Luna X2 - First Impressions

Region
USA
Color 860C is much easier to see on the brightest day. Worth the upgrade IMO.
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I did find this video which supposedly Replaces the STOCK X2 ludicrous Display, the black and white TFT display seems to have a new update, it comes with optional cables depending on which engine you are running or the wire connection you need. I may order it and try it after I try a few others.
 
Region
USA
Hyperglide (HG) is pretty much the long-running Shimano standard. Originally you couldn't run a 12 speed cassette on it, and Shimano pushed Microspline if you wanted to do a Shimano 12s. Meanwhile, SRAM and others offer 12s setups for Shimano HG freehubs. HG freehubs can get some 'spline gouging,' as the cassette 'rocks' in the splines, mores with e-bike usage or hard mtb use, while both Microspline and XD are less susceptible to this type of wear. Having said that, you can get steel freehub bodies which remove this as an issue. You can swap that part only on DT Swiss hubs and some others, and the newer DT 'Hybrid' hubs can be had with steel splines in HG format.

For the most part, I don't see any real net benefit in moving away from HG for ebike use. There aren't many options for Microspline, and I don't really 'need' 12 speeds on an ebike. XD drivetrains aren't cheap either.

Linkglide, on the other hand, is Shimano trying to step up to build an ebike/heavy-duty use drivetrain. The cassette works on HG splines, with the drivetrain offered in either 10s or 11s, and is intended to be better/longer-lived for shifting under load, and overall higher durability. I've been pretty interested in this setup, but the parts have been pretty much unobtanium in the US. I nearly ordered a complete groupset from overseas, but then couldn't locate the LG chain, so put it on pause. Meanwhile, I went ahead with moving to SRAM MMX for combining/positioning controls - while Shimano has their own 'combined control mount' called i-Spec, I think only the Linkglide 11s supports it. So, replacing everything initially IF they're available I might consider LinkGlide, but as I'm using a MMX-compatible dropper remote, I'd now need to replace it with an i-Spec or separate clamp mount..so while I have been and remain interested in seeing how Linkglide develops, I'm not going to jump to it anytime 'soon' unless I find $$ burning a hole in my pocket.



Personally, I waffle all around on brakes. The M600 Ludi can (now) use a brake sensor for motor cutoff (this is what the 'e' versions of brakes add), and I wanted to add a brake cutoff initially, but now I'm not convinced. At this point I'm going to stick with the Guide R2s for a bit, but may later move to Code RSC.

The X2 isn't really a 'mash the throttle' or 'drive by throttle' motorcycle replacement. I don't use the throttle much so tough to say, but certainly easier on the larger rear sprockets vs smaller/higher gears.
There aren't any 'great' throttles, like a MC throttle, although there are a few 'mc-like' ones - no experience using them on eMTB though.
Yeah, I got the ATV-style thumb throttle for mine. This is a really nice 12speed Derailleur https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/deore-xt-m8100/RD-M8100-GS.html I was looking at if I stuck with 12speed. Then I saw this shortcage for extra clearance(my trails are very Rocky Logs to go over. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/xtr-m9050-di2/RD-M9050-GS.html was another derailleur I was looking at. I think for now I will take your advice and buy a Hybrid hub where I can swap drivers out if necessary. If I can obtain the Linkglide 11speed setup, I will likely go with that, otherwise, I think I will end up with the 8100 Deore 11speed running HG+, If I stick with SRAM 12speed, I will likely go to XD driver w/ GX shifter derailleur & cassette. SRAM has a newer chain setup that's nice as well https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07218K493/ref=crt_ewc_title_dp_8?ie=UTF8&smid=AMY4I718ZUBOU&th=1 meant to work with the GX setup. Called SRAM FLOWLINK though I think it's a HOLLOW pin chain. I don't know what existed first flowlink, or linkglide. Nor do I understand how comparable they are. If I stay at a 12speed SRAM the I'll use FLOWLINK chain, if I go to an 11speed GX setup, I'll prob buy the Connex 11speed chain with solid pins. Right now it looks like i am stuck researching prices, & I will go with the best setup for my money. Which would be just to swap to xd driver & GX 12speed Cassette, shifter, & derailleur. HG+ is only good on SRAM SX & NX it can't be used on the GX Cassette or higher by SRAM. It really is hard to decide what conversion to do. I figure I will wait until I have 250+miles before changing the groupset unless it fails on me. As for brakes that is the easiest for me. Either MAGURA MT Trail or the MT7E 4 piston brake setup. You can get the MT7s without the E-brake cutt off, basically buy MT7 levers with the MT7E Brake Calipers. I Can always add the MT7E levers later if I wanted the engine cut off.
 
Region
USA
Yeah, first set was basically to move to known near-bulletproof hubs (DT350) and wanted to give the i40 rim width a try. The X2 wheelset seems decent if heavy overall, with a few people eventually wearing out the rear hubs. Have done some fairly unique long motorcycle trips over time, including 'dirt bike and a map' for a week in a foreign country, longer trips etc., plus have spent some time on tracks with my cars, so I'm all about 'ensured reliability' as much as possible. The Arc i40 wheelset was fine, just felt like building a wheelset and tried the i35s. Pretty much a toss-up but might pick the i40s again in the future.

