My 1st Day with the new Allant+ 9.9S

rich c

Well-Known Member
My Haibike runs everything internally. I wasn't in the mood to pull the shifter cable to lube it. Turned the bike upside down in the stand, and started dribbling some thin chain lube I had on the bare cable back by the derailleur. Just a few drops so it ran down the cable into the sheath. Did that every 20 minutes or so, for around 4 hours. Left it upside down all night. In the morning, the effort was at least half what it was.
 

Rick53

Active Member
The odd part to the trigger shifter dilemma is I had the exact same experience when I rode the Allant+ 9.9S in NYC a few months ago when it was there at the Trek Store on W.72nd St. for a week and I had complained then too, and got the same answer.
Uggggggggggggg, back to the thumb splint, it's killin' me.
DON'T PEDDLE WHEN SHIFTING !!!!!!!! A question I don't see Addressed : ARE you Remembering to not peddle during shifting ? Are you remembering that this system is design to dump 2-3 cogs at one time . Without Peddling ???? I just asked the Trek Tech Guy Online : That was the first question he asked Me.

Unless I missed this in Other comments : Cort has mentioned this in Multiple videos . Particularly with the Bosch System > Plus I remember other Threads where people with different Bikes mentioned it felt as though they were fighting : I apologize I forgot about this : Go watch a Few of Cort's Videos Where he reviews Treks or Just Bikes with the Bosch System : He mentions this Don't Peddle while shifting Often.

Trek has their Bikes Perfectly adjusted from teh Factory > There's nothing the LBS should have even had to do . Other then Handlebar,Seat and Front Wheel Install. I would bet they didn't even touch the Shifters

GO FOR A RIDE and try not peddling between shifts : Bet that's your ISSUE : I would also Bet Most of these LBS have no idea You need to do that > After all E-bikes have been around for Awhile : But it's only been the last 2-3 years that Their Popularity has taken off : It's Probable Your LOCAL LBS doesn't even know that >

AS I JUST SAID : I know I've seen other Threads complaining about fighting to Shift : And I know Cort has Mentioned it : In fact Watch any of his videos with the Test Ride and you'll see him stop peddling to shift :
 

GuruUno

Active Member
Did another 20 miles today here in NJ, a bit windy and colder, but got out nonetheless.
Regarding 'noises'; there is definitely some sort of odd noise while pushing/pedaling any speed (Eco, Tour, Sport, Turbo) and I'll give things a while to "break-in" (?), before pushing the envelope.
Although the new Bosch motor is much, much quieter than the previous generation, there is an odd noise when pedaling. I can liken it to the noise a creaky box springs make wile moving rapid on a mattress (engaged in a vigorous physical activity). That's the best way to describe the similarity of the noise I hear. If I stop pedaling, the noise stops.
ME....my opinion, it's something to do with the way the motor is mounted in the frame and the resonance of the movement of the gears and/or bearings.
Either this is a defacto standard 'way it is' or I have a problem. I'd like to know if anyone else with the same bike has heard any similar noises. ONLY reason I have concerns is that these types of noises progressively got worse on my previous Super Commuter 8 leading to not only a motor replacement but ultimately in replacement of the entire bike this July.
I'm hoping it a break-in noise. Time will tell.
 

GuruUno

Active Member
DON'T PEDDLE WHEN SHIFTING !!!!!!!! A question I don't see Addressed : ARE you Remembering to not peddle during shifting ? Are you remembering that this system is design to dump 2-3 cogs at one time . Without Peddling ???? I just asked the Trek Tech Guy Online : That was the first question he asked Me.

Unless I missed this in Other comments : Cort has mentioned this in Multiple videos . Particularly with the Bosch System > Plus I remember other Threads where people with different Bikes mentioned it felt as though they were fighting : I apologize I forgot about this : Go watch a Few of Cort's Videos Where he reviews Treks or Just Bikes with the Bosch System : He mentions this Don't Peddle while shifting Often.

