My Atom Arrived - Not Quite As Expected/Ordered

TomD

Well-Known Member
You are hung up on them accepting a return as if it were a favor. I'd like to point out they have to give me my money back for this to even be remotely accurate. As of right now accepting the return and keeping the money is akin to something else.
No, I'm not hung up on it, but outside the credit card dispute window you really don't have much leverage beyond taking them to court, and even there good luck getting your money if they go under. Just saying they did do you a favor in the sense they were willing to work with you and take the bike back. I've seen much worse horror stories from companies in normal times. Once they have your money and you have no leverage you are f-ed. Even "good" companies will f you over beyond the return period. I have a pixel 6 pro from google that is garbage, absolutely hate it, and they refuse to take a return because I missed the return window because could never get a hold of their return department as their CS lines were flooded for a month after release (like I'd be ~77th in line every time I called, not exaggerating, waiting hours, only to get disconnected by call drop). I gave up and thought I could return it as a gift over the holidays but google has this "gotcha" that you have to specify gift at time of purchase or it can't be returned as a gift. So yes, consider yourself fortunate that they took it back. At least give them that.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
You really think they want to do that? Keep it real. I'm guessing they would be agreeable to giving you the bike back if you don't want to wait for a refund.
 

Shel-done

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I do not want the bike at this stage. You also miss the part where they advertised and marketed a bike as belt drive, sold and took orders as if it was a shippable/final product, to then come back stating the frame design was flawed and unable to work with a belt drive. That is bait and switching. At every stage I've had to push them for compensation in some form, it was never proactively offered. They expected me to just accept the lack of a belt drive with zero compensation until I asked. They likely expected the same on the battery vs hardwired lighting.

I'll admit, Gregg was great in my interactions and I believe he tried to right their wrongs within his capability. At some point though, put yourself in my shoes and realize the WTF of this situation.

Many balls dropped. The only part where I went wrong was agreeing to continue with the order when they asked about the belt drive. I should have just walked away. Even if I had walked away, I have no way of knowing if they would have issues a refund for my canceled order. Logic dictates I'd be in the same boat with slightly less stress/time wasted having to build and then pay to repackage a bike to send back.

What I wanted more than anything was to walk away from this saying it didn't work for me but still feeling safe recommending WW to others. How could I do that now?

I've dealt with enough to justify frustration.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Hopefully you can come to a resolution in the 1:1. I do believe you will get your money back, keep the faith. I used to recommend them without hesitation, but can no longer do so without full disclosure. I will say that I have seen both sides, good and bad with this company. Recently a friend was looking to buy a Hydra. I suggested they might be better off with a Luna X2, but they felt the hydra would be a better fit size in a small frame. They ordered one of the ready to ship hydras and I got them a nice discount (minimal profit to WW but win win in terms of cash flow). Turns out the bike had too much stand over because of the 180mm fork. This was not Watt Wagons fault, yet they went above and beyond offering to send a 160mm fork and pay for a local shop to do the swap. Pretty sure they lost money on this sale, but you don't hear these stories here. I'm not discounting your pain and suffering, I'm a founder that's been waiting 2+ years for a bike, but I still believe in the company and hoping their luck turns around.
 
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Shel-done

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When you do CC dispute your money will be frozen. This means Wattwagons can not touch it. Unless Wattwagons contest the dispute. Since you have all proof the piece of s*it bike was returned. You are in the clear.
My dispute took a bit over three months.
Pushkar is going to use every stall tactics to not refund your money. Unless you dispute, My bank has back log of disputes but I got my money secured in my account. All $7000 of it and not even get charged for cancellation fees.
Don't fall for Tom's 1on 1 s*it.

I'm chasing at both ends; dispute has been filed with my card issuing bank and while I await their next steps I'm hoping WW can pull through with the actual refund.

