My Falco 750 W HX motor kit

bareyb

Active Member
Thanks. I just got it home and I'm ready to take it out. Fingers crossed... :)
Update: Took it to the Gym and it works really well. Sometimes... Other times it seems like it's not helping much at all even in +5 mode. I think it's requiring too much torque from the rider before it kicks in, or possibly I'm just expecting too much. If I put it into Turbo Mode it's great.

I have a couple of Questions if you wouldn't mind. It's such a relief to know someone who actually has one of these! There is no manual for these anywhere... :

• Do you have to have it in Turbo mode to get to 28 mph? Motor seems to turn off much sooner without that Mode. Same goes for the Throttle. Cuts off at 20 unless in Turbo Mode...
• Is there any problem with just leaving it in Turbo Mode all the time?
• Is there a way to see the level of charge remaining on the 36V Battery on the LCD display?
• How does one "lock" the motor wirelessly (so the little Lock icon appears on the LCD display)?
• Is there a User Manual for this thing somewhere? It came with absolutely no documentation at all.
 
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Mike leroy

Active Member
Well, if you put it on a higher setting on a true 10% slope (10ft rise per 100 distance, right?) and pedal hard with it, I'm guessing maybe 10-13 mph, but that is just a rough guess. I checked Google elevation gain on the steepest hill in our city (Carnahan Rd) and it is 10% exactly for about 1/2 mile (between about 900 S and 1700 S). I should go try it sometime and see what it will do speed-wise. Maybe I'll do that in the next few days when I ride and let you know. As far as motor overheating, I would maybe cut back the assist to a little lower setting on really hot days just to be sure. But you could just try it at the highest setting and if the motor gets too hot it will shut down before damage occurs.

One other thing- I've studied the available battery chemistries a bit and it seems like the Lithium Manganese (LiMn) are the safest and best ones, and they happen to be a lot lighter per energy than the more common Lipo's. Lipo (Lithium Poly Iron Phosphate I think) are cheaper and are rated to give more total cycles per life than the LiMn but are heavier and potentially not as safe. When you would be stressing the battery pretty hard on hot days on that hill I would really consider going with the safer chemistry, just to drastically reduce the chance of any kind of overheating and battery fire. Most likely with a good quality motor and controller the motor would shutdown before the battery got to that critical point, but it would just give you extra insurance against ever having something catastrophic happen out there. Falco's batteries are all LiMn for this reason but you can get LiMn from other manufacturers as well.
Wow! The hills are almost identical grade. My hill is an extinct volcano that eroded into a canyon. We have some small cliffs along one side. Deer feed along the grassy hillsides. Mountain lions hunt the deer.

I would greatly appreciate your help. The salesperson recommended a Falco, too. I will research the battery tech. Battery, not motor, seems to be the major issue.

How much of a difference exists between Falco BMS and the highest quality competitor?
Who makes the best LiMn battery? Samsung, Panasonic?
Which controller or complete bike system do you recommend ?

I run 2 miles to the store. I carry 30+ pounds food back up the hill. I weigh about 175. I want to get rid of my gas burning car. I am willing put the bike on the bus rack, when necessary.
 

James-Spokane

New Member
Update: Took it to the Gym and it works really well. Sometimes... Other times it seems like it's not helping much at all even in +5 mode. I think it's requiring too much torque from the rider before it kicks in, or possibly I'm just expecting too much. If I put it into Turbo Mode it's great.

Questions:

• Do you have to have it in Turbo mode to get to 28 mph? Motor seems to turn off much sooner without that Mode.
• Does the Throttle cut off at 20 mph unless you are in Turbo Mode?
• Is there a way to see the level of charge remaining on the 36V Battery on the LCD display?
• Does the LCD display have anything other than ODOMETER? I thought there was supposed to be a clock, but the Mode button doesn't do anything except search for the Motor if I press it.
• Is there a User Manual for this thing somewhere? It came with absolutely no documentation at all.
User manuals need to be downloaded from the Falco website or email them to ask. I think it's falco e motors.com or something close, google it.

