mid drive w/ throttle ?

RoadWrinkle

Active Member
Most mid drive manufacturers other than Bafang don't even have an option for adding a throttle to the controller. It is easy to over heat a controller if you try to throttle away from a dead stop without pedaling or from too high a gear; same thing with steep hills. The motor producers don't want their systems stressed by a throttle. Its their business to engineer things, why not open the market to a whole new segment of riders?
 
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fxr3

Active Member
Most mid drive manufacturers other than Bafang don't even have an option for adding a throttle to the controller. It is easy to over heat a controller if you try to throttle away from a dead stop without pedaling or from too high a gear; same thing with steep hills. The motor producers don't want their systems stressed by a throttle.
You're likely correct. But cars and motorcycles with gas and Diesel engines are able to make it through those scenarios with a clutch or engine stalling. Then operator figures out what he can or cannot do and does it right. Couldn't breakers or fuses do theame?
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
You're likely correct. But cars and motorcycles with gas and Diesel engines are able to make it through those scenarios with a clutch or engine stalling. Then operator figures out what he can or cannot do and does it right. Couldn't breakers or fuses do theame?
Very different vehicles. None have derailleurs and we can't draw effective parallels. Just downshift like riding a normal bike without a electric assist. It's really that simple. You don't take off driving a manual transmission car in 4th gear. Doing so will trash the clutch.
 

fxr3

Active Member
Very different vehicles. None have derailleurs and we can't draw effective parallels. Just downshift like riding a normal bike without a electric assist. It's really that simple. You don't take off driving a manual transmission car in 4th gear. Doing so will trash the clutch.
I agree. I think that's what I meant. I guess. You're right, a regular bike won't allow yo to take off in wrong gear, .......
 

Joe Remi

Active Member
The kind of attitude that discriminates against an entire class of ebike users. Should they only be for fit riders in your estimation? Please enlighten us all.
That dumb comment was a response to me saying months ago that mid-drives don't need a throttle, which he interpreted as "shouldn't have one." That wasn't what I was saying (I still don't think mid-drives NEED throttle), and I mentioned later in the thread that I now have a BBS02 with one. To say that anybody with a throttle should buy a motorcycle is just silly: I pedal most of the time, and occasionally use the button as an assist in certain situations. I like having both, and much prefer it to my days on motorbikes when all rides required being in the car lane doing car speeds. Forget that jazz.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
It's hard to read the sarcasm. So let's be clear. Motorized bikes and throttles are the state of the art on eBike in the USA. Period. Haters find a new forum. Arguing about either here and you are nothing more or less than a troll.
 

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fxr3

Active Member
At the moment I don't think it will be that likely to see a throttle on these bikes. Bosch has said several times publicly that they won't put a throttle on their system and I imagine Brose will continue to follow suit. I know many that felt like they must have a throttle until they spent some time with a proper pedal assist bike. On paper it seems like the best option, but in application it's not all that it's cracked up to be.
Bosch also once said they wouldnt be selling windshield wiper blades at walmart.
Once yamaha and Shimano ramp up, then honda, kawi, suzuki jump in. Bosch will be proud about there wiper business. Being an old guy- i can deal with pedal only on st2. Im sure its where many "dont need a throttle" comments come from. I've come to like my jail broken st1 which gives me a throttle/ cruise control up to 22mph.
Inless your stuck in SoCal and have to drive
Up to 2 hours to ride a dirt bike. Any hotshoes that dont need a throttle to rip on their BICYCLE might consder a dirt bike. If you havent done it before- youll like it. If you have- even a throttled up pedal assist is quite a letdown.
It's hard to read the sarcasm. So let's be clear. Motorized bikes and throttles are the state of the art on eBike in the USA. Period. Haters find a new forum. Arguing about either here and you are nothing more or less than a troll.
 

fxr3

Active Member
I use excessive sarcasm. I love ebikes. I dont understand any of these guys who show a lot of inteligence and post woth obvious thought amd knowdledge........
Then, suggest that pedal assist bicycles are totally great, but add a throttle and its a different story.
"Once you ride a good pedal assodt bike- you will see no need for a throttle". Pretty much says it all- right there.
 

Al P

Active Member
I do the same thing with the Aurora. Just don't force it to downshift while going uphill unless you stop pedaling briefly.
 

