Luna prebuilt bikes

223coyote

Member
Has anyone bought one of Luna's prebuilt bikes ? Which one and how do you like it ? They look like a really good deal for what you get.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
While they certainly offer powerful BBS-HD motor and decent battery packs, the ride quality will never be the same as a well designed torque sensor bike like Stromer or BH or Bosch.
The pedal assist still works but once you ride a well-balanced bike like Haibike or Specialized, going back to cadence or speed sensing can be hard..
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Yes, Luna cycle it has no torque sensor. The assist is more like a tailwind. Assist 1 is slow tailwind and assist 9 is very strong tailwind regardless how hard you pedal. It is similar to my 2015 Tekoa. I heard Pedego also works the same.

It is not the same with true torque sensing such as Bosch where it measures your pedal input every milisecond and then responds with proportional torque in percentage depending on your assist level.

It is also different with the cheaper torque sensing that uses strain gauge sensor near the rear hub such as the Izip, easy motion. I have a 2015 Izip Dash with this cheaper torque sensing and I don't like it since it does not feel linear and natural.

The Luna cycle has the best bike components for the money but you got to have some interest in fine tuning the ebike and being a handyman in general. I just got the Giant Stance with BBSHD
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
I have to make some reprogramming to the controller since it is not optimized for smooth operation and not optimized for maximum battery range. I have to make my own research and download a driver software so I can connect the bike to my computer. I have a pretty good idea what to change in the program since I have another mid drive (2015 Raleigh Tekoa) as my reference,

I detuned it so it can have maximum battery range but is still powerful enough to match other factory speed pedelecs. The advantage of BBSHD over the Tranzx mid drive is that there is power support even at higher cadence (above 100) so it feels more linear and more natural as opposed to the tranzx where power fades away at about 90 rpm cadence.

The shift cable is not optimally positioned with tight zip ties resulting to sticky and unresponsive shifting. The shift detector sucks (still have shift slamming) so I have to add a brake sensor to disable the motor while shifting. This is a project in progress but I already have a list to do and pretty much know what I am doing. My goal is to make it into a super comfortable pavement speed bike. Things to change like marathon tires, full wrap around fenders, aero bars, sturdy seat mounted rack to isolate my spare battery from road impacts.
http://bgindy.com/product/arkel-randonneur-seat-post-rack-21835.htm
 
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Metalusion

Active Member
cadence sensor in the right gear can still give you a workout and if you opt for a bike that has a throttle as well it to me is alot of fun to have it kick in at any moment you feel it's necessary. though the only model that i see that is set up that way is the Ludicrous.
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
cadence sensor in the right gear can still give you a workout and if you opt for a bike that has a throttle as well it to me is alot of fun to have it kick in at any moment you feel it's necessary. though the only model that i see that is set up that way is the Ludicrous.
Exactly the same reason I got the Luna BBSHD. I wanted the same exercise as if I'm riding a non-ebike, only faster road speed and tons of fun more. I am able to cadence 80 to 110 just like the non-ebeike which is not doable with other mid drives (except Bosch performance speed line).

The dual suspension also made the workout bearable and even enjoyable at rough pavements on long distance trips. Much better than the body float on my 2 other ebikes.
 
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Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I have to make some reprogramming to the controller since it is not optimized for smooth operation and not optimized for maximum battery range. I have to make my own research and download a driver software so I can connect the bike to my computer. I have a pretty good idea what to change in the program since I have another mid drive (2015 Raleigh Tekoa) as my reference,

I detuned it so it can have maximum battery range but is still powerful enough to match other factory speed pedelecs. The advantage of BBSHD over the Tranzx mid drive is that there is power support even at higher cadence (above 100) so it feels more linear and more natural as opposed to the tranzx where power fades away at about 90 rpm cadence.
http://bgindy.com/product/arkel-randonneur-seat-post-rack-21835.htm

The nice thing about the Bafang programability is you can save the settings for future recovery.
I can now formulate the program and then save it even when I am away from the ebike and then download it to the ebike later. I now have collections of different settings to choose from.

I initially matched the first 4 power assists levels to my 2015 Tekoa (350 watt) and then assigned higher support on succeeding levels (5,6,7,8,,& 9). Later I found that 9 levels of assists distracts to the fun of ebiking experience due to constant fidgeting with the assist button.

Now I am writing another program to match the 4 power assist levels of my more powerful 2015 Dash (500 watt). On top of that I also assigned minimum assist at zero (0) assist level (for economical slow mode riding). I also assigned assist on the assist level five (5) 0f 750 watts. Assist levels 6,7,& 8 are condemned to 0 watts and assist level 9 is 100% (930-940 watts) which is accessed by the throttle.

Waiting for the weather to improve so I can try the latest settings.
 