It sounds like you need to experiment with the Torque offset values needed for your bike (these can be changed by downloading the free software from Falco and connecting wirelessly to your motor from your computer and changing them, there are You Tube videos on how to). My ideal setting ended up being 7, where it ran really smooth and responsive. You might try 5 and then 7, or something less than 5. I had the exact same problem as you with the factory setting which I think was 0. You don't need Turbo mode really to get up to fast speeds, I never use it, but it might help some. You need to go to "off road" or "cruise" mode so motor doesn't cut out above 20mph. You do this by pressing the + and - at the same time for a second or so, if you do it right you'll see the "Cruise" indicator go on or off (away). You want to turn it off and then back on again. Then you will have assist above 20 mph. Throttle and torque sensor will both cut out at 20mph if the "Cruise" mode (no speed limit) is not set as I described. I hope you purchased the "Off Road" Version of display, otherwise you're stuck with that speed limit.

Another setting is Max TS value. If that is set too high, it is going to require you to put a fair amount of effort in before the motor kicks in. So, if the above does not fix, try lowering that value.

On mine, the volts gives you an idea of how much you have left. Mine is 48 V but I'm guessing on yours when you get to around 25 or so left you're empty or close to empty. But you'll learn from experience. My display has a clock too and several others things too, but the display is very difficult to learn out how to use unless you use the instructions. Download those from Falco, or ask them where to get.

Once you get it all set right, you'll love it, but you might have to do a little bit of work to get it all set right.
 

bareyb

Active Member
You need to go to "off road" or "cruise" mode so motor doesn't cut out above 20mph. You do this by pressing the + and - at the same time for a second or so, if you do it right you'll see the "Cruise" indicator go on or off (away). You want to turn it off and then back on again. Then you will have assist above 20 mph. Throttle and torque sensor will both cut out at 20mph if the "Cruise" mode (no speed limit) is not set as I described. I hope you purchased the "Off Road" Version of display, otherwise you're stuck with that speed limit.
Thank you so much for the advice. That's very helpful. FWIW, I did order the off road version, but my display seems to be stuck in "Cruise" mode. I cannot turn it off or on. It's just there. If you say turning it off and on is the way to activate it, then that's probably my problem. If I hold the +/- buttons down they don't do anything. It just stays in Cruise mode... I may be doing it for too long or something like that. I'll try it again. Thanks!

Side question: For tweaking the settings... Do you need the Falco USB Dongle to connect to the software?
 

James-Spokane

New Member
Thank you so much for the advice. That's very helpful. FWIW, I did order the off road version, but my display seems to be stuck in "Cruise" mode. I cannot turn it off or on. It's just there. If you say turning it off and on is the way to activate it, then that's probably my problem. If I hold the +/- buttons down they don't do anything. It just stays in Cruise mode... I may be doing it for too long or something like that. I'll try it again. Thanks!

Side question: For tweaking the settings... Do you need the Falco USB Dongle to connect to the software?
Is the plus-minus button hooked up? Does it change the power setting up and down (1-5)? If no, they're not connected. You have to press them at the exact same time to change Cruise mode, but it only takes about a second or two for it to change. You can temporarily change the settings via wireless connection (ie. a laptop that has WIFI capability) with the USB dongle. But then you have to do it each time you turn the motor on or off. You'll need the Dongle to make your chosen settings permanent. Falco themselves helped me to do this with Teamviewer on my laptop when I was connected to my bike.
 

bareyb

Active Member
Is the plus-minus button hooked up? Does it change the power setting up and down (1-5)? If no, they're not connected. You have to press them at the exact same time to change Cruise mode, but it only takes about a second or two for it to change. You can temporarily change the settings via wireless connection (ie. a laptop that has WIFI capability) with the USB dongle. But then you have to do it each time you turn the motor on or off. You'll need the Dongle to make your chosen settings permanent. Falco themselves helped me to do this with Teamviewer on my laptop when I was connected to my bike.
No joy. I've tried pressing both buttons for one second, two seconds, ten seconds,., and it's not changing from Cruise mode no matter what I do. It does allow adjustment of the assistance level from 1-5. So it is hooked up... I may need to contact Falco. The Dealer didn't seem to know much about Cruise mode. He told me to just leave it in Turbo Mode.
 
