Mid-Drive Motor & Mechanical 9 Speed Drivetrain - What Gear to Engage, & When?

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
Where you got the idea that I'm condemning all throttle users IDK. I'm just pointing out that some riders (of course, not you, who is above reproach) can overuse throttle when starting out leading to control issues, especially in heavy traffic situations.
Other posters here (see alaskan, for example) have made the case that throttle for them can be a very positive feature. Maybe if you spent time explaining to others how throttle helps you, rather than mis-interpreting and bashing other posters, you might actually add value to the discussion.
You’ve bashed throttles a number of times. I’m just not motivated enough to dig out the quotes, but maybe you should and perhaps you’ll jog your memory.
 

HCooke

Member
Region
USA
You guys are making this way too complicated. Put a tachometer on the engine and upshift when the rpm's get to 5000 and down shift when they get below 1500!
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
You guys are making this way too complicated. Put a tachometer on the engine and upshift when the rpm's get to 5000 and down shift when they get below 1500!
Electric motors generally don't need to play that game like an IC (internal combustion) motor might.
You wont see many transmissions on electric cars for instance.

Mid drives do play by a little different set of rules, with the smaller (say 250w or so) motors being more picky/correct gear critical that the bigger ones (1000w+).
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
Comment from another non-contributor. Your posts are mostly criticizing what others have posted - nothing constructive. Another add to my block list...
Apparently pointing out your misconceptions and misinformation coupled with your denial of your critical throttle posts is non contributory.
 

mail_e36

Member
You guys are making this way too complicated. Put a tachometer on the engine and upshift when the rpm's get to 5000 and down shift when they get below 1500!

Thanks for the inpu, everyone.

Does anyone know how to get tachometer-type functionality/insight/reading on the Bafang Ultra with the DPC 18 display?

That would be golden if we could see the RPMs of the motor! :)
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Thanks for the inpu, everyone.

Does anyone know how to get tachometer-type functionality/insight/reading on the Bafang Ultra with the DPC 18 display?

That would be golden if we could see the RPMs of the motor! :)
I care about my RPM, not the motor! Motor power? Yes. RPM? No....
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Thanks for the inpu, everyone.

Does anyone know how to get tachometer-type functionality/insight/reading on the Bafang Ultra with the DPC 18 display?

That would be golden if we could see the RPMs of the motor! :)
I think, after a while, you'll find yourself using your watt meter to monitor that motor. It's very easy to see how much load is on it at any given time. Keep that minimized to maximize mileage between charges, and monitor it to help select the right gear and PAS level. Lot's of watts in use show potential lugging. If you aren't in a big hurry, try dropping a couple of gears or a PAS level to see how that compares.

Electric motors have a huge (wide) power band they are comfortable operating in (as mentioned, check out transmissions used in electric cars - there isn't one as there is no need for it). They are nothing like an internal combustion engine that needs to be kept within a narrow power band to run efficiently maximize power. In fact, most motors we'll see in these bikes are making max power (torque) from the time they leave a stop sign....

Too, selecting the "right" gear is mostly about your preferred cadence level. The "right" gear is the gear you use to maintain your preferred cadence level. The motor doesn't really care what that is (it's watching your PAS level mostly). When you are motoring along all fat, dumb, and happy and approach a hill for instance, it's going to become difficult to maintain your favorite cadence. So you have some choices to make. You can increase your PAS level to ask for some extra help from the motor, or you can drop a couple of gears to let the motor continue "as-is" and YOU supply the necessary power to climb through a gear reduction, maintaining that preferred cadence level.

All this is a lot to think about at first. Most of us, myself included, totally sucked when it came to riding an e-bike efficiently early on. After a while, things start making more sense, and by time you get a couple hundred miles on, things will have a lot more focus as you build some experience.

My first e-bike was about 2015. To this day I play a game with myself. It's about how many miles I can get on a charge.... That's the easiest way to judge how efficiently you are riding.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The instructions on how to ride a powerful mid drive like the Bafang Ultra or BBSHD (or Cyclone, Cyc X1 etc.) are pretty much generic. You will not find anything speed- or rpm-based because there are so very many variables. I summed it up into one sentence in the article linked below

Keep the motor spinning

There is more to it than that, hence the reason the article exists. But it all boils down to that one short snippet. Things like gearing, body weight and terrain will significantly alter any table or chart you try to cook up. Instead, you should learn the issues that create the guidelines, follow them and quit worrying. It will only take a minute or three to figure out.