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Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
My update. After tinkering with the BBSHD controller setting compared to my 2 other class 3 ebikes (2015 izip dash, 2015 Raleigh Tekoa). I come to realize that those factory ratings were just on papers only. These factory ebikes actually put out twice as much. One owner of 500 watt Izip dash saw 1200 watts on his power meter. I was maintaining my BBSHD at 25 mph on slight uphill that registered 700+ watts. I can also do the same speed on that same road on my other mid drive 350 watt Raleigh Tekoa. And the power consumption for both is similar. Which leads me to conclude that the Tekoa's 350 watt is just on paper and the peak current draw is actually twice that much. I also read somewhere that it is also the same for the Bosch 350 watts, it's peak output is actually 750 watts.

So there you go, the BBSHD is rated at 1,000 watts but the limit draw is 1500 watts (peak output). For me, I still opted to lower the limit draw of my BBSHD to 1000 watts. Now, all my 3 ebikes have similar "feel" in relation to power consumption. The difference is the BBSHD can maintain 1,000 watts without the worries about the motor and controller overheating and it also has almost twice the battery capacity (702 ah vs 418 ah).

In this particular setting, the BBSHD/controller/battery combination is over-engineered for the task that I programmed to do.
 
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Dave M

New Member
I have a bfang put on my full suspension mountain bike and love it, I use PS 1-2 but use the throttle to modulate the all the way up to 9 and get a great work out just faster and more fun. highly recommend getting one. those bikes with the sensor are super slow compared to a bfang, and with a about 5 minutes of practice you can learn to modulate the peddle assist and the throttle together to have a very similar experience to the torque sensor bikes, and yet still have a throttle.
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I have a bfang put on my full suspension mountain bike and love it, I use PS 1-2 but use the throttle to modulate the all the way up to 9 and get a great work out just faster and more fun. highly recommend getting one. those bikes with the sensor are super slow compared to a bfang, and with a about 5 minutes of practice you can learn to modulate the peddle assist and the throttle together to have a very similar experience to the torque sensor bikes, and yet still have a throttle.
Here's how I changed the settings of my controller. I left the assist levels 7 and 8 blank since I want to save the battery and extend the range.
display.jpg
 

Dave M

New Member
Hey Mark that is good info, I just received a program cable and plan on changing a few things, the first thing that drives me nuts is that it keep peddling after I stop peddling, and the other thing is the PA does not actually start to come on until I have at least one revolution with the pedal, was it fairly easy to program??
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Hey Mark that is good info, I just received a program cable and plan on changing a few things, the first thing that drives me nuts is that it keep peddling after I stop peddling, and the other thing is the PA does not actually start to come on until I have at least one revolution with the pedal, was it fairly easy to program??
The things you described are also programmable. If you want I will post my settings here. is your ebike using 36 volts or 48 volts?
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
There can be LOTS of differences. Often when kit building you make lots of compromises. I'm happy with them, but after riding several factory built eBikes there are a LOT of differences. Much neater cabling and wiring. Often the wiring is completely hidden and in the frame. As long as buyers understand they are buying a kit bike all's good. I learned that by the time I had my bike equipped and detailed out the way I wanted it was just shy of the price of some really nice prebuilt bikes.

I have 6 kit bikes. And until someone does a flat foot crank forward factory bike I have no choices. I have two BBSHD bikes and they are a riot to ride, even with some of the not so good looking wiring and details. I easily have $3000 in my best bike. $2500 more than the base frame. The only thing I don't like about factory eBikes are the proprietary batteries. I think that's a huge mistake.

That being said the batteries on factory eBikes are typically much higher quality and have better warranties. It's all a matter of how much one wants to or can spend.

I have a loaner bike built with a small gear drive hub on an old Schwinn step through frame. The bike was free, the kit and battery under $500. It's not pretty but it works. BUT it's a cheap ride.
 
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Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Hey Mark, any chance you'd share a printout of your settings for the BBSHD?
Thanks!
Sure, below is the setting of my controller. Since the BBSHD is robust enough to handle continuous 1500 watts, detuning it to 1000 watts peak assures long life for the motor, as well as increased battery range per charge. And at the same time, it is still more powerful than other factory electric bikes.
1 basic.jpg
2 PAS.jpg 3 Throttle.jpg
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I ride for fun and exercise at a bike trail and bike paths. No city streets except on Bike Sundays where the highway is closed to car traffic so people can bike. I maintain 18-22 mph unless somebody else is faster, then I challenge them to the finish line.
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
You have 4 options to cut off the motor while shifting.
1. Stop pedaling momentarily.
2. Shift sensor or gear sensor installed inline with the shift cable.
3. Brake switch sensor, activated by tapping the left brake handle.
4. a dedicated push button cut off switch. (The green button)
https://electricfatbike.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/brake-switch-250x250.png?w=700
I chose option #3 since it is more intuitive for me.
 
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