mid drives are not for everyone/throttles are fine

stanmiller

Active Member
I'm with you Vincent. I stopped posting too because it's sort of a one mind thing going on...

Indeed.

Members should follow one rule. This is an e-bike enthusiast forum. If you can't show enthusiasm for the topic or provide helpful information (i.e. how to install/repair or troubleshoot this or that) then don't post. Those negative posts don't provide value.

I'm a throttle enthusiast and think throttles (thumb ones in particular) are genius! Using the throttle I can safely navigate this washed out gully connecting trail and neighborhood road without pedaling. Attempting to pedal through this stretch would clip the pedals against the ground and bordering rocks leading to a possible crash. Walk? No way - I have a thumb throttle.

I also understand why those would prefer no throttle configurations. It fits the theme and perception of a 'bike.' Introducing a throttle shifts the bike into the perception of a motor vehicle. So this doesn't come down to a practical argument, the argument is over a feeling.

If I'm one of the big three bike sellers, I'd stick to offering no throttle e-bikes. After all I'm a bike manufacturer not making mopeds.
 
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MarkF

Active Member
Why should the big 3 offer no throttle? They will loose sales to many. My bike didn't come with a throttle, it was an add on option by Raleigh. I think that is a perfect way to go so your not stuck getting a throttle you don't want.
 

Nova Haibike

Well-Known Member
Why should the big 3 offer no throttle?

It is not a question of should or should not. The big 3 only sell mid-drives by Bosch, Brose, and Yamaha. None of those drives have a throttle option.

I suspect choosing only those drives has as much to do with meeting the regulations of all the different countries these bikes are sold, as it does their performance, reliability, warranty, and reputation.
 

WilliamT

Active Member
I rarely use the throttle and had removed them entirely on some of my ebikes. Previously, I used them to get going quickly when crossing an intersection. Since then, after blowing a controller trying to tow something too heavy, I just make sure I'm in a low gear instead.

One day I was riding farther than I should have and my knees weren't strong enough yet. I pulled something and it made pedaling very difficult and painful. I happen to be on one of my e-bikes that still had the throttle. I was going to call and have someone get me, but then realized I could try and throttle back. With 10 miles to go, I was able to make it back with the remaining battery. It really saved me that day. My knee felt better after I stopped pedaling and was able to recover the next day.

Now I leave my throttle on and carry a knee support wrap just in case. Occasionally I ride in places where you cannot get any cell phone reception. I didn't realize how useful a throttle was until that day.
 

AlanDB

Well-Known Member
I would think on a mid drive motor, there would need to be some kind of torque limiter in the circuitry to prevent using the throttle when going too slow in too high of a gear. Seems like it could be hard on the motor otherwise. I could definitely see putting a throttle on a mid drive ebike that has CVT gearing like the NuVinci. There have been a few times when I wished that my Gazelle Arroyo with the Bosch Performance motor had a throttle.
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
Just a modest observation: if you look at the several threads where people show photos of where they ride their e-bikes, it seems that nearly all of the people who are "living the dream" and riding a lot and riding to great places are doing so on mid-drives without throttles.

I agree that for a lot of people and for many use cases (commutes or utility bikes in a relatively flat city) throttle-equipped hub drive bikes are an okay choice.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
I have been friends with @vincent for over 4 years now.

In those years, she has had probably 10 different bikes (I listed few of them below). So, I am sure she knows what she is talking about.

Brands like Juiced, Volt, Rad enable people to get on bikes who would otherwise never think about E-bikes. Some of these bikes by default also have a throttle feature.
When I was visiting Nova Scotia last year, I was surprised to see Rad Power and Volt bikes on the road. No Trek, Giant or specialized bikes. The market demography is big enough to accommodate both.




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Daffyh

Member
I knew I wanted a throttle but saw the throttle debates and decided not to ask. I did my own searching and liked the Raleigh retroglide with throttle. I bought the bike and love it. I don't like that it only goes 20 mph only so my next bike will be a class 3 with throttle. That really limits whats available. I was glad to see Pushkar and Ravi talk about coming out with bikes that look great and have throttle options. I will always encourage anyone looking for a bike with throttle with my own stories of liking a bike with throttle.
Here in AU were stuck with 25kl/m and the idiots made throttles illegal on any ebike, rolls in Dualtron Thunder if i want fun above 25 klm/h..
 

pmcdonald

Well-Known Member
Here in AU were stuck with 25kl/m and the idiots made throttles illegal on any ebike, rolls in Dualtron Thunder if i want fun above 25 klm/h..

You can have a side of throttle with your motor here in AU, it just limits you to a 200W motor. I think the regulatory bodies down here, for better or worse, are a little keener not blur the lines between bike and .. whatever comes next.

Some friends have a throttle on their cargo ebike. I found it invaluable when taking off from standstill fully loaded with kids and shopping. They have their place. Why the controversy?
 
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Angela M.

Administrator
Staff member
Hey, guys! I want to apologize for the negative interactions you've encountered with other members of this forum. The biggest rule at EBR is to be kind. If someone finds it difficult to just ignore a post and feels the need to leave a negative comment, please click on the "report" link that can be found at the bottom of each post. A moderator will take a look at it and decide if the comment should be removed or edited and if the member should receive a message, warning, or be banned. We want EBR to be a friendly place where people come to learn and share with others. Thanks all!
 

