with comfort seat, suspension seatpost, racks, fenders, lights, etc. Its tire size is 27.5x2.6" .
 

Ken M

Well-Known Member
1) I don't see where Luna claims the frame is their own design. I recall when their X-1 came out, Luna was very clear the frame wasn't their own design. When I was picking up my Apollo at Luna, someone else was picking up their X-1. He asked them what the differences were and the first thing out of the Luna employee's mouth was the frame and where the bikes were assembled - even before talking about Ultra vs M600 motors.

That said, the FLX's website video does claim they designed the frame for the Blade 2.0.

2) The frames look different enough to me that they are probably not made by the same company. Design copying is rampant in China, still. It could be that the same company makes two different versions for the two different motors, and in that process varies some of the other aspects as well, but that doesn't seem likely. Take a close look at the rear and you'll see two different solutions to the rear-entry/split frame design necessitated by the belt drive. That's the kind of detail I don't think they'd change just to support different motors.

3) With the Luna being a true fat tire (4" wide) hardtail, I don't feel it's designed for urban mobility purposes. Sure, people will use it that way, but that's not the design intent.

FLX is taking a different approach with the Blade 2.0, even including a "Touring" configuration with comfort seat, suspension seatpost, racks, fenders, lights, etc. Its tire size is 27.5x2.6" .
Wow...you are right the chain / seat stay splits are not the same configuration which does indicated different factories (most likely) although those rear drop-outs tend to be forged parts that could be made in optional version and welded to same frame. But I think you are correct.

FLX makes the claim in the video that it's a mountain ebike which matches their gallery and videos of the bike's intent. Just my personal opinion that hard tails are quickly becoming obsolete for most serious off-road riding so I think that it's just a mistake to position a hard tail in that segment these days. That said, I tend to think that Bafang intended the M600 to be their top mtn ebike mid and the M620 to be their top urban and cargo ebike mid drive.
 

tomdav

Well-Known Member
The FLX Blade 2.0 is twice the price of the BABE. For FLX kind of money Luna already has two different full-suspension, all carbon bikes, one of which can be upgraded to the Rohloff.
I haven't seen the Apex show up as available to purchase since Luna's Mesolithic Age and price with Rohloff is $8K + shipping. Once in a blue moon the Apollo shows up in stock but can't be purchased with Rohloff. If you add $100 for shipping and $500 for 1 year warranty the BABE is $3350. The Blade 2.0 is $5K (although can be brought down a little with referral code). Edit: since I've gotten a few PM requests, here's my FLX referral link (gives $50 off your first order). So price difference without Rohloff is $1650. Luna charges $1790 for Rohloff so the Blade 2.0 is theoretically not that much more all things considered.
 
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Ken M

Well-Known Member
I haven't seen the Apex show up as available to purchase since Luna's Mesolithic Age and price with Rohloff is $8K + shipping. Once in a blue moon the Apollo shows up in stock but can't be purchased with Rohloff. If you add $100 for shipping and $500 for 1 year warranty the BABE is $3350. The Blade 2.0 is $5K (although can be brought down a little with referral code). So price difference without Rohloff is $1650. Luna charges $1790 for Rohloff so the Blade 2.0 is theoretically not that much more all things considered.
Good observations!
 

smorgasbord

Well-Known Member
Luna charges $1790 for Rohloff so the Blade 2.0 is theoretically not that much more all things considered.
That $1790 includes an upgrade from alloy rims to carbon. Generally, the retail price of the Rohloff is considered to be about $1500, depending on grip shift or E-14.

I wasn't saying that FLX was charging inappropriately, just that the two bikes don't compete in the market segment. People with a $3K budget are different than those in the $5K-$6K range.
 

tempestrock

New Member
It's a new project model by PIM (or at least they are involved). It will be similiar to the FLX and Luna models but will be more urban mobility focused. Bafang M620 Ultra (may have an external custom controller but I can't get details on that yet), 825wh external mount battery but still integrated to the frame (internal batteries reduce structural rigidity of the frame and serve no purpose but to hide that it's an ebike but this bike will yell out that it's an ebike), staggered street tires (likely 26x3 rear and 27.5x2.4-2.8 front), mag wheels will be an option on a fixie model (IGH on spokes wheels std.), carbon front fork with integrated carbon bars (they believe the tires will provide enough suspension for most riders but air forks will be an option for those "less serious" riders), rear rack, lights, fenders, etc. It's more down the lines of the Watt Wagon such that it's intended to supplement owning a car. It will be standard as a class 1/2 (PAS & throttle) to 20mph but will have an "off-road" mode allowing PAS and throttle upwards of 55kph.

I believe they will have an organic campaign on this bike soon. 100% assured of delivery or money back guarantee and I know the price will be below $3,000, maybe $2,499 or less for the fixie (the idea is that with that much power gears to optimize human effort are not really essential so the idea is to optimize rider input at set cruise speeds based on gear ratio of the fixie).

I believe putting knobby tires on a hard tail ebike doesn't make much sense because most mtn bikes are simply going full suspension and knobbies can never match the handling on pavement of street tires.
hello ken. can you share any more info such as links, photos, etc about this possible new bike? is there a facebook page?