Misleading Motor Information

Sidthesurf

New Member
Hi court,

I’m a new guy here and have really enjoyed your ebike video reviews!

Why do you think ebike companies mislead us with their motor specs?

I have a RadMini step thru 2 that I purchased recently, from Rad Power Bikes. I really love my Mini and purchased it for it’s 750w Bafang motor, but it just won’t climb the steeper hills here in Asheville, NC.

It clearly states, on the Rad Power Bike website, that the Mini has a 750W brushless Bafang geared hub motor with 80 Nm of torque, 5:1 planetary gear reduction and that’s also confirmed in your video review. When I ask Rad about this, the answer is that the motor is rated at 750W continuous. I don’t think that’s the same as a 750w Bafang motor. When I emailed Bafang the serial/model this was their response;

We have check the serial number 20-1909161399-1 This is a 500W motor.

I’m looking forward to your response and keep up your great work!
 

jaizon

Member
Hi court,

I’m a new guy here and have really enjoyed your ebike video reviews!

Why do you think ebike companies mislead us with their motor specs?

I have a RadMini step thru 2 that I purchased recently, from Rad Power Bikes. I really love my Mini and purchased it for it’s 750w Bafang motor, but it just won’t climb the steeper hills here in Asheville, NC.

It clearly states, on the Rad Power Bike website, that the Mini has a 750W brushless Bafang geared hub motor with 80 Nm of torque, 5:1 planetary gear reduction and that’s also confirmed in your video review. When I ask Rad about this, the answer is that the motor is rated at 750W continuous. I don’t think that’s the same as a 750w Bafang motor. When I emailed Bafang the serial/model this was their response;

We have check the serial number 20-1909161399-1 This is a 500W motor.

I’m looking forward to your response and keep up your great work!
Join the club! There are numerous threads here regarding this very issue, just search for them. Bad business practice by an otherwise good company. They have handled this very poorly and everyday more and more people are getting pissed off. If you pay for a 750 w motor (nominal) then that's what you should get. Radpower should fix this and get their heads out of their asses. Best of luck with them.
 

Sidthesurf

New Member
Join the club! There are numerous threads here regarding this very issue, just search for them. Bad business practice by an otherwise good company. They have handled this very poorly and everyday more and more people are getting pissed off. If you pay for a 750 w motor (nominal) then that's what you should get. Radpower should fix this and get their heads out of their asses. Best of luck with them.
I agree! I think it’s a great company too and I love my Mini, but I need the extra power of the 750w motor as promised. Thanks for your reply!
 

BTfl

Member
Join the club! There are numerous threads here regarding this very issue, just search for them. Bad business practice by an otherwise good company. They have handled this very poorly and everyday more and more people are getting pissed off. If you pay for a 750 w motor (nominal) then that's what you should get. Radpower should fix this and get their heads out of their asses. Best of luck with them.
On the rad Power bike site, it States 750 W motor power, It does get up to 750 w, but it’s kind of sneaky because you would think it’s a 750 motor. My guess is they wouldn’t get the miles like they get if it was an actual 750
 

Sidthesurf

New Member
On the rad Power bike site, it States 750 W motor power, It does get up to 750 w, but it’s kind of sneaky because you would think it’s a 750 motor. My guess is they wouldn’t get the miles like they get if it was an actual 750
You are correct. A 750w Bafang motor will not have the range of the motor that’s on the Mini, but I need the power of the 750 watt motor to climb the hills around here. The point is, Rad, on it’s website, states that it is a 750w Bafang motor. When I emailed the serial number of the motor to Bafang they have confirmed that it’s a 500w Bafang motor, not a 750w motor.
 

GypsyTreker

Active Member
How can one say it's a great company when they sold, charged for and misrepresented what the person was buying? I mean if addressing the problem is to now be truthful by changing the specs? Pretty low bar to be considered a great company. Anyway the value of having a forum that posts experiences that are verified by other folks is it saves the people looking to make a choice some serious money.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Hi court,

I’m a new guy here and have really enjoyed your ebike video reviews!

Why do you think ebike companies mislead us with their motor specs?

I have a RadMini step thru 2 that I purchased recently, from Rad Power Bikes. I really love my Mini and purchased it for it’s 750w Bafang motor, but it just won’t climb the steeper hills here in Asheville, NC.

It clearly states, on the Rad Power Bike website, that the Mini has a 750W brushless Bafang geared hub motor with 80 Nm of torque, 5:1 planetary gear reduction and that’s also confirmed in your video review. When I ask Rad about this, the answer is that the motor is rated at 750W continuous. I don’t think that’s the same as a 750w Bafang motor. When I emailed Bafang the serial/model this was their response;

We have check the serial number 20-1909161399-1 This is a 500W motor.

I’m looking forward to your response and keep up your great work!
This problem is not exclusive to Rad.

Somebody here EBR(forgot who it was) on VoltBike Yukon 750 found it was the same, it was based on 350W/500W motor, over-volted to 750W.