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bareyb

Active Member
It sounds like you need to experiment with the Torque offset values needed for your bike (these can be changed by downloading the free software from Falco and connecting wirelessly to your motor from your computer and changing them
My son has a PC and it's connected to our Network, but with a Cable , not wirelessly. It does not have a WifI capability. Will it still it still be able to connect to the Motor or does it have to have a WiFi card?
 
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James-Spokane

New Member
No joy. I've tried pressing both buttons for one second, two seconds, ten seconds,., and it's not changing from Cruise mode no matter what I do. It does allow adjustment of the assistance level from 1-5. So it is hooked up... I may need to contact Falco. The Dealer didn't seem to know much about Cruise mode. He told me to just leave it in Turbo Mode.
That is strange. It almost sounds as if they made a mistake and you don't have the offroad version that can be unlocked, although they may have changed how you access "Cruise"/offroad mode. If you put it in Turbo and does it assist above 20 mph, then you're okay and that must be what turns Cruise on in your display (it is probably a newer version than mine). You'll know for sure if it does or doesn't, at least once you have your other settings right like the TS Offset value- just put it on setting 5 and ride and it should sail right through 20 mph and keep on going. If it clearly cuts out right at 20mph or lower then you probably need to contact Falco and fix that part of it. The desktop PC could work to connect, some have WIFI capability along with cable ethernet, you'll just have to check. They might even have an app for a smart phone or Ipad/tablet now for connecting to the motor wireless to adjust settings, you would have to check the Falco website or ask them though. You'll have to have the USB tongle thing anyway though to permanently update the new settings that you choose for the motor (only Falco or maybe a dealer can do that though). And once you get that you might be able to connect to the motor yourself that way for changing the settings temporarily.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
That is strange. It almost sounds as if they made a mistake and you don't have the offroad version that can be unlocked, although they may have changed how you access "Cruise"/offroad mode. If you put it in Turbo and does it assist above 20 mph, then you're okay and that must be what turns Cruise on in your display (it is probably a newer version than mine). You'll know for sure if it does or doesn't, at least once you have your other settings right like the TS Offset value- just put it on setting 5 and ride and it should sail right through 20 mph and keep on going. If it clearly cuts out right at 20mph or lower then you probably need to contact Falco and fix that part of it. The desktop PC could work to connect, some have WIFI capability along with cable ethernet, you'll just have to check. They might even have an app for a smart phone or Ipad/tablet now for connecting to the motor wireless to adjust settings, you would have to check the Falco website or ask them though. You'll have to have the USB tongle thing anyway though to permanently update the new settings that you choose for the motor (only Falco or maybe a dealer can do that though). And once you get that you might be able to connect to the motor yourself that way for changing the settings temporarily.
I'd I understand properly, it sounds like the firmware is out of date. Is there no option to check for an update? That is fundamental. You might want to request the feature from Falco. You should not have so much trouble diagnosing the problem. That is Falco 's responsibility.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
Well, if you put it on a higher setting on a true 10% slope (10ft rise per 100 distance, right?) and pedal hard with it, I'm guessing maybe 10-13 mph, but that is just a rough guess. I checked Google elevation gain on the steepest hill in our city (Carnahan Rd) and it is 10% exactly for about 1/2 mile (between about 900 S and 1700 S). I should go try it sometime and see what it will do speed-wise. Maybe I'll do that in the next few days when I ride and let you know. As far as motor overheating, I would maybe cut back the assist to a little lower setting on really hot days just to be sure. But you could just try it at the highest setting and if the motor gets too hot it will shut down before damage occurs.

One other thing- I've studied the available battery chemistries a bit and it seems like the Lithium Manganese (LiMn) are the safest and best ones, and they happen to be a lot lighter per energy than the more common Lipo's. Lipo (Lithium Poly Iron Phosphate I think) are cheaper and are rated to give more total cycles per life than the LiMn but are heavier and potentially not as safe. When you would be stressing the battery pretty hard on hot days on that hill I would really consider going with the safer chemistry, just to drastically reduce the chance of any kind of overheating and battery fire. Most likely with a good quality motor and controller the motor would shutdown before the battery got to that critical point, but it would just give you extra insurance against ever having something catastrophic happen out there. Falco's batteries are all LiMn for this reason but you can get LiMn from other manufacturers as well.
Achieving wobble speed(9mph) is key. Wobble speed is highly rider inefficient. More force is exerted laterally and balancing the bike, than is directed uphill. If you watch the pros, they push and pull on the handlebars to achieve wobble speed.