Trek has their Bikes Perfectly adjusted from teh Factory > There's nothing the LBS should have even had to do . Other then Handlebar,Seat and Front Wheel Install. I would bet they didn't even touch the Shifters

GO FOR A RIDE and try not peddling between shifts : Bet that's your ISSUE : I would also Bet Most of these LBS have no idea You need to do that > After all E-bikes have been around for Awhile : But it's only been the last 2-3 years that Their Popularity has taken off : It's Probable Your LOCAL LBS doesn't even know that >

AS I JUST SAID : I know I've seen other Threads complaining about fighting to Shift : And I know Cort has Mentioned it : In fact Watch any of his videos with the Test Ride and you'll see him stop peddling to shift :
I NEVER PEDAL WHILE SHIFTING
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
Did another 20 miles today here in NJ, a bit windy and colder, but got out nonetheless.
Regarding 'noises'; there is definitely some sort of odd noise while pushing/pedaling any speed (Eco, Tour, Sport, Turbo) and I'll give things a while to "break-in" (?), before pushing the envelope.
Although the new Bosch motor is much, much quieter than the previous generation, there is an odd noise when pedaling. I can liken it to the noise a creaky box springs make wile moving rapid on a mattress (engaged in a vigorous physical activity). That's the best way to describe the similarity of the noise I hear. If I stop pedaling, the noise stops.
ME....my opinion, it's something to do with the way the motor is mounted in the frame and the resonance of the movement of the gears and/or bearings.
Either this is a defacto standard 'way it is' or I have a problem. I'd like to know if anyone else with the same bike has heard any similar noises. ONLY reason I have concerns is that these types of noises progressively got worse on my previous Super Commuter 8 leading to not only a motor replacement but ultimately in replacement of the entire bike this July.
I'm hoping it a break-in noise. Time will tell.
Check the saddle mounts. Noise while pedaling can come from anywhere. Hard to imagine every single Trek is adjusted to perfection from the factory. Nothing is 100%
 

GuruUno

Active Member
Not the saddle mounts. Aware of that. Pedaling and pushing if my butt is not seated (while standing and pedaling) as a troubleshooting step has been done with no change.
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
I have heard some minor creaking from the Allant 9.9s but it sounded like frame or stem/handlebar area maybe - not motor. After my initial ride, I asked the LBS just to recheck and confirm that everything was torqued to spec. On my almost 20 mile ride yesterday which included the new seatpost, I did hear some minor creaking noise from time to time. Moreso at the end of the ride. This is the first carbon bike I've ridden so I chalked it up maybe to the material plus the cold? It is very minor so my thinking was to monitor over time.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I had some creaking when pedaling on my Delight Mountain. It turned out to be the rear 15mm through axle needed another quarter turn. No problem since. It is almost impossible to pinpoint those creaking noises as they resonate through the whole bike. Sometimes you just have to go through the bike with a torque wrench and make sure all connections are adequately tightened to the correct torque value.
 

Rob NJ

Active Member
Up shifting, zero difficulty. Downshifting (pushing), extremely hard.
As a side note, my wife's Townie Commute 8 has a 'twist shift', which is as difficult. Downshifting (twisting towards yourself), very, very hard. They also said, 'that's the way it is".
So, I am on a quest. Going to call Shimano on Monday.
Found THIS post that has interesting info. (I understand it's not my shifter, but it's the info in the article that's relevant)

On a side note, you went out today in this miserable weather? You really must be Jones'in for that bike!!
Just got back from the LBS with my Allant 9.9S. It shifts very hard and clunks. The first thing the bike mechanic did was remove the shift cable, put in a new one that was "super smooth", and we tested the resistance without the derailleur or shifter hooked up. Super smooth, no resistance. He replaced the cable ends, which have some kind of special seal against dirt, but might cause more drag. So the twists and turns of the cable through the bike are good. No resistance, very smooth and easy.

With no cable attached, I was working the shifter. It is extremely hard to shift, both up and down. He lubed it as best he could. Told me that there was just one Shimano shifter above it in terms of quality, so the shifter is supposed to be of very high quality. But I think a lot of the problem lies with the shifter. I can try my wife's SuperCommuter side by side and it is easy and smooth. This shifter is very tight and hard to use. I asked the mechanic if it would loosen up over time and be better, but he did not believe it would.

According to the mechanic, the derailleur is actually for mountain biking. Good and tough. There is a lever on it that will restrict the travel, made for rough terrain, it will dampen the shifter and make it less prone to rattle on rough rides. This damper (if that is what you call it) might also add to the difficulty shifting. He put it in the non-dampening mode to ensure it would be the easiest to shift.