You can send me a DM if you'd like. Might be up for selling the Arc i40/DT set.

I wouldn't consider the X2 a motorcycle replacement - the Z1 would be closer to that, although still not as both are speed limited realistically to ~30mph(x2)-~35mph(z1), while the Z1's much bigger Ultra motor does better with sustained heat/thermal loads so is more tolerant of riding by throttle. The X2 is great, as an 'assisted mountain bike' - but not a mc replacement.


Not sure on the Q in there last line - I have kept my Ludi controller firmware up to date. The speed sensor works fine, meaning it's reading and displaying MPH. If you meant cadence sensor, the LudiV2 primarily or possibly even solely is using the torque sensor for assistance algorithms. I know there was some discussion on 'blending' the cadence sensor as another input, but don't think that's the case on current firmware.



Depends - I've had a similar display on my BBHSD fat tire bike, and they're neat but I don't like the placement as it's problematic if you need to flip the bike upside down for maintenance, and in reality it's just not really needed. The OE display meanwhile is nicely tucked out of the way. I wouldn't mind one slightly larger, like a CAN version of the 500C. Meanwhile, some others love the 860c, so YMMV. I just don't spend a lot of time looking at it at all.



Yep, 160mm, from Miranda direct, who shipped amazingly quickly to the US. https://mirandabikestore.com/shop/ebike/cranksets?motor=693
Unsure if they can be bought elsewhere other than their web shop right now.
Oh, that's disappointing to know the X2 is slower than the Z1. I specifically asked LUNA which bike is faster, & which would suit me better for the different types of riding. They specifically said the X2 Ludicrous was way faster than the Z1. That Z1 would be better if I plan to ride throttle all the time, but I don't. I was diagnosed with Sclerosis, & this is meant to get me back into the fight. The disease causes constant pain & suffering. So I had to sell my Z1000, though I do have a 1100hpmax 900hp daily driver Race Car. That is sitting in my garage unused. It needs to be gone through again. My friend snapped my driveshaft when I let him drive it, & now it needs a full drivetrain rebuild. Last time I let anyone drive my race car. The worst part is he broke the week before I planned to tune down & put a smaller turbo on it. I love my cars. My motorcycle was custom tuned as well. Every Motorsport item I have owned has been custom-tuned. MY 2007 Kawasaki Z1000 Ran a DynoJet PowerCommander combined with Power Commander accessories like Quickshifter/. Allowed me to switch between different maps on the fly. I miss that bike. The Talon runs AEM STandalone EMS v2. Love my toys. But Motorcycle is sold. I had talked to LUNA so many times, & they swore up & down that the X2 was way faster then the Z1 in PAS or throttle. Now I feel I may of made the wrong choice. too late to turn back now. maybe I will just buy myself a used Dirtbike to mess around on. I had a lot of toys at one time. Before I got diagnosed with this disease. I will for sure message you about the rims, are they the Offset ARC40 rims, with straight-spoke 350 hubs?
 

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rtp

Active Member
Region
USA
My fear is breaking down 20miles away with no service, or backup parts to repair on trail. I will probably stick with the 11speed conversion. I will admit I like the Shimano Deore XT 8100 11speed GroupSet running micro spline driver. But now that I read about the LinkGlide I am reconsidering the micro-spline setup. That seems to be a hard drivetrain to pass on because great bang for your buck & super strong. But so is the SRAM GX 11speed groupset running XD driver. I haven't gotten my new Luna X2 Ludicrous yet, it's still in route with Fed-Ex(for some reason taking a long time to get here). I haven't ridden many bikes running SRAM, so I can only go by the research I've done. I will luckily be able to compare the LUNA SRAM setup to the Shimano drivetrain on my dad's FLX which I ride all the time. Hopefully, that will help me figure out which way to go. Do you like the Shimano better or are you an SRAM guy? I also plan to upgrade my Brakes eventually to Magura(I'm German & try to go German when I can.)
’Bulletproof’ on an ebike groupset is a bit optimistic. Chains, cassettes wear pretty quickly on ebikes, even moreso those using throttles heavily and/or not smoothly. LinkGlide was specifically made for ebikes, or at least is claimed to be. Box 8/9 also targets ebikes. Both of these are reasonably priced for replacements, while SRAM’s ebike and X01 are crazy $$ and don’t make much financial sense to me.
When you upgraded your Front/Rear Rotors how come you didn't go to 203mm? Is it because the SRAM guide caliper can only accept a max 200mm rotor? I was planning on sticking with the 6bolt rotor setup on the Hubs when I get them. Thanks again for all your help.
Calipers don’t matter much here vs the caliper mounting bracket. Could have gone to 203 but 3mm difference is mostay a marketing gimmick IMO while a bit harder to find, and I wanted the red Hope rotors, which were already difficult to find at the time..

