My new bike: 2020 Cube Kathmandu Hybrid Pro 625

skritikos

Member
Please, please, please give me the name of that online store! Many thanks in advance!
All sizes in stock right now in Grey:


An XS and S in Red:

 

skritikos

Member
OK! So you say MHW are reliable and you trust them. That's all I wanted to know. Many thanks!
They are a very big and respected shop that is a Cube dealer too. Nothing to be afraid of!
I was in communication with them for a few weeks and they answered all questions promptly in excellent English too.
This is not what you see with many German shops :)
 

BlackHand

Active Member
The engine is a current one. The mid engine from Bosch. It belongs to Generation 3 and was first out in the market in 2019.
It is based on the Active Line Plus but it is stronger and punchier but in a good way. I have tried all 3 (Active Line Plus, Performance Line and CX) before deciding on my new and first eBike
Thanks for posting your thoughts on the Performance Line Cruise - I hadn't seen anyone who had actually ridden that yet.

I'm surprised the Cruise felt zippier to you. Bosch specs it as lower torque and lower assist than both the gen 4 Performance Line Speed and Performance Line CX.

BTW if you just say Performance Line a lot of us may assume you mean the Speed or CX version as the Cruise variant is so new and rare. I understand Bosch trying to segment their line better, but I have a feeling it's more about minor tuning differences than any real difference in capabilities between the motors
 

skritikos

Member
Thanks for posting your thoughts on the Performance Line Cruise - I hadn't seen anyone who had actually ridden that yet.

I'm surprised the Cruise felt zippier to you. Bosch specs it as lower torque and lower assist than both the gen 4 Performance Line Speed and Performance Line CX.

BTW if you just say Performance Line a lot of us may assume you mean the Speed or CX version as the Cruise variant is so new and rare. I understand Bosch trying to segment their line better, but I have a feeling it's more about minor tuning differences than any real difference in capabilities between the motors
I said punchier than the Active Line Plus which in ECO is very mild and soft starting. My initial target was to get a bike with the Active Line Plus motor but this year those are speced with very budget components. And I did not want to go down the constant upgrading road. Been there, done that, as I'm riding good quality bikes for more than 25 years now.

After enough ebike tests this summer I think that the Performance Line Cruise is the hidden gem of Bosch for trekking/touring. Its very quiet, very strong and with an increased battery range compared to the CX.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
I think that the Performance Line Cruise is the hidden gem of Bosch for trekking/touring. Its very quiet, very strong and with an increased battery range compared to the CX.
Thank you for your assessment. If you say the motor is very quiet, that would be a very important factor when considering a new Cube purchase. Additionally, my friend lives in the flatland and no climber is really needed here but the extended range would be a great welcome!
 

Akrotiri

Active Member
1. what I've learned for the Cube dealer is that website indicating weights are totally off in the last years. Other times much higher, other times lower.
If this helps you, the full box with my 2021 EXC 625 in XL size (the bigger the make!) weights 24 kilos on DHL scale!

2. Performance Line motors are speedy enough for everything. I had extensively tested everything many times and for long time every time. The support speed limit in Europe is 25km/h and in many times I was actually riding over the limit without any crazy effort. Check the spec comparison on Bosch site that I've sent earlier.

3. Both lines are almost identical in the last years and Cube knows that. This is the reason the split the motor assignments on both this year again. The frame, the quality, the specs are the same and very high for each and every model. Actually the frame geometry of the Touring models is better suited to touring and long rides (almost 2cm longer seatstays! better angles, a bit shorter reach).
The support speed limit is 45kph in Europe. It’s up to manufacturers like Bosch to get the motors certified in the countries. This certification process called L1-E1 costs a lot of money and bureaucratic bullying.

Bosch and other European manufacturers and large retailers pick and choose which countries to certify in.


Greece is one of the countries where 45kph is certified. LBS retailers often mislead or flat out lie to their customers seeking 45kph e-bikes just to push out the 25kph models that are much easier to distribute across the EU because the process is streamlined with 25kph.

The largest Trek dealer in Athens sells e-bikes that are 45kph and 25kph even in the same models like the Allant 8 and Allant8s , Allant 9 and Allant 9s. No restrictions in mountainous Greece as you know 😉

https://www.cyclist.gr/el/gia-thn-gynaika/46124-TREK-ALLANT-8S-STAGGER-2021-
010517.https://www.cyclist.gr/el/ebikes/46115-TREK-ALLANT-8S-2021-
010510.https://www.cyclist.gr/el/ebikes/46085-TREK-ALLANT-8-2021-010484.html?search_query=Trek+allant+8&results=4&cate=
 
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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
The support speed limit is 45kph in Europe. It’s up to manufacturers like Bosch to get the motors certified in the countries. This certification process called L1-E1 costs a lot of money and bureaucratic bullying.