The arm technique is just as important as cadence RPM to break the wobble speed barrier.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
Would the 1000W, 80Nm go up a 10% grade faster than the 750W? What is the max speed?

Does anyone know the motor temperature at it hottest? Is it above 140F ?
 
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James-Spokane

New Member
I'd I understand properly, it sounds like the firmware is out of date. Is there no option to check for an update? That is fundamental. You might want to request the feature from Falco. You should not have so much trouble diagnosing the problem. That is Falco 's responsibility.
No it's not really out of date, but it comes with default settings that may not be optimum for every bike, like TS offset value which allows you to adjust for the angle of your dropout in order to calibrate the TS to be most responsive. Thankfully, you can actually update all the settings via a computer. The only problem is that it goes back to the default when you turn off the motor, at least that is the way it was with my version bought in June '14, and to override the default you have to have them put in the firmware (at least that is how it was explained to me). The owner of Falco did it for me over the computer since I had the US B. Yes, it is a pain to have to do that and annoying to many people and they should have come up with a solution by now (and maybe they have, my experience was earlier last year). Ideally the dealers would be trained on how to do that, or they would just make it so you can override the settings permanently from your computer (and maybe they have by now, I am only saying how it was last year when I bought mine). I know they are constantly developing new things and will have an app for your phone that will be able to replace the display.

But the cruise/off road issue sounds like a mistake to me with you getting the wrong display (the offroad/no speed limit version costs roughly $100-$150 more than the regular version with a locked speed limit even though they look exactly the same), but then again maybe they have updated the display in the way you access the no speed limit feature by incorporating it into Turbo. You need to just email Falco and ask for the instructions for YOUR display exactly and tell your problem. They will email them to you. Be persistent, in the end when you get it setup right and get used to it you'll love it.
 

bareyb

Active Member
Thanks everyone for the help and guidance. Rakesh emailed me back and said he'd like to speak with me on the phone. Unfortunately it didn't happen today...

I emailed back and asked if we could arrange a time for that to happen tomorrow. I may need to buy Parallels and Windows for my Mac, but I'm willing to do that if I need to. I just don't know if it works with Windows 8.1 or not. Asked him via email if we could set up a phone call for tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. Hopefully we can connect and get this worked out. I have a feeling it's something simple like the wrong Console or just needs to have the settings tweaked.

Notes: I took the bike out again today for additional testing and just left it in Turbo Mode. It works about how I would expect in Turbo mode. Assistance is there up to 28 mph. In non Turbo mode it provides very little assistance in pedelec mode past 22 mph, and stops providing any assistance at all in Throttle mode past 20 mph. Turbo mode seems to really burn through the battery though. I burned through about half the capacity in 6 miles.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
Thanks everyone for the help and guidance. Rakesh emailed me back and said he'd like to speak with me on the phone. Unfortunately it didn't happen today...

I emailed back and asked if we could arrange a time for that to happen tomorrow. I may need to buy Parallels and Windows for my Mac, but I'm willing to do that if I need to. I just don't know if it works with Windows 8.1 or not. Asked him via email if we could set up a phone call for tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. Hopefully we can connect and get this worked out. I have a feeling it's something simple like the wrong Console or just needs to have the settings tweaked.

Notes: I took the bike out again today for additional testing and just left it in Turbo Mode. It works about how I would expect in Turbo mode. Assistance is there up to 28 mph. In non Turbo mode it provides very little assistance in pedelec mode past 22 mph, and stops providing any assistance at all in Throttle mode past 20 mph. Turbo mode seems to really burn through the battery though. I burned through about half the capacity in 6 miles.
Yes, he also emailed me for my phone number. I am an iOS developer. I develop iPhone apps on my mac mini. I also have a Windows 7 machine. I would be very wary of Windows 8. What a piece of crap. Make extra sure beforehand.

Can you get a copy of Windows 7 and dual boot it on your mac without parallels? I have not tried it or know how to do it. I do not see why you could not dual boot on an intel machine. Or do you need parallels to dual boot?

You should be able to create a second partition on your Mac . The idea is to install Windows in the second partition. When the Mac is turned on, you pick Mac or windows

Does Rakesh require Windows 8?
 
