Motor torque..how concerned am I? 80 vs 50 Nm on Giant bike. Same price.

Primavera

New Member
Newbie Alert! At +/- the same price, do I move quickly and buy the 2020 Giant Explore E+ 4 or will the 2021 Roam E+ do?
Roam E+ looks to be the “replacement“ model for the Explore 2020 but not comparable in torque.
I‘m taking the advice to heart to buy a locally serviced, reliable, major name ebike. Giant seems to be well regarded and a softer price point for a newbie.
I set up the “compare the bike“ feature on Giant’s website and viewed the two above mentioned bikes.
Many features are the same but to my newbie eye, the torque seems the biggest different. Am I concerned?
I also saw the graph for hill power required....I AM CONCERNED.
The Explore 2020 comes with the SyncDrive Sport @ 80 Nm vs Roam 2021 with the SyncDrive Core @ 50 Nm.
The 2021 Explore E is showing 60Mn using the SyncDrive Life, plus added $.
The other major differences are in the shifter Shimano SL-M2000 vs Altus. Derailleur Shimano Deore vs Alvio.
Charger one is 3 A vs 4 A On the other. The batteries are the same @ 400.
We live in the typical North West: mountainsides, oceanfront and valleys.
Thanks for your comments
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
As far as I am concerned, mountain bikes are the only place where torque is critical. Everything else I can shift down and still climb just fine.
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Can you test ride them on the same hill? That’s the best way to answer this concern.
If it were me given the terrain you describe, I’d definitely go for the higher torque, all else being equal.
Good luck!
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Okay so I just looked at both Giant models that you mentioned, and looks like they're both hard tail, commuter type of ebike.

In terms of torque, or hill climbing capability, I would recommend these two.
You even said you were "CONCERNED" about torque figure.

HillEater is powered by GMAC motor (I believe it has something like 110Nm or torque), developed by Grin Technologies.

WattWagons has Bafang Ultra (160Nm) by default, but you can get GMAC if you prefer hub drive. It is more expensive because titanium frame, belt drive, etc.

Grin Technologies GMAC Motor

These two ebike companies have very good reputation for customer service.

HillEater Galiano
$4,499 Canadian
Salt Spring Island, British Columbia, Canada

WattWagons Ultimate Commuter Pro
$6499 US
Newton, Massachusetts, USA
 

Primavera

New Member
Hi Timpo
local shops offerings:
Cube is available. Kona, Santa Cruz and Specialized. Bento, Propel and Electra.
Trek is offered with Norco. Giant, Liv and Momentum. Alternate bikes are available further afield. The price point seemed attractive for the Giant bike and the reviews seemed adequat.
No sale until the bike is home 😎
 

RandallS

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Calgary
Personally, I would recommend the Explore. I test rode one a few times and came very close to purchasing one. I ended up with a Giant Fathom E+1 Pro instead, as I refocused where I intended to ride and it was rougher terrain that was more suitable on the hard tail MTB bike. On my test rides with the Explore, I rode a number of the hills up from the Bow River in Calgary and was very happy with the climbing abilities of the Syncdrive Sport motor that was on the Explore.

I'd suggest doing some reading in the Giant forum here https://electricbikereview.com/forums/forum/giant/
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Hi Timpo
local shops offerings:
Cube is available. Kona, Santa Cruz and Specialized. Bento, Propel and Electra.
Trek is offered with Norco. Giant, Liv and Momentum. Alternate bikes are available further afield. The price point seemed attractive for the Giant bike and the reviews seemed adequat.
No sale until the bike is home 😎
ah okay!

Well Giant isn't a bad choice, it's powered by Yamaha so the motor should be decent.

Also mid drive is pretty good for hill climbing too.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Whoever rode a bike with a SyncDrive Pro motor will feel the difference on steep hills. Still, it is not only the matter of the motor torque but also of the gearing. Both Giant e-bikes sport mediocre gearing, making the stronger Pro motor the preferred one.
@Primavera: You mentioned Cube. Look at Cube Kathmandu or Touring Hybrid e-bikes, these are captivating!
 