Bosch and other European manufacturers and large retailers pick and choose which countries to certify in.


Greece is one of the countries where 45kph is certified. LBS retailers often mislead or flat out lie to their customers seeking 45kph e-bikes just to push out the 25kph models that are much easier to distribute across the EU because the process is streamlined with 25kph.

The largest Trek dealer in Athens sells e-bikes that are 45kph and 25kph even in the same models like the Allant 8 and Allant8s , Allant 9 and Allant 9s. No restrictions in mountainous Greece as you know 😉

https://www.cyclist.gr/el/gia-thn-gynaika/46124-TREK-ALLANT-8S-STAGGER-2021-
010517.https://www.cyclist.gr/el/ebikes/46115-TREK-ALLANT-8S-2021-
010510.https://www.cyclist.gr/el/ebikes/46085-TREK-ALLANT-8-2021-010484.html?search_query=Trek+allant+8&results=4&cate=
Poland also allows the 45 km/h e-bikes (L1e-B to be precise). Upsides:
1. Can ride fast
2. Commuting with traffic is typically much faster than using the complicated bike paths we have here.

Downsides:
A. Register and insure the bike, which is a painful process
B. Number plate on the bike
C. The rider has to hold a driving license (for light motorcycle or a car)
D. Wear cycling helmet (that's OK!)
E. Must not ride bike paths or lanes.

With more than one e-bike I own (two 25 km/h and one 45 km/h) I am in easy position what to ride, according to my needs.
P.S. Most of the rare 45 km/h street-legal e-bikes available here are exceptionally expensive, as the manufacturers had to provide a lot of safety features mandated by the law and go through the EU certification process. The certification is made for each individual e-bike, not for the model!

45 km/h EU e-bikes I know of and are more or less available:
  • Specialized Turbo Vado 6.0
  • Trek Allant+ S
  • Bulls E-Stream Evo 45 AM (the only L1e-B e-MTB)
  • Haibike S
 
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skritikos

Member
The support speed limit is 45kph in Europe. It’s up to manufacturers like Bosch to get the motors certified in the countries. This certification process called L1-E1 costs a lot of money and bureaucratic bullying.

Bosch and other European manufacturers and large retailers pick and choose which countries to certify in.


Greece is one of the countries where 45kph is certified. LBS retailers often mislead or flat out lie to their customers seeking 45kph e-bikes just to push out the 25kph models that are much easier to distribute across the EU because the process is streamlined with 25kph.

The largest Trek dealer in Athens sells e-bikes that are 45kph and 25kph even in the same models like the Allant 8 and Allant8s , Allant 9 and Allant 9s. No restrictions in mountainous Greece as you know 😉

https://www.cyclist.gr/el/gia-thn-gynaika/46124-TREK-ALLANT-8S-STAGGER-2021-
010517.https://www.cyclist.gr/el/ebikes/46115-TREK-ALLANT-8S-2021-
010510.https://www.cyclist.gr/el/ebikes/46085-TREK-ALLANT-8-2021-010484.html?search_query=Trek+allant+8&results=4&cate=

Is there an official link to the Greek State about this 45km/h certification? As far as I know just a few EU countries are certified and all of them around Germany (Switzerland, Germany, Austria?).
Even the latest "e-bike money-back" program that is running currently in Greece need the certification that the bike is motor supported up to the legal limit of 25km/h.
 

skritikos

Member
Poland also allows the 45 km/h e-bikes (L1e-B to be precise). Upsides:
1. Can ride fast
2. Commuting with traffic is typically much faster than using the complicated bike paths we have here.

Downsides:
A. Register and insure the bike, which is a painful process
B. Number plate on the bike
C. The rider has to hold a driving license (for light motorcycle or a car)
D. Wear cycling helmet (that's OK!)
E. Must not ride bike paths or lanes.

With more than one e-bike I own (two 25 km/h and one 45 km/h) I am in easy position what to ride, according to my needs.
P.S. Most of the rare 45 km/h street-legal e-bikes available here are exceptionally expensive, as the manufacturers had to provide a lot of safety features mandated by the law and go through the EU certification process. The certification is made for each individual e-bike, not for the model!

45 km/h EU e-bikes I know of and are more or less available:
  • Specialized Turbo Vado 6.0
  • Trek Allant+ S
  • Bulls E-Stream Evo 45 AM (the only L1e-B e-MTB)
  • Haibike S
Don't forget the very simple and elegant Cube 45km/h s-pedelec!