After he switched to "real 750W" motor, he got a lot more torque and hill climbing performance was much better.
However he noted that the "real 750W" motor required a lot more juice.

At the end of his commute, he always had 3 bar of battery left, but as soon as he switched the motor, he was only getting 1 or 2 bars.
 

Black47

Member
I test rode an Aventon Pace 500 up a 15% grade with no problem. I was stopped at a light at the bottom and the intersection was pretty flat but it started climbing almost right after I cleared the intersection. I had it on the highest assist level and it was in a low gear at the light, I think it was second. I was doing about 8 mph when I got to the top and I was peddling pretty hard. I was rather surprised because I have bad knees. The Pace weigh about 49-50 pounds and most people complain about how quick it gets up to 12 mph in the lowest pas level, so this might have contributed to it doing so well. The Rad Rover weighs about 20 pounds more, but it is suppose to have a lot more newton meters (80) compared to the Pace (50).
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I test rode an Aventon Pace 500 up a 15% grade with no problem. I was stopped at a light at the bottom and the intersection was pretty flat but it started climbing almost right after I cleared the intersection. I had it on the highest assist level and it was in a low gear at the light, I think it was second. I was doing about 8 mph when I got to the top and I was peddling pretty hard. I was rather surprised because I have bad knees. The Pace weigh about 49-50 pounds and most people complain about how quick it gets up to 12 mph in the lowest pas level, so this might have contributed to it doing so well. The Rad Rover weighs about 20 pounds more, but it is suppose to have a lot more newton meters (80) compared to the Pace (50).
It's not that simple, you can't just look at the weights.

The Aventon Pace has much lighter and skinny tire compare to Rad Rover.

I won't pretend to be an expert, but apparently engineering is not that simple.
When I was a kid, I was at a motorcycle show and one of the Kawasaki engineers was giving us a presentation on weight reduction.

Basically, you can't just look at the total weight.
Where you reduce the weight is far more important.

He was giving us examples of "moving components", basically, he said that reducing weights from moving components such as crankshaft, cam shaft, sprockets, brake rotors, wheels, chains, etc... are far more important than frames.

For example, if you carry a 10 lb backpack (and make sure it doesn't move around and keep it tight to your body), can you still walk and run normally?
Yes you can.
On the other hand, what if you carry 10 lb weight on "moving component"? For example, can you run or walk normally by wearing 10 lb shoes?
No you can not.

Same thing as bicycle.
You said that Aventon weighs 50 lbs and Rad Rover weighs 20 lbs more.

But if you carry extra 20 lb of weight in you back pack, you may not notice much of difference.
It's only 20 lbs, I doubt you will feel any noticeable difference in terms of acceleration.

However, what if you put wheels that are 20 lb heavier? All the sudden bike will slow down significantly.
I'm not an engineering expert, but apparent this is called "Rotational Mass" , "Moment of Inertia", etc. in engineering.

If I remember correctly, adding weight on rims will affect the acceleration by (approximately) 10 times compare to carrying weight normally.
This is exactly why installing wheels that are 5 lbs lighter on motorcycles can have dramatic difference in acceleration.
However, if you shave 5 lbs off motorcycle from fairings, seat, frame, etc.. you won't notice any difference.
 

BTfl

Member
How can one say it's a great company when they sold, charged for and misrepresented what the person was buying? I mean if addressing the problem is to now be truthful by changing the specs? Pretty low bar to be considered a great company. Anyway the value of having a forum that posts experiences that are verified by other folks is it saves the people looking to make a choice some serious money.
I don’t believe it’s misrepresented it does go to 750 w, With the Bolton kit it can go up to around 1600 W, I don’t understand what the problem is when most of the time you’re riding around 500 W or less
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I think you were looking at the Canadian website, the US website listed as 750 W
I am not sure if you know what he's talking about.

I think the problem he is having is that, Rad Power is over-volting a motor that's meant for (or advertised as) 350W and making it 750W.

As you can see, if you open up the motor of Rad Rover, you can see the motor magnet, coil, stator, everything is small.
However it still has the beefy fat bike casing, so it is impossible to tell from out side.



Many ebike motors can be over-volted relatively safely.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I don’t believe it’s misrepresented it does go to 750 w, With the Bolton kit it can go up to around 1600 W, I don’t understand what the problem is when most of the time you’re riding around 500 W or less
I guess technically, it is not a misrepresentation because the motor is set to drain 750W of electricity.
But I guess he is having a problem because it's an over-volted 750W motor.
 

GypsyTreker

Active Member
I don’t believe it’s misrepresented it does go to 750 w, With the Bolton kit it can go up to around 1600 W, I don’t understand what the problem is when most of the time you’re riding around 500 W or less
So, based on some fuzzy logic, if I purchase a 750w hub motor on-line that's priced higher than a 500w or 350w it's ok if Im actually paying for on over volted version of a smaller motor? Seriously??