Adrian.s

Member
Newbie Alert! At +/- the same price, do I move quickly and buy the 2020 Giant Explore E+ 4 or will the 2021 Roam E+ do?
Roam E+ looks to be the “replacement“ model for the Explore 2020 but not comparable in torque.
I‘m taking the advice to heart to buy a locally serviced, reliable, major name ebike. Giant seems to be well regarded and a softer price point for a newbie.
I set up the “compare the bike“ feature on Giant’s website and viewed the two above mentioned bikes.
Many features are the same but to my newbie eye, the torque seems the biggest different. Am I concerned?
I also saw the graph for hill power required....I AM CONCERNED.
The Explore 2020 comes with the SyncDrive Sport @ 80 Nm vs Roam 2021 with the SyncDrive Core @ 50 Nm.
The 2021 Explore E is showing 60Mn using the SyncDrive Life, plus added $.
The other major differences are in the shifter Shimano SL-M2000 vs Altus. Derailleur Shimano Deore vs Alvio.
Charger one is 3 A vs 4 A On the other. The batteries are the same @ 400.
We live in the typical North West: mountainsides, oceanfront and valleys.
Thanks for your comments
If you can afford giant prices enjoy but there are less expensive bikes and maybe you get sooner thsn later other models iv been reading that everyone is waiting for ebikes ? I bought a radmission after alot of research,i too was debating between 80 nm and 50? Radrunner and mission but no hills in montreal the only mountains for me are those on tv lol its safe to climb on foot lolllll
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
To the original 50 vs 80 Nm question.
In my experience, I find your concern justified, exponentially, as your weight and the size of the hills in the area you ride in frequently get bigger!
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Well, I’ll throw the Trek Allant+7 out there as it has one of the best motors out there in the Bosch Performance Line CX. The free dealer-installed update gives this motor 85Nm of torque. The bike itself was the 2020 Dutch Ebike of the Year award winner and I love mine with over 800 miles and 6 months. You’ll find almost no issues with this bike on this forum. I added a different seat and bar ends but otherwise have not needed any real work done to it beyond a flat tire.
 

Primavera

New Member
Okay so I just looked at both Giant models that you mentioned, and looks like they're both hard tail, commuter type of ebike.

In terms of torque, or hill climbing capability, I would recommend these two.
You even said you were "CONCERNED" about torque figure.

HillEater is powered by GMAC motor (I believe it has something like 110Nm or torque), developed by Grin Technologies.

WattWagons has Bafang Ultra (160Nm) by default, but you can get GMAC if you prefer hub drive. It is more expensive because titanium frame, belt drive, etc.

Grin Technologies GMAC Motor

These two ebike companies have very good reputation for customer service.

HillEater Galiano
$4,499 Canadian
Salt Spring Island, British Columbia, Canada

WattWagons Ultimate Commuter Pro
$6499 US
Newton, Massachusetts, USA
Fabulous input. Salt Spring Island is close, I’ll look at them first. Cheers
Well, I’ll throw the Trek Allant+7 out there as it has one of the best motors out there in the Bosch Performance Line CX. The free dealer-installed update gives this motor 85Nm of torque. The bike itself was the 2020 Dutch Ebike of the Year award winner and I love mine with over 800 miles and 6 months. You’ll find almost no issues with this bike on this forum. I added a different seat and bar ends but otherwise have not needed any real work done to it beyond a flat tire.
The Trek rates very well. Thanks for the recommendation.
 

Primavera

New Member
To the original 50 vs 80 Nm question.
In my experience, I find your concern justified, exponentially, as your weight and the size of the hills in the area you ride in frequently get bigger!
Fair enough, lots of flat land here but the glacier is in view of the valley. Cheers
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Fabulous input. Salt Spring Island is close, I’ll look at them first. Cheers
You should give them a call (1-250-538-0911), people here on EBR have dealt with HillEater and they had a pleasant experience with them.