I'll keep trying to get WW to issue the owed refund beforehand. The dispute can be dropped if they do.
 

loamoaf

Active Member
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USA
@Shel-done if you have to get your money back via CC dispute and WW does not issue a proper refund like they are obligated to do, I highly recommend filing a complain with the FTC's CPB. People have lives to live and no business should get away with jerking people around like this. Everybody who's had to get their money back via CC dispute should file a complaint, I'm sure enough times and banks will flag WW with whatever internal systems they have for identifying this kind of behavior.
 

Shel-done

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Final Update: Recovered funds via dispute process with my bank. Never received a refund from WW despite their promises. I believe WW had intentions of issuing a refund, something must have changed or their business/financials weren't sound and thus a refund was never issued. The lack of replies to explain the situation and keep me in the loop are inexcusable and certainly fall into a scam pattern (take the money and run). They weren't scamming me, to be clear, I just don't have communications that would give me any other insight as to what was happening with my refund.

So despite having some positive interactions with a single employee at Wattwagons, overall I recommend shopping elsewhere from a reputable and established company with a proven track record. Only give this company money if using a credit card and willing to lose that money or wait indefinitely with great patience for their lack of communication skills.
 
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TomD

Well-Known Member
Good to hear you got your funds back. In some regards I think you should give them some credit for being willing to take the bike back. Seems they were trying to do the right thing and got caught in a cash flow situation. No excuse for not responding back to you but I really think your comments are a bit much to call them a scam. If they really wanted to scam you they never would have offered to take the bike back and would have told you to pound sand.
 

Shel-done

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Good to hear you got your funds back. In some regards I think you should give them some credit for being willing to take the bike back. Seems they were trying to do the right thing and got caught in a cash flow situation. No excuse for not responding back to you but I really think your comments are a bit much to call them a scam. If they really wanted to scam you they never would have offered to take the bike back and would have told you to pound sand.

I'm glad this is over, just wish it was amicable vs. dispute process as I wanted to maintain them as a potential avenue for future purchases (initially). By no means am I calling them a scam, just that actions (or lack there of) were that of a scammers patterns. You are correct though, they tried to make things right and I am grateful for their efforts up to the point when communication ceased. Wishing them the best of luck weathering whatever storms they may be facing and reaching a stable state of business. They could have avoided all of my negativity with continued communications. Once that dried up I got pretty sour, admittedly. You can see my comments in this thread grow more and more sour as time + lack of communication unfolded.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Oh, and your comments about the crowdsourcing project simply aren't correct. Where did you read that founders never heard back from the company? I can assure you that's not the case being a participant.
 

Shel-done

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Oh, and your comments about the crowdsourcing project simply aren't correct. Where did you read that founders never heard back from the company? I can assure you that's not the case being a participant.

I removed that part after reading more detail from Pushkar in that legal thread (before you posted your reply). What I meant was a comparison to my experience and that of a kickstarter campaign. I have little knowledge of the founder situation. From my experience , the product sold on their site (Atom) appeared fully fleshed out meaning it had been tested and was a final product with detailed specs. That wasn't necessarily the case though, which is akin to how a Kickstarter campaign shows off a concept product though the final product may vary. The continued comparison would be me buying into the "concept" and having my money tied up with no guarantees of final product matching the concept or having access to returns/refunds - the risk factor of crowdfunding.

Again though, I removed that comment and am happy to remove this explanation if you want to remove yours too.
 

Shel-done

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Unfortunately the saga continues. WW replied to the dispute so I'm submitting a rebuttal. Given I have proof of them accepting a return, promising a refund and tracking info for everything, I should be fine. It's just an annoying and painstaking process to get what should be a simple refund for a return.
 

Cuz Vinny

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately the saga continues. WW replied to the dispute so I'm submitting a rebuttal. Given I have proof of them accepting a return, promising a refund and tracking info for everything, I should be fine. It's just an annoying and painstaking process to get what should be a simple refund for a return.
What happened to the bike? You sent it back but what is WW doing with it?
 

Shel-done

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What happened to the bike? You sent it back but what is WW doing with it?

No clue what they are doing with it. I presume trying to resell/have resold it or using it as a demo bike or something. Didn't think to ask them and am no longer receiving replies from their company, unfortunately.