Steven coker

New Member
Yes yes yes. I sent u a message rick I want power is like to be able to switch from pedal assist to throttle and back I know u could mash gears but there has to be a way around that. Looking forward to talking with u.
I'm delivering a bike to a friend that I finished, it has a throttle, a Bafang mid-drive and an ERT controller. Makes over 3000 watts and does 45mph, with proper ramping programmed in, it's as gentle as a kitten. Or as wild as a tiger!;) I wouldn't have an ebike without a throttle or with a 20mph limit! Most cars do well over the posted speed on any road. The limit is common sense. Ebikes should be the same. This bike won't be driven at top speed, but when a really big hill, a heavy load or an unsafe situation demands it, it will be able to deal with it, and have power to spare, just like your car. If Europeans want to build weak, throttle less, 20mph Ebikes, let Europeans ride them! Americans like POWER! Just look at the forum pages that support the Bosch drive, people are constantly trying to 'hack' them to get more power. Why not just build Ebikes that have power and a throttle in the first place?!:)
 

Drahuber

New Member
One area not discussed in support of throttles is for disabled people like me . I was a very keen cyclist before I got injured . Now I have a permanent disability and still want to cycle .
I have a very weak leg and despite using the pedal assist , there are times when I have to use the throttle. I am currently using a emotion neo 29er with a 250 w motor but is doesn't get me up steep bumps and hills when using my leg hard to trigger the torque assist ..because I just don't have the strength. So to the sarcastic anti throttle people about it being in some way cheating, I say watch out you never know what's coming down the road ..I didn't see my injury coming and now revel in my ability to still get out and ride . Btw I am thinking of upgrading to an Evelo delta ..more powerful mid drive bike with a throttle and some kind of new gear system .
 

scrambler

Active Member
So to the sarcastic anti throttle people about it being in some way cheating, I say watch out you never know what's coming down the road
This is a trend these days with the internet, people become narrow minded (at least in their words). If it does not suit them they feel compelled to shoot it down.
It is a sad trend of our century.

Btw I am thinking of upgrading to an Evelo delta ..more powerful mid drive bike with a throttle and some kind of new gear system .
The only thing I regret about the Evelo Delta, is that they used the BBS02 instead of the new Bafang Max Ultra. As a result, you only have a basic cadence sensor, instead of the Fully integrated Torque / cadence and speed sensor on the Ultra.
If the Delta had the Bafang Max Ultra and the new NuVinci N380x, I would probably be getting one :)
 

Drahuber

New Member
Thanks for info. I didn't realize it was only a cadence sensor. How will that effect my riding? I'm not a hardcore mtn biker but do have trails nearby that are on gravel and have some short steep parts.
 

scrambler

Active Member
Cadence sensor only detect your pedaling speed, so I find them unnatural, giving a sense of all or nothing assist, and requiring to constantly change the level of assist.
Torque based sensing system (actually a combination of torque/speed/cadence), are proportional to your pedaling effort. As you apply pressure on the pedal, the assist multiplies your strength using the motor. The result is a very natural feeling of extra power. You modulate the amount of motor assist by the effort you apply on the pedals, which is a very natural and responsive feel.

If you don't really care about the pedaling feeling, and will often use the throttle, it may not be a big deal. If you enjoy the feel of pedaling your bike, being 4 times more powerful, but keeping the same sensation of controlling the power with your effort, then the torque sensor based system makes a big difference (in my opinion).

The best for that is really to test different bikes with the two different systems. All the bikes using integrated system like Bosch or Brose use an integrated combination of Torque / speed / cadence. Other bikes with kits like the BBS01 or BBS02 or BBSHD, or with rear wheel direct hub motor, usually use only a cadence sensor.

Try both making sure to ask which system is used, and see if that is a big issue for you.
 

Dave Hutson

New Member
I think that whatever you prefer in your bicycle controls at least to me is your own personal preference and business as is mine. why people feel the need to inflict their idea of what is proper hardware largely depends on what they happen to be riding. Here is something that works, obey the rules of the trail, make courtesy to pedestrians walking, running, older folks, children etc. etc. your top priority if you're unable to do that you should stay home and annoy the people who love you, they are use to you and your childish behavior.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I use excessive sarcasm. I love ebikes. I dont understand any of these guys who show a lot of inteligence and post woth obvious thought amd knowdledge........
Then, suggest that pedal assist bicycles are totally great, but add a throttle and its a different story.
"Once you ride a good pedal assodt bike- you will see no need for a throttle". Pretty much says it all- right there.
Ridiculously narrow. Thankfully here in the USA that narrow view has no standing other than trolling a forum.
 

Dwight

New Member
I ordered the Evelo Delta and it is due to arrive tomorrow afternoon, I will report back next week how well the throttle works with a mid drive and a CVT. The torque rating is 120 nm, a push of the throttle should get me through the intersection quickly....