B4 your posts I never even thought about LinkGlide. I considered going with Shimano Micro Spline Driver. But I am researching the 11speed LinkGlide and they compare it to the HG just saying it's more Robust for ROUGH mountainous terrain. Makes me wonder if linkglide & micro spline can be run together? Can you even Buy a high-quality hub that is running Linkglide? Or does Linkglide run on HG+ driver? because I am having trouble finding a linkglide-specific driver. I am for sure loving the linkGlide setup as I research it now. What Driver does linkglide use HG? Or HG+? Can you get LinkGlide Hub with a 6bolt rotor still? I only see 1 hub offered by Shimano for linkglide system & it has Center Lock disk brake & wouldn't work with my boost setup anyway. For some reason I expected Linkglide to run a specific driver to Linkglide. But this kit https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/deore-xt-m8130.html is basically the exact kit I wanted to run if I switched to SHIMANO, only I had planned to go with Micro Spline. Now I wonder if that's just a waste of money or not? LinkGlide is meant to be paired with the much weaker Shimano EP5000 I think I read.
Seems perfect. Now I want to find a Comparative SRAM drivetrain. Is running an HG driver a better way to go with E-bikes? When you built your wheels did you stick to the HG driver or did you buy Hub where you can swap out drivers? Thanks for reading my long post. You guys rock! I really appreciate the e-bike education you both have given me.
HG ‘Hybrid’ driver, which is steel. There’s no such thing as a LinkGlide hub - they use HG drivers for LG cassettes.
DT hubs can change hub drivers if I ever want to - I converted my ARC40s from XD to (steel) HG.
 

rtp

Active Member
Region
USA
I found an Unlocking system that unlocks CANBUS displays(WITHOUT THE BESST tool) & removes speed limit/governor. Just the other day.

I found an Unlocking system that unlocks CANBUS displays(WITHOUT THE BESST tool) & removes the speed limit/governor, & allows you to reprogram the M600. Just the other day.
in the video description he says this cable doesn't work with a triangular connector, but you can triangle plug on Alibaba that works with the Speed app as well. They just released 2022+ cable.
It uses the same app but it does work with the m600, I found it on Alibaba Chinese site. This supposedly works with M600. Another option is to upgrade to EggRider V2 on Canbus bikes, & use this app w/bluetooth to upgrade and unlock the controller.
The CANBUS controllers are very different, it’s not just the cable connection. Possible but somewhat unlikely the speed app works on M600, but regardless the Ludiv2 is an entirely different controller with its own app.
Eggrider doesn’t work with OE M600 or any CAN motors.
 

rtp

Active Member
Region
USA
Oh, that's disappointing to know the X2 is slower than the Z1. I specifically asked LUNA which bike is faster, & which would suit me better for the different types of riding. They specifically said the X2 Ludicrous was way faster than the Z1. That Z1 would be better if I plan to ride throttle all the time, but I don't. I was diagnosed with Sclerosis, & this is meant to get me back into the fight. The disease causes constant pain & suffering. So I had to sell my Z1000, though I do have a 1100hpmax 900hp daily driver Race Car. That is sitting in my garage unused. It needs to be gone through again. My friend snapped my driveshaft when I let him drive it, & now it needs a full drivetrain rebuild. Last time I let anyone drive my race car. The worst part is he broke the week before I planned to tune down & put a smaller turbo on it. I love my cars. My motorcycle was custom tuned as well. Every Motorsport item I have owned has been custom-tuned. MY 2007 Kawasaki Z1000 Ran a DynoJet PowerCommander combined with Power Commander accessories like Quickshifter/. Allowed me to switch between different maps on the fly. I miss that bike. The Talon runs AEM STandalone EMS v2. Love my toys. But Motorcycle is sold. I had talked to LUNA so many times, & they swore up & down that the X2 was way faster then the Z1 in PAS or throttle. Now I feel I may of made the wrong choice. too late to turn back now. maybe I will just buy myself a used Dirtbike to mess around on. I had a lot of toys at one time. Before I got diagnosed with this disease. I will for sure message you about the rims, are they the Offset ARC40 rims, with straight-spoke 350 hubs?
Search other owner threads. With some effort, I can get my Ludi x2 to hit 30mph. I rarely use throttle but will try another throttle top speed run when I remember. Going to a 40T chainring will add a couple MPH top end. My BBHSD bike had no issues getting to 36mph, which is around where I’ve seen several Z1 owners say, as well as many Ultra/M620 owners (same motor is on MANY bikes).

Heat is simple - M600 is much smaller and lighter, so less metal to both absorb generated heat and to shed it like a heat sink. BBHSD and M620 can run near max output for a very long time, while M600, especially at 1KW or higher, can not. Not a real issue for most, using the bike more or less as designed, on trails, but the M620/Z1 is much better suited for ‘ride by throttle’ riders IMO. Heck, at that point, why even get a torque-sensing motor vs a BBHSD? My BBHSD fat tire bike is for sale, but I mostly use the X2 in lower assistance levels.