Grin Technologies (Vancouver, Canada) is their supplier for motor, display, controller, sensor, etc..
Whereas other big corporations are all made in China, Japan, Germany, or in Giant's case, Taiwanese company (Giant) and Japanese component (Yamaha).

Grin is a renown company in ebike industry, they have GMAC motor, CycleAnalyst display, PhaseRunner controller, Satiator battery charger, etc.

So I guess HillEater is trying to stay "local" in their area as possible?
 

Coolbob

Active Member
I'm riding a 2020 Momentum Transend E+ which is made by Giant with a Yamaha Giant SyncDrive Life motor rated at 60Nm. Instead of a 9-speed derailleur it has a Shimano Nexus C3000, 7-speed rear hub trading gear range for simplicity and since it's a class-3, it's geared much higher than either the Roam or Explore and only has a single 42-tooth chain ring.

There are two hills in town that were thigh busters for me on my previous Cannondale mountain bike. I would shift down to the lowest gear and have to pace myself to climb these hills, or I would only make it half way and be exhausted and have to walk the bike up the rest of the hill. Climbing these steep hills is easy while still sitting down in 2nd or 3rd gear in 'Auto' assist mode on the Transend E+.

There's also a short 'impossible' hill has a four-way stop at the bottom and a very steep hill in each direction. I made it a point to avoid this hill when riding my Cannondale. When driving through this intersection in my 6-speed Audi turbo I would either gun the car from the stop in first gear and quickly shift into second gear, or just leave it in first gear and get up the hill going about 20mph at 4000rpm. On a recent bike ride I forgot to avoid the intersection from hell and of course there was traffic so I had to come to a complete stop at the intersection on the Transend E+. I shifted to 1st gear, bumped the assist level to '5' and made it up the hill with relative ease. 60Nm is plenty for my needs.
 
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rdowns

Well-Known Member
Well, I’ll throw the Trek Allant+7 out there as it has one of the best motors out there in the Bosch Performance Line CX. The free dealer-installed update gives this motor 85Nm of torque. The bike itself was the 2020 Dutch Ebike of the Year award winner and I love mine with over 800 miles and 6 months. You’ll find almost no issues with this bike on this forum. I added a different seat and bar ends but otherwise have not needed any real work done to it beyond a flat tire.
Very similar experience. I just passed 600 miles and I have had my bike not quite 2 months. It is very hilly where I live in the Black Hills. 1 flat. My bike is the +7s but the motors are identical. Also, it is very stable. I have not had opportunity to ride a giant but my giant full suspension acoustic bike is quite wonderful, though I wonder if it will get ridden much any more.
 

Primavera

New Member
I'm riding a 2020 Momentum Transend E+ which is made by Giant with a Yamaha Giant SyncDrive Life motor rated at 60Nm. Instead of a 9-speed derailleur it has a Shimano Nexus C3000, 7-speed rear hub trading gear range for simplicity and since it's a class-3, it's geared much higher than either the Roam or Explore and only has a single 42-tooth chain ring.

There are two hills in town that were thigh busters for me on my previous Cannondale mountain bike. I would shift down to the lowest gear and have to pace myself to climb these hills, or I would only make it half way and be exhausted and have to walk the bike up the rest of the hill. Climbing these steep hills is easy while still sitting down in 2nd or 3rd gear in 'Auto' assist mode on the Transend E+.

There's also a short 'impossible' hill has a four-way stop at the bottom and a very steep hill in each direction. I made it a point to avoid this hill when riding my Cannondale. When driving through this intersection in my 6-speed Audi turbo I would either gun the car from the stop in first gear and quickly shift into second gear, or just leave it in first gear and get up the hill going about 20mph at 4000rpm. On a recent bike ride I forgot to avoid the intersection from hell and of course there was traffic so I had to come to a complete stop at the intersection on the Transend E+. I shifted to 1st gear, bumped the assist level to '5' and made it up the hill with relative ease. 60Nm is plenty for my needs.
Grateful for your insigh!