My 2017 Brose Motor, SLOW as molasses, SAD, such a good looking bike..

Goodair

Member
Just bought a brand new 2017 Bulls FS2 27.5 Plus with the Brose Motor, went riding with my buddies, they were riding a Bosch and Yamaha, I got dropped big time...When we ride conventional bikes, we ride at the same pace, but on my new bike, I was about 20% slower. I have researched that there might be a possible software solution, has anyone completed their update? Please let me know how I can get this moving......
 

RoadWrinkle

Active Member
Had the same experience, a cadence sensor alone makes you work a bit harder than a torque sensor PAS. Also, the internal belt in the brose motor adds to the natural 'rider' feel they where going for by design, but some speculation about this requiring a conservative motor regime for reliability over performance. Anyone, after testing the big three mid drive motors, would notice the Brose system has less available power. Obviously they have the larger battery range. Boils down to what riders want from their ebike: more bike, or more 'e'.
 
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Goodair

Member
Getting the firmware update soon, I hoping that it will make it a little faster. The motor mapping is dreadful, on grades up to 10% its fine,,,,anything over 10%, the torque is done, the motor stops providing assist, this is evident on long climbs over 10%, you really have to work hard riding the Brose, if I turned down the Bosch and Yamaha, I would get the same run time with reduce power. Therefore, their claim that it runs longer is not really an advantage over others.
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Just bought a brand new 2017 Bulls FS2 27.5 Plus with the Brose Motor, went riding with my buddies, they were riding a Bosch and Yamaha, I got dropped big time...When we ride conventional bikes, we ride at the same pace, but on my new bike, I was about 20% slower. I have researched that there might be a possible software solution, has anyone completed their update? Please let me know how I can get this moving......
The 2017 Bulls FS2 27.5 is rated at 250 watts and 20 mph speed limit. Even if you dial it to sport mode, the max power is still 250 watts continues. Different makes of Ebikes have variations on how they program the power output from torque input, cadence input, etc, and then translate it to power application. Some have more peak values way above the rated nominal values and the duration of that peak values also varies. Other factors include the programming on how quickly is the power being ramped up to the peak limit at start up or after shifting. It looks like Bosch and Yamaha dialed their products to give the riders a SUBJECTIVELY more satisfying experience.

So yes, an upgraded program/software will help, especially that Bulls has both Bosch and Yamaha as its main competitor. Understandably, Bulls will also program their products to compete in performance. It's too big a stake for Bulls to ignore that shortcoming.

Interestingly, the newer models have 4 levels of assist in contrast to 3 on the older ones.
 
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SuperGoop

Active Member
Getting the firmware update soon, I hoping that it will make it a little faster. The motor mapping is dreadful, on grades up to 10% its fine,,,,anything over 10%, the torque is done, the motor stops providing assist, this is evident on long climbs over 10%, you really have to work hard riding the Brose, if I turned down the Bosch and Yamaha, I would get the same run time with reduce power. Therefore, their claim that it runs longer is not really an advantage over others.
Perhaps you can share some "Before-and-after" data. Find some way to capture your "Before" experience *objectively*, maybe with a stopwatch, or record the peak wattage, etc. And then do the same after your firmware update. It will be interesting to compare the firmware differences with real data (not just subjectively).
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
My fs3 estream is being firmware updated today (dropped it off yesterday). If I remember I'll update the thread when I get a chance as well!
 

Mikey

New Member
My fs3 estream is being firmware updated today (dropped it off yesterday). If I remember I'll update the thread when I get a chance as well!

Is BullsUSA footing the bill for this flash? I bought my FS3 from Motostrano and I was told that if there's any warranty work, the parts will be replaced but I'd have to pay for labor. I'm assuming if I want my bike flashed to the current software, I'd have to pay for it.

This is my first time delving into commercial e-bike. Do all the other big companies make you pay for labor on warranty work? I'm seriously regretting not going with Specialized bike at this point. I never had to spend a dime on regular specialized bike warranty work, I'm assuming that it's the same for their e-bike.
 
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JamesT

New Member
I have a BULLS 2017 E STREAM EVO 45 FS 27 28 MPH. I completely agree. Going uphills over anything 10 degrees sucks big time. There is no power. I never tested any Haibikes to see if there
was a difference. I love the stealth and everything else about the bike, but it is seriously under powered. $5100 is a lot of money for this level of performance.
 

Goodair

Member
I have a BULLS 2017 E STREAM EVO 45 FS 27 28 MPH. I completely agree. Going uphills over anything 10 degrees sucks big time. There is no power. I never tested any Haibikes to see if there
was a difference. I love the stealth and everything else about the bike, but it is seriously under powered. $5100 is a lot of money for this level of performance.
$5100, thats 1/4 of Toyota Prius.... Your motor is 350watt vs my is at 250watt, you would think it can handle a little more than 10% grade. I heard the new Shimano 8000 motor is the one to buy, might sell my bike to wait for that... Its on the Focus E Jam2 in Europe, Bulls has a 2018 version with Di2 coming, can't wait to see it at Interbike...
 

Alphbetadog

Active Member
I have both a Bulls with Brose motor emtb, and a Haibike Bosch CX powered emtb and I prefer the slightly more subtle power delivery yet just as powerful if not more Brose motor. Plus the Brose is almost silent compared to the racket the Bosch motor makes in the higher power settings.
 

JamesT

New Member
Yes, my Bulls is totally quiet, stealthy and beautiful. However, I would not buy one again.
Maybe I'd buy this. Less money and more performance. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
 

MLB

Well-Known Member
NO, and PAS only does NOT make you work harder than a torque sensor equiped bike. Just the opposite.
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
Just bought a brand new 2017 Bulls FS2 27.5 Plus with the Brose Motor, went riding with my buddies, they were riding a Bosch and Yamaha, I got dropped big time...When we ride conventional bikes, we ride at the same pace, but on my new bike, I was about 20% slower. I have researched that there might be a possible software solution, has anyone completed their update? Please let me know how I can get this moving......

This is really a big disappointment to hear about these bikes. I was under the impression that the Brose 250w was at the leader of the pack with overall performance, etc. Perhaps Bulls needs to step up and consider making some changes to get better optimum performance. Sorry to hear you are considering selling your brand new bike after all of the hassles. That really sucks! Hope you have better luck finding a better motor with your next purchase. Happy shopping! LOL
 

Peter Polling

New Member
I own a Bulls with Brose, and my wife just got a Flyer with Panasonic. Technical comparisy is equal: both HS-bikes, Both mid-motor, both 650 Wh battries. Her bike wins almost every contest: more power, higher speed at lower support, the Bulls/Brose only wins at max-speed 9over 40). I was very surprised, never thought the Flyer was as good as the Bulls.
I stilll am very content with the Bulls, it meets my needs, but if I had known that the Flyer was that good, maybe we had 2 Flyers now...
 

RoadWrinkle

Active Member
Yes, my Bulls is totally quiet, stealthy and beautiful. However, I would not buy one again.
Maybe I'd buy this. Less money and more performance. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Have you had a chance to compare the ride between a Bafang bike and your BULLS? Interested in finding out how different the two PAS systems feel. A throttled 1000w/52v/30amp system would address any concerns about power for larger riders, but is that overkill for an ebike? If the low watt bikes produced today are too much like classic bicycles in terms of available power, are the 1000w+ bikes too much like electric mopeds?