Ken M

Well-Known Member
There is no doubt that torque/cadence/speed PAS is great for mountain biking where the assist mimics your input is the best way to go.

But if you are urban commuting I see no reason to add complexity because it's just very easy to moderate assist via a throttle. For some reason most people seem to think that if a throttle is being used on an ebike that the rider is not pedaling but that's entirely up to the rider. I feel that cadence and torque sensors and the typical e-cut off brakes that go with these PAS systems just add complexity / reduce reliability and add very little real world merit if you are an urban rider.

I know I'll be hammered by all the mid-drive owners (I own two) that feel that PAS is the only way to ride but many of them have never really ridden a throttle only ebike with a good throttle system like you can get from say a company like Grin on their Phaserunner.
 

Daffyh

Member
You can have a side of throttle with your motor here in AU, it just limits you to a 200W motor. I think the regulatory bodies down here, for better or worse, are a little keener not blur the lines between bike and .. whatever comes next.

Some friends have a throttle on their cargo ebike. I found it invaluable when taking off from standstill fully loaded with kids and shopping. They have their place. Why the controversy?
Dont know it sure doesnt bother me if its throttle or not, all i know is if i had a throttle i would use it because its there. Some hills around where I live even though not very long are steep. Plus my legs are pissweak due to health issues.
 

Bravesst

Member
Been a bit of a bike rider all my life (never too serious). I've always been in good shape, albeit some aches and pains at this age (let's just say baby boomer). I decided to take the ebike plunge to allow me to get back to riding (aching hip / back have prevented me recently). I really didn't know a hub motor from a humming bird, but wound up with an Addmotor Beach Cruiser 20 inch fat tire bike (the M-70, 750 Watts with pedal assist and throttle).

It's beyond fun to go back and forth with the PA (5 levels) or throttle. I am either on the road or paved paths (on Long Island, NY), with an occasional shortcut across a grass patch). I blast up any hill, and can easily maintain 20 mph on a straight away (pedal or throttle).

I love to pedal, or not, fast or slow, and this bike does that remarkably well.
 

alloo

Member
I own both a mid drive and a Class 2 bike. I like the Class 2 bike. If you don't have much hill climbing all you need is a hub motor ebike. The most important things when selecting a bicycle are fit, purpose, and satisfaction.
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
Throttles are great, used mostly on the trip back not on the way out when I have full energy. I have a Sonders with a 750 watt hub motor that works awesome on flat terrain, but not on the hills, so my next Ebike will be a mid-drive with a throttle. I want to throttle up large hills at 20 mph, the legal limit, if my bike can do that I will be happy.
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
Grown adults should be posting as they are grown adults and the Mods wouldn’t be needed IMHO. Biggest insults I notice are opinions posted as facts and no consideration of the other person thoughts, needs or even “feelings“ . Doesn’t allways work, there will be honest mistakes...
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
So on my return trip from the summer property 5/25, had the unfortunate experience that made me require a throttle on my electric bike.
Had a 2.5 deg fever 5/16-18, plus couldn't smell food odors (diet orange soda is especially pungent). Both symptoms of covid-19 but no breathing difficulty. Was wearing a 3M M95 mask in a store 5/13, maybe a very few virus leaked around it. Doesn't seal under my eyes as military gas mask does.
Temp normal 5/19 (95.0), rode bike 30 miles to summer property 5/20. Was a weather wreck out there, seriously needed work. Out there got awfully tired in the afternoons, but working very hard hauling out fallen tree that fell on my truck. Come back to town 5/25, start normally @ 1035, but by 1300, normal flat unpowered riding is running my heart rate up to 160 bpm. Felt 80 years old (which means usually that I have a fever). I can usually ride 8 mph on the flat at 120 bpm, even when I'm out of shape in May. Used the throttle & motor to power me home in 3.7 hours. Temperature was 2.5 deg high at home that day, today 3 deg high. So either covid-19 is back or the tick bite I got 5/20 gave me a fever. Either way, would have had to call a tow truck if I hadn't had electricity & a throttle to power me home. The electric bike does not cost me $600/mo payment and $400/mo insurance charge the way a new truck would.
 
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FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
So on my return trip from the summer property 5/25, had the unfortunate experience that made me require a throttle on my electric bike.
Had a 2.5 deg fever 5/16-18, plus couldn't smell food odors (diet orange soda is especially pungent). Both symptoms of covid-19 but no breathing difficulty. Was wearing a 3M M95 mask in a store 5/13, maybe a very few virus leaked around it. Doesn't seal under my eyes as military gas mask does.
Temp normal 5/19 (95.0), rode bike 30 miles to summer property 5/20. Was a weather wreck out there, seriously needed work. Out there got awfully tired in the afternoons, but working very hard hauling out fallen tree that fell on my truck. Come back to town 5/25, start normally @ 1035, but by 1300, normal flat unpowered riding is running my heart rate up to 160 bpm. Felt 80 years old (which means usually that I have a fever). I can usually ride 8 mph on the flat at 120 bpm, even when I'm out of shape in May. Used the throttle & motor to power me home in 3.7 hours. Temperature was 2.5 deg high at home that day, today 3 deg high. So either covid-19 is back or the tick bite I got 5/20 gave me a fever. Either way, would have had to call a tow truck if I hadn't had electricity & a throttle to power me home. The electric bike does not cost me $600/mo payment and $400/mo insurance charge the way a new truck would.

Get well soon and keep us posted on your recovery.