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bareyb

Active Member
Yes, he also emailed me for my phone number. I am an iOS developer. I develop iPhone apps on my mac mini. I also have a Windows 7 machine. I would be very wary of Windows 8. What a piece of crap. Make extra sure beforehand.

Can you get a copy of Windows 7 and dual boot it on your mac without parallels? I have not tried it or know how to do it. I do not see why you could not dual boot on an intel machine. Or do you need parallels to dual boot?

You should be able to create a second partition on your Mac . The idea is to install Windows in the second partition. When the Mac is turned on, you pick Mac or windows

Does Rakesh require Windows 8?
Probably not. I was thinking of getting Win 8 mainly because that's what my son has on his PC. I can buy Parallels with Windows 7 as well if that would work better. Sounds like it works fine on your rig so maybe that's the way to go. I'll look into Boot Camp and see if that's any easier than Parallels. I'd heard Parallels works a little Either way, I'm gonna need to purchase some version of Windows it sounds like.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
Probably not. I was thinking of getting Win 8 mainly because that's what my son has on his PC. I can buy Parallels with Windows 7 as well if that would work better. Sounds like it works fine on your rig so maybe that's the way to go. I'll look into Boot Camp and see if that's any easier than Parallels. I'd heard Parallels works a little Either way, I'm gonna need to purchase some version of Windows it sounds like.
I wish I could tell you exactly what to do. All I know is that Windows 8 is a mess. Not real benefit over Windows 7. Windows 8 could give you real headaches, so take the extra time to be sure.
 

bareyb

Active Member
Update: Just spoke with Rakesh. Apparently, the "Cruise" enabled Consoles now stay in Cruise mode and you don't have to toggle them off and on anymore. He also said that it's normal for the Throttle to stop at 20 MPH. So the problem with the Pedelec is definitely in the settings and he assures me it can be fixed.

Next step is to purchase the USB Dongle from them so we can update my settings. I'm told we only need a PC and not WiFi for it to connect. I guess PC's have ANT+ built-in natively or something.

Also, he sent over this updated "manual" for the USA equipped models. This is what I've been looking for, so I thought I'd post it here as well if anyone else needs it.
 

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Mike leroy

Active Member
Update: Just spoke with Rakesh. Apparently, the "Cruise" enabled Consoles now stay in Cruise mode and you don't have to toggle them off and on anymore. He also said that it's normal for the Throttle to stop at 20 MPH. So the problem with the Pedelec is definitely in the settings and he assures me it can be fixed.

Next step is to purchase the USB Dongle from them so we can update my settings. I'm told we only need a PC and not WiFi for it to connect. I guess PC's have ANT+ built-in natively or something.

Also, he sent over this updated "manual" for the USA equipped models. This is what I've been looking for, so I thought I'd post it here as well if anyone else needs it.
I just acquainted myself with Ant+. I would be very surprised if it is not installed on your Mac. My guess is the worst case is downloadign the device drivers and running from terminal. I doubt you need to do anything more than to see If your Mac has the networking chip.

I am sure you could buy a cheap networking dongle for $20, if your machine lacks the hardware. It is nothing more than Bluetooth-like functionality to connect to devices like heart rate monitors.
 

bareyb

Active Member
I just acquainted myself with Ant+. I would be very surprised if it is not installed on your Mac. My guess is the worst case is downloadign the device drivers and running from terminal. I doubt you need to do anything more than to see If your Mac has the networking chip.

I am sure you could buy a cheap networking dongle for $20, if your machine lacks the hardware. It is nothing more than Bluetooth-like functionality to connect to devices like heart rate monitors.
I can certainly try it on the Mac when it gets here. My son has a PC though, so if all else fails I can use that. Bike just has to be within ten feet of it. Overall I'm feeling encouraged. Turbo mode is a bit much and I'm happy to hear I can fine tune this to somewhere in between where it is now, and where Turbo mode is. Rakesh said Turbo mode drastically narrows the range in which the motor will assist you, In other words, very little input from the rider = a LOT of input from the motor. I'm gonna brush up on the different parameters and what they do. He sent me all that information too. Sounds like the next time we talk we'll probably get all this sorted out.