As to this throttle business, its worth pointing out even the most powerful mid drive does not introduce bicycle control issues via throttle versus pedal assist. Both can produce undesirable results and throttle no more so than PAS.
 
Last edited:

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Apologies, not following, would you please elaborate on your statement. Thank you in advance.
Ahicks gave as good a description as I could. Motor RPM don't give you any useful information, because, depending on your gearing and pedaling (or throttle?) your motor could be spinning fast but producing very little torque, and therefore very little power. Remember that rpm x torque = power, which is what matters for us bike riders, at least in peddle assist mode.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
The instructions on how to ride a powerful mid drive like the Bafang Ultra or BBSHD (or Cyclone, Cyc X1 etc.) are pretty much generic. You will not find anything speed based because there are so very many variables. I summed it up into one sentence in the article linked below



There is more to it than that, hence the reason the article exists. But it all boils down to that. Things like gearing, body weight and terrain will significantly alter any table or chart you try to cook up. Instead, you should learn the issues that create the guidelines, follow them and quit worrying. It will only take a minute or three to figure out.


As to this throttle business, its worth pointing out even the most powerful mid drive does not introduce bicycle control issues via throttle versus pedal assist. Both can produce undesirable results and throttle no more so than PAS.
First link not working....
 

mail_e36

Member
I think, after a while, you'll find yourself using your watt meter to monitor that motor. It's very easy to see how much load is on it at any given time. Keep that minimized to maximize mileage between charges, and monitor it to help select the right gear and PAS level. Lot's of watts in use show potential lugging. If you aren't in a big hurry, try dropping a couple of gears or a PAS level to see how that compares.

Electric motors have a huge (wide) power band they are comfortable operating in (as mentioned, check out transmissions used in electric cars - there isn't one as there is no need for it). They are nothing like an internal combustion engine that needs to be kept within a narrow power band to run efficiently maximize power. In fact, most motors we'll see in these bikes are making max power (torque) from the time they leave a stop sign....

Too, selecting the "right" gear is mostly about your preferred cadence level. The "right" gear is the gear you use to maintain your preferred cadence level. The motor doesn't really care what that is (it's watching your PAS level mostly). When you are motoring along all fat, dumb, and happy and approach a hill for instance, it's going to become difficult to maintain your favorite cadence. So you have some choices to make. You can increase your PAS level to ask for some extra help from the motor, or you can drop a couple of gears to let the motor continue "as-is" and YOU supply the necessary power to climb through a gear reduction, maintaining that preferred cadence level.

All this is a lot to think about at first. Most of us, myself included, totally sucked when it came to riding an e-bike efficiently early on. After a while, things start making more sense, and by time you get a couple hundred miles on, things will have a lot more focus as you build some experience.

My first e-bike was about 2015. To this day I play a game with myself. It's about how many miles I can get on a charge.... That's the easiest way to judge how efficiently you are riding.
Excellent thoughtful response, thank you so much!
 

mail_e36

Member
The instructions on how to ride a powerful mid drive like the Bafang Ultra or BBSHD (or Cyclone, Cyc X1 etc.) are pretty much generic. You will not find anything speed- or rpm-based because there are so very many variables. I summed it up into one sentence in the article linked below



There is more to it than that, hence the reason the article exists. But it all boils down to that one short snippet. Things like gearing, body weight and terrain will significantly alter any table or chart you try to cook up. Instead, you should learn the issues that create the guidelines, follow them and quit worrying. It will only take a minute or three to figure out.


As to this throttle business, its worth pointing out even the most powerful mid drive does not introduce bicycle control issues via throttle versus pedal assist. Both can produce undesirable results and throttle no more so than PAS.
M@Robertson, your incredible web site is fantastic, thank you for the effort you put in publishing the articles.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Y. O.
Where you got the idea that I'm condemning all throttle users IDK. I'm just pointing out that some riders (of course, not you, who is above reproach) can overuse throttle when starting out leading to control issues, especially in heavy traffic situations.
Totally not true. As a matter of fact when you need absolute control of power the throttle is your best option as PAS will bring you to a predetermined preset whilst throttle has instantaneous, unlimited variable control. Not to mention no weight shifting at slow speeds caused by pedaling.