After all of this, I did take it for a short ride. It seems a bit better, but still getting that clunk. Need to ride it a bit and get a better idea what is going on. On the Supercommuter when you would shift the motor senses it and briefly lets up. It feels to me that the time for the motor to pause is shorter and it is the motor kicking in more quickly than the SC. I don't know. Need to put some miles on it to really gain some sense of what is going on.

We are going to Nashville for New Year, then continuing on the FL for a few weeks. Will get plenty of riding there, so I can "break it in" and try and figure out the issues. The Shimano shifter is one issue for me, and the clunking is the second. Maybe I just need to get used to the bike. We will see.

Happy Holidays.
 

GuruUno

Active Member
Well, I went out yesterday with our local CJBC (Central Jersey Bicycle Club) https://cjbc.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?sl=1506243560
and it was the 1st 'long tern' 19+ mile "test" of my new $6k bike.
Overall, very happy with performance, experience....but (not to be a negative nellie) LOTS of grunts and groans and noises and swish, noises from the motor. Also, shifting was a bit hard, as previously described.
Did another 12 miles today, same crap.
Nice weather (for NJ), gonna do more time tomorrow, onwards, and Friday another bike club run.
After the 1st of the year and a few 100 miles, I'll consider complaining, as my expectations have not been satisfied......so far
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
...LOTS of grunts and groans and noises and swish, noises from the motor. Also, shifting was a bit hard, as previously described.
Did another 12 miles today, same crap...
Any chance your noises could be the hub and not the motor? My Haibike is very distinctive in its angry bees noise. On, my Allant 9.9s, the bees are still angry but they have a very different pitch and it isn't always consistent or the same during a ride. Maybe a varying and deeper pitch. The hub seems to be more noisy until it warms up but that could be my imagination. I definitely can't detect any motor noise apart from the whine. No clunking.

I was looking up some hub noise descriptions:
1577144400605.png


At about 1:58 of this video, the hub sounds a bit like a washing machine - but relatively quiet still:

My Haibike isn't this loud but still pretty loud:
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
Well, I went out yesterday with our local CJBC (Central Jersey Bicycle Club) https://cjbc.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?sl=1506243560
and it was the 1st 'long tern' 19+ mile "test" of my new $6k bike.
Overall, very happy with performance, experience....but (not to be a negative nellie) LOTS of grunts and groans and noises and swish, noises from the motor. Also, shifting was a bit hard, as previously described.
Did another 12 miles today, same crap.
Nice weather (for NJ), gonna do more time tomorrow, onwards, and Friday another bike club run.
After the 1st of the year and a few 100 miles, I'll consider complaining, as my expectations have not been satisfied......so far
Nothing out of the ordinary with you or @Rob NJ and your new bikes. It is perfectly normal for bike to need adjustment and tuning after you start riding it, cables have an initial stretch that always need to be taken up. At times a faulty component shows itself either by feel or noise, sometime right away and sometimes after a few rides. A good shop looks after their customers, making those initial and subsequent tweaks and, at times, replacing components that arrived with issues. The time to gripe and complain is after noises, difficulties and unusual resistance has been brought to their attention and they fail to correct it. Give them a chance to make it right. Assume that's what they will do. Several steps remain before it's time to hold feet to the fire.
 

GuruUno

Active Member
Unfortunately, without creating BAD VIBES AND DISTURBANCES (BVD'S), I have to disagree.
Bottom line: If I buy ANYTHING NEW, it should not have to go through trials and tribulations. Period.
That's what R&D, trial, BETA, etc. is all about.
I am not the "guneia pig". I am not the beta tester. I am not the person to test the sale-able product.
Sorry to be so abrupt.
 

Rob NJ

Active Member
Nothing out of the ordinary with you or @Rob NJ and your new bikes. It is perfectly normal for bike to need adjustment and tuning after you start riding it, cables have an initial stretch that always need to be taken up. At times a faulty component shows itself either by feel or noise, sometime right away and sometimes after a few rides. A good shop looks after their customers, making those initial and subsequent tweaks and, at times, replacing components that arrived with issues. The time to gripe and complain is after noises, difficulties and unusual resistance has been brought to their attention and they fail to correct it. Give them a chance to make it right. Assume that's what they will do. Several steps remain before it's time to hold feet to the fire.
Hi Alaskan,

Totally agree! Need to give time for the LBS to make it right. So far, they have been great, which is why I bought it there and not by mail order ;-). Posted yesterday that they had adjusted and that it was now time for me to get several hundred miles on the bike. Will do that over the next several weeks as make our way to Florida for a few weeks. So let's see.