 

Akrotiri

Active Member
Is there an official link to the Greek State about this 45km/h certification? As far as I know just a few EU countries are certified and all of them around Germany (Switzerland, Germany, Austria?).
Even the latest "e-bike money-back" program that is running currently in Greece need the certification that the bike is motor supported up to the legal limit of 25km/
It’s buried in here amongst thousands of other regulations. I’ll look through it later on today. It can be specific retailers particularly the big ones like Trek/cyclist.gr that has certifications to sell the 45kph e-bikes like I posted earlier in the thread. https://www.yme.gr/
 

skritikos

Member
It’s buried in here amongst thousands of other regulations. I’ll look through it later on today. It can be specific retailers particularly the big ones like Trek/cyclist.gr that has certifications to sell the 45kph e-bikes like I posted earlier in the thread. https://www.yme.gr/

I'm afraid this is more complicated than that as S-Pedelecs need registration, number plate, insurance, etc. Cant imagine they can approve specific shops and not others.
In case of an accident I'm sure the opposite side lawyers will eat the S-Pedelec rider alive....
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid this is more complicated than that as S-Pedelecs need registration, number plate, insurance, etc. Cant imagine they can approve specific shops and not others.
In case of an accident I'm sure the opposite side lawyers will eat the S-Pedelec rider alive....
It is not that way, I think. We know 5 brands delivering S-Pedelecs in EU: Specialized, Trek, Haibike, Bulls, Cube. Each brand makes each S-Pedelec get the individual EU Certificate of Conformity and the VIN number (same as every moped, motorcycle or car). Each Authorized Dealer gets the authorisation from the brand to sell S-Pedelecs. So, the "approved" store is the one certified by the manufacturer.

The S-Pedelec gets the registration (so by law it is allowed in traffic). The owner insures it, so is protected against third partly liability. The rider carries their driving license. Should an accident happen, it is not any different if the accident was caused by a motorcycle or a car.

I know a thing or two about EU S-Pedelecs, friends...

 

skritikos

Member
It is not that way, I think. We know 5 brands delivering S-Pedelecs in EU: Specialized, Trek, Haibike, Bulls, Cube. Each brand makes each S-Pedelec get the individual EU Certificate of Conformity and the VIN number (same as every moped, motorcycle or car). Each Authorized Dealer gets the authorisation from the brand to sell S-Pedelecs. So, the "approved" store is the one certified by the manufacturer.

The S-Pedelec gets the registration (so by law it is allowed in traffic). The owner insures it, so is protected against third partly liability. The rider carries their driving license. Should an accident happen, it is not any different if the accident was caused by a motorcycle or a car.

I know a thing or two about EU S-Pedelecs, friends...

I will not challenge that in general as I have no experience. What I can say is that Greece almost certainly has no law to cover issuing number plates for S-Pedelecs.
So practically one will be illegal riding an unlicensed vehicle on public roads.
I cant imagine what will happen when a 30+ kg bike will crash on a pedestrian or a kid at 45km/h. No one expects a bike to be that fast. We just expect motos, cars, etc
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
I cant imagine what will happen when a 30+ kg bike will crash on a pedestrian or a kid at 45km/h. No one expects a bike to be that fast. We just expect motos, cars, etc
But that's the whole point of the S-Pedelec. It is allowed on public roads only. Same as moped, motorcycle, car. It is not a bicycle by law. A kid or a pedestrian have far higher chance to be hit by heavy, internal-combustion-engine vehicles. And they are being hit everyday.

It is one of the reason the Vado 6.0 is equipped, among others, in Supernova M99 Pro (automotive grade headlight worth US$550) or the STOP tail-light or the top of the line brakes.
 

Akrotiri

Active Member
I'm afraid this is more complicated than that as S-Pedelecs need registration, number plate, insurance, etc. Cant imagine they can approve specific shops and not others.
In case of an accident I'm sure the opposite side lawyers will eat the S-Pedelec rider alive....
Yes the insurance and registration goes with out saying. That’s why those ebikes already have license plate brackets pre-installed.
 

Akrotiri

Active Member
I will not challenge that in general as I have no experience. What I can say is that Greece almost certainly has no law to cover issuing number plates for S-Pedelecs.
So practically one will be illegal riding an unlicensed vehicle on public roads.
I cant imagine what will happen when a 30+ kg bike will crash on a pedestrian or a kid at 45km/h. No one expects a bike to be that fast. We just expect motos, cars, etc
That’s incorrect skritikos. Check the links I posted earlier in the thread to the Trek dealer in Athens who sells the 45kph e-bikes. They already have license plates brackets on the rear fender.

Everyone knows what an e-bike is basically. I live in a remote part of Greece and everyone knows what it is and many here have sondors,orbeas e-bikes. There are 3 E-bike stores here for an island of only 70k. I even saw a late model Riese and Mueller a few days ago in Town. Even the refugees from sub-Saharan Africa seem to know that my e-bike is since quite a few walked up to me during my touring breaks and asked me “ charge bike?”.

Everyone has an internet connection these days so there are no surprises on the road.
 
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