I was very happy (loved, loved, loved) my SuperCommuter 8+. Really was a great bike, and enjoyed it immensely. This is the "new and improved version", and perhaps I am wrong to use my SC as a yardstick, but it is tough not to do that. Also, I have my wife's SC sitting right next to it. So I do not have to rely on sometimes faulty memory (oh, the shifting is much harder), I can reach my hand across and try both together. Or take the SC out for a ride and see the difference.

So, again, you are totally right. Next step is to put my butt in the seat, and some miles on the road. Learn the finer points of the bike, and enjoy it. That is my goal over the next month. Honestly, it really is a sweet looking ride and a great package. Thanks for your perspective.
 

GuruUno

Active Member
Agree. But does everyone really think a product should be delivered for use to the consumer with the plethora of issues, complaints, concerns, problems, deficiencies, and on and on?
Sure, nice bike, sure technically “supposed” to be the new, improved model over the SC, but QC? Assembly is what? Wham, bam slam slap it together and just let the purchaser be alert and on the lookout for these types of issue?
Again, nice bike.....but I shudder to think of the whole big picture.
Is it a quality control issue? Design? Laziness? Consumer acceptance of sub-standard practices and allowance of manufacturers to get away with things and only oil the squeaky wheel and put out the BIG fires?
Believe me. I’ve researched the hell out of available competition (e-bikes). To ME it seems like any choice will be a gamble. Read the forums. Look at all the other manufacturers. Are these type of problems only a Trek problem? How about Yamaha, Brose, Specialized, R&M, Giant?
I expect any purchase to meet my needs, requirements and expectations, otherwise it potentially is a lemon. Works for lots of other products.
I still have the swish, swoosh while peddling sounding like the agitator in a washing machine.
Also, separate post on smartphone hub placement of phone interferes with volume button.
What will be next?
Who on Earth were the testers before these models went to production?
 

Rob NJ

Active Member
Agree. But does everyone really think a product should be delivered for use to the consumer with the plethora of issues, complaints, concerns, problems, deficiencies, and on and on?
Sure, nice bike, sure technically “supposed” to be the new, improved model over the SC, but QC? Assembly is what? Wham, bam slam slap it together and just let the purchaser be alert and on the lookout for these types of issue?
Again, nice bike.....but I shudder to think of the whole big picture.
Is it a quality control issue? Design? Laziness? Consumer acceptance of sub-standard practices and allowance of manufacturers to get away with things and only oil the squeaky wheel and put out the BIG fires?
Believe me. I’ve researched the hell out of available competition (e-bikes). To ME it seems like any choice will be a gamble. Read the forums. Look at all the other manufacturers. Are these type of problems only a Trek problem? How about Yamaha, Brose, Specialized, R&M, Giant?
I expect any purchase to meet my needs, requirements and expectations, otherwise it potentially is a lemon. Works for lots of other products.
I still have the swish, swoosh while peddling sounding like the agitator in a washing machine.
Also, separate post on smartphone hub placement of phone interferes with volume button.
What will be next?
Who on Earth were the testers before these models went to production?
Hi GuruUno,

Understand your frustration. Especially when you owned a SC like me. I also scanned the web for info on the Shimano shifter. There are comments on it being tighter and crisper, which some people like and some do not (in the MTB forums). I am going to ride mine for a month and see how it goes. I am confident that if there is an issue, then it will be fixed. I do not feel like I have been left hanging right now. I want more time on the bike to get used to it, and to better articulate the any problems to the LBS and Trek. We live in a great time when I can video, photo, and clearly state what is happening. That is my goal now. Will let you know what I find out!
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
Why don’t you guys just have that shifter change with an Slx or Xt or other one ?! On The bike shops expense.

It must be a Very thick/tight spring inside of it , if it can be opened , it could be fixed.
 

GuruUno

Active Member
Food for thought. My freaking thumb after 2 days and 30+ miles feels like it's broken, even with a thumb and wrist brace, 4 Advils and a double single malt scotch. Pain.
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
They should recall all the Allant ebikes.

I read that the battery can easily fell out from the downtube due to the internal locking mechanism not being properly adjusted and then the Major issue with the shifter.

6k is a lot of $ to not receive perfection in every area on an ebike.